To The Moon (Steam sale finished now) Discussion

[Scorched_Cascade]

*snip*

About river

Spoiler

His girlfriend had a weird illness

She's severely autistic. It's confirmed by the part of the game where they talk about a certain psychologist who has done work in the area, that's a real psychologist famous for research into autism. The more functioning lady friend whose name I forget (but has the same disorder) talks about how she has little to no emotions and fakes it.

*reading through spoilers, remembers them all fine and well, then final one comes up...* WHAT???

Okay, I'm going to triple spoiler this one because it's insanely spoilerific

Spoiler: The subtle twist and the hints that lead me to guess it (that I can remember)

Spoiler

Spoiler

-My first clue was the coffee that the male scientist gets. He goes on and on about how there is no coffee available anywhere in the house and yet later, when you walk in on him unannounced, he has a cup of coffee. You, naturally, ask him where it's from and he gives you a really vague answer before disappearing with it. A small clue but I'm a suspicious type.

-Next up was the painkillers. The female scientist heads back to the car to get a sampling device for the roadkill. All well and good until we're treated to a scene where the male scientist is sat at a table and then suddenly thinks something and panics and runs out to the car. The whole setup is that he's remembered that there is something in the car that he doesn't want you to find. You find painkillers and your character suspects he has a pain killer addiction and confronts him over it and he is incredibly evasive. I actually started thinking at this point that maybe the painkillers were for me.

-At the same time we have the roadkill. This whole scene talks about how smell effects what goes on in the edited memories. The roadkill begins to really stink a day after they hit it. Then we get an odd little scene where the male scientist says to her about how he hopes that he never loses her because if he did then he'd end up working with the backup guy and he smells worse than the road kill. It's his worst fear. The scene is odd, the phrasing is off and the humour comes across as forced. (as in the male scientist is forcing it not the dialogue is bad)

-Then we have the ending sequence. They have a massive debate about "if you knew what the person wanted best and they didn't should you, ethically, help them?". He behaves really oddly and vehemently defends helping people against their will. She says "what's going on, this isn't like you" and we get a sense that there's an undercurrent to the dialogue, some subtle subtext, that is staring us in the face.

-The, right at the very end, they confirm this theory. Both scientists are in the real world looking at the lighthouse. They get a call about another case and she hurries off. He hesitates and waits around after she leaves. The screen flashes and the failing lifesigns warning plays while they are in the real world. The male scientist looks at his watch and looks distressed.

I really can't wait for part two because that twist was really subtle till they made it a bit blatant right at the end.

I loved To The Moon, I played it with a twelve pack of beer and finished the game and 12 pack together. Cried several times.

Then I watched "Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind" and got FURIOUS that To The Moon just blatantly ripped that movie off and turned it into an oldschool-rpg looking visual novel.

Seriously, it's almost a joke how directly they just converted that movie into a game.

Oh? Didn't know that, I might look into getting that film. Can you confirm a suspicion I have though? Read the above triple spoilered thing, in light of that would it make (meta)sense that something has been copied or does the film have the same twist?

 

[BrotherRool]

Spoiler

Pay closer attention to the ending sequence. The story directly addresses your criticism, and they change his memories in such a way that his reason for going to the moon remains intact. And he got his brother back, to boot!

But see I don#t agree with that. (I#d like to restate that it's the awesomeness of the game allowing this conversation) but to me

Spoiler

Thats not really the person he fell in love with and it devalues his life and her life to take away all the memories of the real times they had together. He never went to the moon with his wife, he went to the moon with an approximation of her, that never had the moments that they'd had.

 

[Chromatic Aberration]

Screw you, Escapist!....I need to work

Anyway, great game and in my opinion one of the shining examples of a well done plot twist. Everything that transpired before that particular scene makes sense afterwards and shows the cruel tragedy of the underlying plot. It's storywise an extremely well implemented game. However, It's sometimes far too pretentious about it's use of music, the dialogue or the actual scenes - you can tell it really wants to be a tear-jerker. Sometimes to the detriment of the actual impact. Especially with the "game"-aspects which were nothing short but annoying (I friggin hate those bloody puzzles!) or the forced quirkyiness of the male scientist, although the latter kind of turns into a patent case of fridge horror later on....

Anyway, it's worth every penny for the story twist alone.

Now for the fun part....

*reading through spoilers, remembers them all fine and well, then final one comes up...* WHAT???

Okay, I'm going to triple spoiler this one because it's insanely spoilerific

Spoiler: The subtle twist and the hints that lead me to guess it (that I can remember)

Spoiler

Spoiler

-My first clue was the coffee that the male scientist gets. He goes on and on about how there is no coffee available anywhere in the house and yet later, when you walk in on him unannounced, he has a cup of coffee. You, naturally, ask him where it's from and he gives you a really vague answer before disappearing with it. A small clue but I'm a suspicious type.

-Next up was the painkillers. The female scientist heads back to the car to get a sampling device for the roadkill. All well and good until we're treated to a scene where the male scientist is sat at a table and then suddenly thinks something and panics and runs out to the car. The whole setup is that he's remembered that there is something in the car that he doesn't want you to find. You find painkillers and your character suspects he has a pain killer addiction and confronts him over it and he is incredibly evasive. I actually started thinking at this point that maybe the painkillers were for me.

-At the same time we have the roadkill. This whole scene talks about how smell effects what goes on in the edited memories. The roadkill begins to really stink a day after they hit it. Then we get an odd little scene where the male scientist says to her about how he hopes that he never loses her because if he did then he'd end up working with the backup guy and he smells worse than the road kill. It's his worst fear. The scene is odd, the phrasing is off and the humour comes across as forced. (as in the male scientist is forcing it not the dialogue is bad)

-Then we have the ending sequence. They have a massive debate about "if you knew what the person wanted best and they didn't should you, ethically, help them?". He behaves really oddly and vehemently defends helping people against their will. She says "what's going on, this isn't like you" and we get a sense that there's an undercurrent to the dialogue, some subtle subtext, that is staring us in the face.

-The, right at the very end, they confirm this theory. Both scientists are in the real world looking at the lighthouse. They get a call about another case and she hurries off. He hesitates and waits around after she leaves. The screen flashes and the failing lifesigns warning plays while they are in the real world. The male scientist looks at his watch and looks distressed.

Spoiler: That seems like a long-shot

Might be, but I think it's far more probable that they wanted to establish that our little quirky, harmless comic-relief scientist is actually far more fucked up in the head than we all thought. His quirkyness is actually revealed to be just some defense mechanism to shield his mind from some ancient (presumably emotional) pain he still experiences. His addiction to the painkillers serves as a vent in that regard, his uncharacteristic eagerness for keeping River inside a faint sign of his inner torment and ultimately the ending as a reveal that he his indeed in pain or addicted to the painkillers. Or in other words: it's basically the House-MD-variant of character writing. And that's always fun in a fucked up, severly depressing way.

-snip-

-snip-

Spoiler: I disagree with you two

I think you both miss the most soulcrushing aspect about the story: his life and everything he had was already a lie. He never knew why he liked the things he did because he never really liked them. It was all because of the death of his brother and the subsequent madness of his mother that messed him up for good. Think about it: all of the things he liked were actually because he emulated what his brother liked. He was never the adventurous or rebellious type, while his brother was actually the one who delved into dreamworlds and yearned for something different - Escapism if you like. Thus, he basically denied himself through his whole fucking life. Worse, that emulation was exactly the reason he went on to date River in the first place: He said he wanted something different and his messed up mind drove him to her, as he didn't recall his meeting with her. River, on the other hand, did recall this scene in it's entirety and thought this was why they ultimately came together.

But it all fell apart when he told her about their meeting in high school. She realized that he never had the connection to her she thought he had and starting making the rabbits in an effort to somehow express herself and remind Johnny of that night under the full moon. In vain, as Johnny was still so caught up in the illusion that made his entire life that he simply couldn't see it - even when River effectively took her own life by denying the operation. The only thing that had ever remained from who he actually was, was that little impurity in the matrix of his own mind - that wish to go to the moon that kicked off when River had vanished.

Damn...now I'm depressed again

 

[The Wykydtron]

Screw you, Escapist!....I need to work

Anyway, great game and in my opinion one of the shining examples of a well done plot twist. Everything that transpired before that particular scene makes sense afterwards and shows the cruel tragedy of the underlying plot. It's storywise an extremely well implemented game. However, It's sometimes far too pretentious about it's use of music, the dialogue or the actual scenes - you can tell it really wants to be a tear-jerker. Sometimes to the detriment of the actual impact. Especially with the "game"-aspects which were nothing short but annoying (I friggin hate those bloody puzzles!) or the forced quirkyiness of the male scientist, although the latter kind of turns into a patent case of fridge horror later on....

Anyway, it's worth every penny for the story twist alone.

Now for the fun part....

*reading through spoilers, remembers them all fine and well, then final one comes up...* WHAT???

Okay, I'm going to triple spoiler this one because it's insanely spoilerific

Spoiler: The subtle twist and the hints that lead me to guess it (that I can remember)

Spoiler

Spoiler

-My first clue was the coffee that the male scientist gets. He goes on and on about how there is no coffee available anywhere in the house and yet later, when you walk in on him unannounced, he has a cup of coffee. You, naturally, ask him where it's from and he gives you a really vague answer before disappearing with it. A small clue but I'm a suspicious type.

-Next up was the painkillers. The female scientist heads back to the car to get a sampling device for the roadkill. All well and good until we're treated to a scene where the male scientist is sat at a table and then suddenly thinks something and panics and runs out to the car. The whole setup is that he's remembered that there is something in the car that he doesn't want you to find. You find painkillers and your character suspects he has a pain killer addiction and confronts him over it and he is incredibly evasive. I actually started thinking at this point that maybe the painkillers were for me.

-At the same time we have the roadkill. This whole scene talks about how smell effects what goes on in the edited memories. The roadkill begins to really stink a day after they hit it. Then we get an odd little scene where the male scientist says to her about how he hopes that he never loses her because if he did then he'd end up working with the backup guy and he smells worse than the road kill. It's his worst fear. The scene is odd, the phrasing is off and the humour comes across as forced. (as in the male scientist is forcing it not the dialogue is bad)

-Then we have the ending sequence. They have a massive debate about "if you knew what the person wanted best and they didn't should you, ethically, help them?". He behaves really oddly and vehemently defends helping people against their will. She says "what's going on, this isn't like you" and we get a sense that there's an undercurrent to the dialogue, some subtle subtext, that is staring us in the face.

-The, right at the very end, they confirm this theory. Both scientists are in the real world looking at the lighthouse. They get a call about another case and she hurries off. He hesitates and waits around after she leaves. The screen flashes and the failing lifesigns warning plays while they are in the real world. The male scientist looks at his watch and looks distressed.

Spoiler: That seems like a long-shot

Might be, but I think it's far more probable that they wanted to establish that our little quirky, harmless comic-relief scientist is actually far more fucked up in the head than we all thought. His quirkyness is actually revealed to be just some defense mechanism to shield his mind from some ancient (presumably emotional) pain he still experiences. His addiction to the painkillers serves as a vent in that regard, his uncharacteristic eagerness for keeping River inside a faint sign of his inner torment and ultimately the ending as a reveal that he his indeed in pain or addicted to the painkillers. Or in other words: it's basically the House-MD-variant of character writing. And that's always fun in a fucked up, severly depressing way.

-snip-

-snip-

Spoiler: I disagree with you two

I think you both miss the most soulcrushing aspect about the story: his life and everything he had was already a lie. He never knew why he liked the things he did because he never really liked them. It was all because of the death of his brother and the subsequent madness of his mother that messed him up for good. Think about it: all of the things he liked were actually because he emulated what his brother liked. He was never the adventurous or rebellious type, while his brother was actually the one who delved into dreamworlds and yearned for something different - Escapism if you like. Thus, he basically denied himself through his whole fucking life. Worse, that emulation was exactly the reason he went on to date River in the first place: He said he wanted something different and his messed up mind drove him to her, as he didn't recall his meeting with her. River, on the other hand, did recall this scene in it's entirety and thought this was why they ultimately came together.

But it all fell apart when he told her about their meeting in high school. She realized that he never had the connection to her she thought he had and starting making the rabbits in an effort to somehow express herself and remind Johnny of that night under the full moon. In vain, as Johnny was still so caught up in the illusion that made his entire life that he simply couldn't see it - even when River effectively took her own life by denying the operation. The only thing that had ever remained from who he actually was, was that little impurity in the matrix of his own mind - that wish to go to the moon that kicked off when River had vanished.

Damn...now I'm depressed again

Spoiler

Well i've never thought about it that way before. I doubt losing a brother at such a young age would be *that* tramatic that it would ruin literally his entire life. I've never had a brother though so maybe I don't have the right perspective.

Anyway that's pretty awesome analysis, even if I can't get myself completely emotionally invested in To The Moon it's still pretty interesting.

I guess i'm not depressed because the game is trying too hard to be depressing. Like it sets out to get you emotional, preferably with crying and never loses sight of that goal. Whereas an actual emotionally engaging game would have the crying and whatnot be a byproduct of good writing. Not people writing specifically FOR the crying, if that makes sense.

 

[Chromatic Aberration]

Spoiler

Well i've never thought about it that way before. I doubt losing a brother at such a young age would be *that* tramatic that it would ruin literally his entire life. I've never had a brother though so maybe I don't have the right perspective.

Spoiler

I think it was less about his brother dying than it was about his mother going to cloud-cuckooland. Ever wondered why his memories got erased? I doubt a child, or teenager, has really the kind of access to the drugs required. An adult on the other hand....

Spoiler

Anyway that's pretty awesome analysis, even if I can't get myself completely emotionally invested in To The Moon it's still pretty interesting.

I guess i'm not depressed because the game is trying too hard to be depressing. Like it sets out to get you emotional, preferably with crying and never loses sight of that goal. Whereas an actual emotionally engaging game would have the crying and whatnot be a byproduct of good writing. Not people writing specifically FOR the crying, if that makes sense.

Spoiler

Thanks! Well, yeah, it has too much melodrama in it and it blows things a little too much out of proportion for it's own good - it kind of reminds me a bit of what I don't like about JRPGS: too much talk, too less substance and overly dramatized scenes that, at least for me, broke the immersion. I mean that cinema scene? Or that scene with doctor? How unsubtle can you get? The supposed thrill at the ending about whether the female doctor (however she's called) is removing River is also just silly: everybody knew by that point that she wouldn't do this. Not with the kind of behaviour she displayed throughout the game (talking to Johnny, trying to find out what happened, criticizing comic-reliefs insulting jokes about that matter all the fucking time...). And I think it's those small mechanical things that lessens its impact. And that's not to say that melodrama can't be done right, but it just feels too overt and misplaced here at times....

 

[BrotherRool]

Spoiler

Well i've never thought about it that way before. I doubt losing a brother at such a young age would be *that* tramatic that it would ruin literally his entire life. I've never had a brother though so maybe I don't have the right perspective.

Spoiler

I think it was less about his brother dying than it was about his mother going to cloud-cuckooland. Ever wondered why his memories got erased? I doubt a child, or teenager, has really the kind of access to the drugs required. An adult on the other hand....

Spoiler

A rare, but more common in years past treatment for anxiety disorders are beta blockers and its believed that a rare but possible side-effect of them is memory loss (although can't find a medical link, just victim reports). I always assumed he was prescribed them to deal with his trauma and maybe even deliberately obscure the memories of his childhood.

Spoiler

Thanks! Well, yeah, it has too much melodrama in it and it blows things a little too much out of proportion for it's own good - it kind of reminds me a bit of what I don't like about JRPGS: too much talk, too less substance and overly dramatized scenes that, at least for me, broke the immersion. I mean that cinema scene? Or that scene with doctor? How unsubtle can you get? The supposed thrill at the ending about whether the female doctor (however she's called) is removing River is also just silly: everybody knew by that point that she wouldn't do this. Not with the kind of behaviour she displayed throughout the game (talking to Johnny, trying to find out what happened, criticizing comic-reliefs insulting jokes about that matter all the fucking time...). And I think it's those small mechanical things that lessens its impact. And that's not to say that melodrama can't be done right, but it just feels too overt and misplaced here at times....

Spoiler

Generally I think the execution in the game wasn't great, in most of its forms, particularly with melodrama, and in his previous game (Quintessence) it had a similar problem (probably even to a greater extent, he created this fantastic ambiguous scenario and then kept destroying all the moments of ambiguity), but I think it's a testament to the situation he created and the theme he chose, that to me at least, the lack of polish just didn't matter. I finished the game with a long list of things it should have done better, but a couple of days later I found myself still thinking of the story and all the tragedy that comes out the more you think about it.

Spoiler

The use of spoiler tags and quote tags in this thread is making it look very odd =D. Better than not using them though (I was looking at youtube videos of the songs, and even the album cover for the OST is a heavy spoiler)

 

[Reincarnatedwolfgod]

well I will check out what cost in dollars and I might get it.

edit- 50 minutes till the sale ends. damn you high pressure sales.
$3.39 it without the soundtrack
$4.24 with the soundtrack
should I get the soundtrack if I buy it?

edit # 2- yay I now own to the moon

 

[gunny1993]

Ahhh i freaking love this game, i have now bought it 4 times (on sale) Once for me, once for me on steam so i could also buy the soundtrack, once for a friend and once again for another.

Just the brilliant mix of Greek tragedy (i see the scientists acting as a chorus) and brilliant plot twists that surprised me every time. (except for her condition, i guessed that fairly quickly since I've been reading about it for several years.)

This is a brilliant example of how music should be used to effect in games (and movies tbh), something i feel a lot of game developers sideline.

Also the song "everything's alright" is a fucking lie, shit isn't alright goddamn it.

Spoiler

 

[Scorched_Cascade]

Should I get the soundtrack if I buy it?

I like the soundtrack but as it's mainly (read: nearly all) piano music it tend to be a bit personal taste dependant.

If you have a spare $1 and like piano music then go for it, if not then maybe just buy the game.

Can always buy the soundtrack at a later date if you feel the need to as they sell the sound track by itself on the game's home site.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Oh? Didn't know that, I might look into getting that film. Can you confirm a suspicion I have though? Read the above triple spoilered thing, in light of that would it make (meta)sense that something has been copied or does the film have the same twist?

He's overstating how much To the Moon borrows from Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind, aside from broad conceptual themes such as the importance of memories in terms of defining who we are (it was also clearly influenced by Inception, although less so). ESOTSM arrives at a very different place than To the Moon while exploring its themes, and is no less worth the journey. I'd recommend checking it out, it's an excellent film.

Seriously, it's almost a joke how directly they just converted that movie into a game.

But they didn't, really. At all. I'm curious why you think they did.

I mean, there's a very obvious influence there, but influence/direct conversion. The characterizations, plot elements, and primary thematic beats are almost entirely different. As much as I enjoyed Eternal Sunshine I don't think it has a monopoly on the subject of memory manipulation.

 

[Ishal]

That sounds so damn sad I don't think I can play this game until I forget how sad it sounds. I actually already own it since the winter sale, but have not gotten around to play it yet.

Jesus that sounds sad, can't quite take it.

It is sad, but it's a "beautiful" sad, as opposed to a "crushing" sad.

I have to admit I cried pretty hard though. Damn To the Moon!

That is what I would say as well, beautiful sad.

The phrase "cried buckets of tears" is hard to tag onto a lot of points in my life, but that game made me have more feels than anything in a long time. Last time I felt that way was when my grandfather passed on. The music was the thing that really got me though.

Thinking about it now... just... shit. Shit.

OT: go buy it, man. Just go buy it. Its worth it.

 

[Da Orky Man]

Spoiler

I think it was less about his brother dying than it was about his mother going to cloud-cuckooland. Ever wondered why his memories got erased? I doubt a child, or teenager, has really the kind of access to the drugs required. An adult on the other hand....

Spoiler

You do know that he got prescribed beta blockers on account of that event? There's a afrily lengthy scene in the real world before HQ find the records and confirm it. The beta-blockers were what prevented you from initially gaining access to his oldest memories, prescribed to stop him remembering what would have been a truly horrific event.

Also, this htread looks ridiculous with all the spoiler boxes.

Highly recommend it to anyone who hasn't bought it, though.

 

[veloper]

To the Moon would have been much better as an anime or a machinima. As it is now, those obligatory little mini-games actually detract from the experience. Like a good meal, a good game needs a well done main course.

So either an anime or a complete overhaul with solid gameplay as a core feature would have worked better.

 

[Chromatic Aberration]

Spoiler: I think I'm gonna adopt the efficient one-huge spoiler-box system for my posts from now on...perhaps that will make the thread look a bit less ridiculous ^_^

You do know that he got prescribed beta blockers on account of that event? There's a afrily lengthy scene in the real world before HQ find the records and confirm it. The beta-blockers were what prevented you from initially gaining access to his oldest memories, prescribed to stop him remembering what would have been a truly horrific event.

A rare, but more common in years past treatment for anxiety disorders are beta blockers and its believed that a rare but possible side-effect of them is memory loss (although can't find a medical link, just victim reports). I always assumed he was prescribed them to deal with his trauma and maybe even deliberately obscure the memories of his childhood.

Ahhh thanks for that, Rool. I knew beta-blockers are used as a treatment for certain heart conditions and high blood pressure, but wasn't aware from it's use regarding anxiety disorders though. After hearing that explanation in the game back when I beat it I actually decided to check that and dug a bit around in Wiki but couldn't find anything. As for the trauma, yes that would have been the argument behind it and why he got it prescribed. My idea was that is mother could have actually pushed for this because she knew she could "replace" her other son with that. Of course that's a long shot and it surely doesn't matter: it's pretty safe to assume that erasing his memories laid the foundation for his emulation of his brother by virtue of his mother regardless of intent.

Generally I think the execution in the game wasn't great, in most of its forms, particularly with melodrama, and in his previous game (Quintessence) it had a similar problem (probably even to a greater extent, he created this fantastic ambiguous scenario and then kept destroying all the moments of ambiguity), but I think it's a testament to the situation he created and the theme he chose, that to me at least, the lack of polish just didn't matter. I finished the game with a long list of things it should have done better, but a couple of days later I found myself still thinking of the story and all the tragedy that comes out the more you think about it.

Yeah definitely, it's a game that sticks with you. It's by far, one of the most intricate experiences in gaming I encountered up until now. There are only few other games that make me immediately latch onto a thread about it and discuss away...

Also, I'll take your word regarding Quintessence from your previous post. *downloads*

 

[Karoshi]

But here's the non nitpick that I want to talk about. I didn't like the ending (although I still adore the game despite it). The rest has to be in spoilers, because you know-ending. The fact the game allows us to discuss stuff like this is a credit to it's themes though

Spoiler

To me the ending betrays everything in the game, that was his life, his highs and lows and replacing the real memories he had of his wife with fake ones, makes their love fake and unreal. It steals from him the one thing he really wanted and sort of invalidates his relationship. Replacing his wife with a displaced memory isn't good enough, thats not who she really is and who he loved and I don't think it counts as a happy ending

I absolutely agree with you. It's a great game and I spent four hours crying my eyes out, yet the ending didn't sit well with me. I like this game a lot and would recommend it to anyone, but was still disappointed.

Should I get the soundtrack if I buy it?

I like the soundtrack but as it's mainly (read: nearly all) piano music it tend to be a bit personal taste dependant.

If you have a spare $1 and like piano music then go for it, if not then maybe just buy the game.

Can always buy the soundtrack at a later date if you feel the need to as they sell the sound track by itself on the game's home site.

I liked the soundtrack a lot myself. There are two versions of the "For River" track and it's truly amazing how different the same tune sounds when played by different people. In one case it's a kind of repetetive but very sweet piece of music, in the second case it's hesitant at first, then more confident and you can feel that someone put in his whole soul while playing it.

It was worth the couple bucks I payed for it.

 

[Legion]

I thought it looked interesting but it's gone off sale, so maybe next time. There's no rush to buy it and if it's gone down once to that price, then it will happen again.