To Video Game Connoisseurs: Love Halo

[JWW]

This thread is aimed at Video Game Connoisseurs. You know who I'm talking about, you look down on modern FPS games as "lower" than the gems of the '90s. You squirm each time a new Call of Duty of Halo game comes out, fearing the pollution of the video game community by such lowly "trash". You cringe at the release of another hack-and-slash God of War ripoff that will continue to stagnate the Playstation. You love innovation and hate clones. You consider Bioshock, Braid, the Half-Life series, and/or the Final Fantasy series to be the pinnacle of gaming design. You are certainly NOT a casual.

I am one of you, preferring what might be considered a more "artsy" game over the everyday shooter or BroPG. But I have a message for all of you: thanks goodness for Halo.

Why? Very simple: it opens up gaming to a larger audience. More people means more support. If you've been watching Extra Credits, you know that gaming is up for its first amendment rights in the Supreme Court. Gaming needs all the support it can get right now. I know that games that shoot for the lowest common denominator are the ones that always get cited as "violent" or "offensive", but finding violence or offensive content in a video game is like finding hay in a haystack. It has become inherit to gaming's very nature. What we need is public support, not self-censorship. I would love it if we would all only buy games that would impress a panel of judges - and I call on all of you to consider that when buying games - but the world doesn't work that way.

Thoughts?

 

[Wintermoot]

I dont see how Halo and the violent game ban are connected

 

[JWW]

I love the way that you wrote that, very eloquent.

I have to agree. Right now videogames are facing a pretty big crisis, and we need to ban together if we want videogames to be taken seriously as a form of media, and as an art form.

I know it feels strange to hug a casual, but right now, we're relying on the people we hate most to get us through this. Hell, Bobby Kotick is our best hope in this battle, and he's the devil incarnate, that's just how desperate we are.

Remember kids, in the end, the enemy of my enemy is my friend, we must stand together against our feeble minded oppressors, even if it means we have to do it with our slightly less feeble minded frat boy "madden is the shit" gamers.

 

[StriderShinryu]

Hmmm.. while I get what you're saying, and I agree in large part, I think you're using the wrong term here. If you take out "connoisseur" and replace it with something like "elitist" (or, in some cases, elitist snob) then I would agree completely.

 

[Tessem7]

I would like to know why the general populace is against video games. A video game is an interactive movie or book, but no one is trying to outlaw, or limit the violence in movies or books. Why not? Because, according to most, blood and violence in a video game is worse and desensitizing compared to "real" blood and gore in movies. I agree that ESRB ratings should be more heavily enforced because there is nothing I hate more than playing Modern Warfare 2 and getting in a lobby with a bunch of 12 year olds who think its cool to scream into their mic so hard that their vocal cords are invading my ears. I agree that video games also need more public support and the public needs to understand that it takes a team of very talented individuals years to develop a game ready for sale and they pour their hearts and souls into the project, just like movies. I honestly do not see the difference between video games and movies, except for the interactivity and most movies I see these days are alot more violent than an average video game and even some M rated games (Halo).

We need to show the world that video games are just interactive movies and that they should not be regulated by the government. Movies, books, or any other type of media is not regulated by the government and video games should not be regulated either. The gaming industry is a multi-billion dollar industry and I would not be suprised if video game sales are greater than movie or book sales. The government and the general populace is just scared of games because they don't understand them.

WE NEED YOUR HELP AMERICA!!!!!

 

[Sepiida]

Halo is by no means a bad game or series. That doesn't me I have to call it anything other than what it is: a competent shooter with a boring protagonist and a sub par story that became a hit on the strength of its multiplayer. It's the Goldeneye of the original X-box (mind you I liked Goldeneye and had a fun time with Halo.)

I'm not sure why you're bringing up Halo as an example of something "gamer connisseurs" should embrace. If we really want to start appreciating games that have brought gaming to a larger audience you should have started a thread about Farmville.

 

[JWW]

well, personally since I'm 18 this wont affect me, but I'll make an argument anyways.

Taking freedom of speech away form videogames will affect you. It's not about being able to sell games to minors, it's about videogames not being protected by the first amendment, so the government could actually make it illegal to have bloody games!

You should go rewatch Extra Credits again, they explain the problem in a simple way that's easy to understand. Afterward you should look up some of the actual proposed legislation and read through it.

 

[Harker067]

Hmmm.. while I get what you're saying, and I agree in large part, I think you're using the wrong term here. If you take out "connoisseur" and replace it with something like "elitist" (or, in some cases, elitist snob) then I would agree completely.

Complete side track tangent. I've never understood the problem with the term elitist or how it became a negative. I want elite doctors operating on me, elite soldiers in the army, the best and brightest minds guiding the country.

So it always baffles me when people use elitist as a negative term.

 

[Tessem7]

Im sorry. It will affect me, I was just referring to if the ESRB ratings were better enforced, then I proceded to write my argument about the freedom of speech part.

well, personally since I'm 18 this wont affect me, but I'll make an argument anyways.

Taking freedom of speech away form videogames will affect you. It's not about being able to sell games to minors, it's about videogames not being protected by the first amendment, so the government could actually make it illegal to have bloody games!

You should go rewatch Extra Credits again, they explain the problem in a simple way that's easy to understand. Afterward you should look up some of the actual proposed legislation and read through it.

 

[Mikeyfell]

I wouldn't have so much of a problem if the new Call of Duty of Halo of War games weren't the only things people wanted.
look at the PS2's game catalog, then look at the PS3 or 360's game catalog
If you grouped all the clone games together you'd have about 10 games this generation
Halo introduced gaming to 13 year old shit heads that are polluting the gaming community by refusing to buy anything that isn't called Grand theft Halo of War 4: Modern Warfare, and spurts blood from every orifice, rejecting it if it shows any stimulating content or structure for fears that they will catch "the gay" I hate those people and so should everyone who's not a 13 year old shit head.

I'm more thankful for the WII enticing old people and the pastille shirt wearing family fun time brigade in to gaming. because they aren't polluting the real gamer gaming systems.

so the rich companies can make good games while the pastille shirt wearing family fun time brigade helps us vote against all the anti-artistic-progress laws disguised as video game regulation laws.

the 13 year old shit heads can't vote, and even if they could they wouldn't because they're shit heads.

more people would buy games that would impress judges if the 13 year old shit heads would stop buying Call of Duty, Gears of War, Grand Theft Auto, Halo, and all of the other crap.

all that being said Halo Reach was actually pretty good

 

[Stoplesteimer]

Hmmm.. while I get what you're saying, and I agree in large part, I think you're using the wrong term here. If you take out "connoisseur" and replace it with something like "elitist" (or, in some cases, elitist snob) then I would agree completely.

Complete side track tangent. I've never understood the problem with the term elitist or how it became a negative. I want elite doctors operating on me, elite soldiers in the army, the best and brightest minds guiding the country.

So it always baffles me when people use elitist as a negative term.

There is a difference between elite and elitist.

Elite is the best of the best, like doctors and soldiers.
Elitist indicates someone who thinks they are the best of the best(whether they are or not) and lords it over all the common folk.

OT: I can't help but think that this whole case is getting blown out of proportion.

 

[Mikeyfell]

I agree that ESRB ratings should be more heavily enforced .

it's kinda funny because the ERSB ratings are the most heavily enforced rating system in all of Media.

less than 1% of retailers will turn down a kid trying to buy an offensive CD
less than 14% of retailers will turn down a kid trying to buy an R rated movie
less than 86% of retailers will turn down a kid trying to buy an M rated game

I got those numbers from a thread on this topic a few weeks back
so I don't know how accurate they are but there you go

 

[Tessem7]

OT: I can't help but think that this whole case is getting blown out of proportion.

I completely agree. Imagine if the government was trying to regulate movies. The government would get laughed at and it would be a mockery. But as soon as video games replaces movies, then we need to regulate them immediately because they are ruining our children. IT MAKES NO SENSE. Minors cannot see R rated movies because they are carded and they cannot get in if they are not 17. When you buy an M rated game, you usually aren't carded unless at GameStop or if you look 17. I have never been carded at walmar, target, or best buy. If the people working at those establishments carded everybody, then we wouldnt end up with 13 year olds saturating our favorite games. But then parents just buy the games for them, just like movies. THERE IS LITERALLY NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN MOVIES AND VIDEO GAMES IN THIS EXAMPLE. IF THE GOVERNMENT FEELS THAT VIDEO GAMES NEED TO BE REGULATED, SO DO MOVIES, BOOKS, ETC.

 

[Cynical skeptic]

Well, for starters, opening gaming up to a wider audience is what caused the entire California vs video games debacle. Its what triggered insane fundamentalists to attempt to ban them. Putting Elvis on television is what made rock music "the devil's music." Violent film being successful is what made it "an eroding force against morality" and made "desensitization" a household curseword.

Opening anything up to a larger audience means more money, more exposure, and more risk. That last bit by extension forces a reduction of everything else. In the top-down GTAs, you, literally got points and encouragement for causing extreme havoc. It wasn't just "lol i can shoot down helicoptr," it was "I need to find a vehicle with the ideal weight and top speed necessary to mow down every single Elvis impersonator in the group to get the maximum bonus." The original GTAs were pure tongue in cheek anarchy. If Rockstar's next game was anything resembling that, (assuming it made it past the publishers and somehow got rated M) it would be held up as proof video games are purposefully attempting to corrupt our kids.

The lower your profile, the more freedom you have. Imagine if EA commissioned an XBLA or full retail release of demonophobia. People would be hovering from the force at which they'd be shitting bricks. All games would be banned before it could even be shipped. The various governments would, instantly, commission regulatory bodies to ensure nothing like that would it to even the design phase. But because I'm one of the tens of people who know about that game, it can be as fucked up as it wants.

So, thank halo? Love halo? Fuck no. Halo slammed the industry into the mainstream likely a decade before it was ready. Now games are under fire mainly because they're trapped between what the 'core' demographics want and what the mainstream demographics would like. If halo hadn't happened, there would've been more time for the core demographics to steadily become the mainstream. Instead, it opened gaming to frat boys and tweens who, before then, had nothing even resembling a definition of "video game."

When you buy an M rated game, you usually aren't carded unless at GameStop or if you look 17. I have never been carded at walmar, target, or best buy. If the people working at those establishments carded everybody, then we wouldnt end up with 13 year olds saturating our favorite games. But then parents just buy the games for them, just like movies.

The problem is these chains did card. When the ESRB was first established, clerks actually had mandates to card on any purchase of anything over T. This just meant a lot of angry scenes as parents were dragged from [wherever] to the toy store to yell at the clerk for telling him/her how to raise his/her kid.

So, rather than force their tellers to deal with that, they just stopped carding or even paying attention. Because most parents view video games as toys. Thats what California vs video games is about. Turning video games into the toys parents view them as.

Its utter bullshit and parents should be taking responsibility, but thats the basic argument.

 

[Tessem7]

I agree that ESRB ratings should be more heavily enforced .

it's kinda funny because the ERSB ratings are the most heavily enforced rating system in all of Media.

less than 1% of retailers will turn down a kid trying to buy an offensive CD
less than 14% of retailers will turn down a kid trying to buy an R rated movie
less than 86% of retailers will turn down a kid trying to buy an M rated game

I got those numbers from a thread on this topic a few weeks back
so I don't know how accurate they are but there you go

Those stats suggest that any % of stores less than 86% will turn down a kid trying to buy an M rated game, which means that the stat is suggesting that even 1% of stores turn down a kid, or as much as 86%, so the stat is flawed because if it were true it would read, "more than 86% of retailers will turn down a kid trying to buy an M rated game"

 

[Chainsaws_of_War_2]

So, thank halo? Love halo? Fuck no. Halo slammed the industry into the mainstream likely a decade before it was ready. Now games are under fire mainly because they're trapped between what the 'core' demographics want and what the mainstream demographics would like. If halo hadn't happened, there would've been more time for the core demographics to steadily become the mainstream. Instead, it opened gaming to frat boys and tweens who, before then, had nothing even resembling a definition of "video game."

I'm sensing some animosity because a game was too easy for people to get into and enjoy and now the market as a whole has been affected because of what people look for and want in a video game.

"Core demographics" is subjective because it is based on the idea that no one would have thought up a massively popular FPS that would globally impact the gaming world.

If Halo hadn't of happened another game of equally mainstream ideas would have formed.

 

[Mikeyfell]

I agree that ESRB ratings should be more heavily enforced .

it's kinda funny because the ERSB ratings are the most heavily enforced rating system in all of Media.

less than 1% of retailers will turn down a kid trying to buy an offensive CD
less than 14% of retailers will turn down a kid trying to buy an R rated movie
less than 86% of retailers will turn down a kid trying to buy an M rated game

I got those numbers from a thread on this topic a few weeks back
so I don't know how accurate they are but there you go

Those stats suggest that any % of stores less than 86% will turn down a kid trying to buy an M rated game, which means that the stat is suggesting that even 1% of stores turn down a kid, or as much as 86%, so the stat is flawed because if it were true it would read, "more than 86% of retailers will turn down a kid trying to buy an M rated game"

oops my bad
I typed less than 1
then kept on typing less

 

[JWW]

This thread is aimed at Video Game Connoisseurs. You know who I'm talking about, you look down on modern FPS games as "lower" than the gems of the '90s. You squirm each time a new Call of Duty of Halo game comes out, fearing the pollution of the video game community by such lowly "trash". You cringe at the release of another hack-and-slash God of War ripoff that will continue to stagnate the Playstation. You love innovation and hate clones. You consider Bioshock, Braid, the Half-Life series, and/or the Final Fantasy series to be the pinnacle of gaming design. You are certainly NOT a casual.

I'd consider myself part of that group (sadly). I have owned both COD4 and MW2, and not even touched their singleplayer campaigns (only bought them for the MP). I've seen my flatmate play through them and frankly, that's enough for me. Ditto for Gears of War (although I still own that).

I played Halo 1 for the PC and thought it was excellent. A slightly mundane story, but well executed and a lot of fun. I completed it a second time on Legendary and enjoyed that too (well, I enjoyed MOST of it, a few sections were fucking annoying).

Halo 2 was godawful, I didn't play it for more than a few hours. And this was with a friend, in co-op mode. I even went to the trouble of getting it for the PC, assuming it would be vastly improved, boy was that a mistake. Just got my refund a couple of days ago. Halo 3 I played for about 30 mins before realising it was crap.

So I guess my point is, I'm the kind of guy you're referring to, and I personally think Halo 1 brought a lot of interesting things to the table, and then the rest of the series basically did fuck all with it. Taken on the whole it's a bland, boring series with very little gameplay development throughout and very poor plot development.

Also Halo is one of those series that has been utterly milked for all the cash it can generate, and as such its a fucking terrible model to bring gameplay to the masses with.

Furthermore, I don't give a flying fuck whether the 'masses' are interested in gaming. As far as I'm concerned, this is a BAD (I'd write 'bad' in 15 foot tall letters here if I could) thing for gaming, because it will be dumbed down even more than it already has. I say, let gaming stay as a relatively non-mainstream thing. I like it that way.

 

[SL33TBL1ND]

I'm going to love a game based on how much I enjoyed it. Not on your word. I did not enjoy Halo, therefore I shall not love it. Good day.

 

[Cynical skeptic]

I'm sensing some animosity because a game was too easy for people to get into and enjoy and now the market as a whole has been affected because of what people look for and want in a video game.

"Core demographics" is subjective because it is based on the idea that no one would have thought up a massively popular FPS that would globally impact the gaming world.

If Halo hadn't of happened another game of equally mainstream ideas would have formed.

Uh, dude, every single one of bungie's games (once they stopped trying to be the only house making mac games) was an attempt to simplify it's respective genre. Myth was an extremely oversimplifed RTS. Oni was an extremely oversimplified third person action game. Halo was an extremely oversimplified fps. They have always been running in direct opposition to the rest of the industry (until the industry started following them). Every other house was trying to find ways to do more, show more, have more, but bungie was just ripping off the work of other's house's successful IPS and dumbing them down.

Now, thats par for the course. Then, its was an atrocity that if not for the completely walled garden that is LIVE and it's completely insulated demographics, would've never flew.

Bungie made a FPS for the average person. The average person is ridiculously easy to please. Their success has halted all forward progression in the video game industry save for the efforts of a small group of people. Not to mention, increased it's exposure to bigger morons who feel its the devil's work and is seeking to turn YOUR kids into rapists and murderers.