To what extent do you feel sorry for people who make incredibly stupid decisions?

[Ishigami]

I doubt he stole anything. It isn't the first time NK forces the US to some VIP meeting by arresting their citizen.

Let?s say someone climbs on a roof top and jumps down because he thinks gravity can be overcome by sheer force of will.
I feel sorry for his peers but him? Darwin Award.

 

[TheRightToArmBears]

I'm not very sympathetic. In some cases I might be- If the repercussions are much larger than the bit of idiocy that caused it and if it might not have been clear quite how dumb the idea was, then maybe. Maybe. Basically if it looks like a decision I might make then I'll be a bit sympathetic.

There was someone on my local news who got scammed out of ?30000 because scammers rang them up, pretended to be the police and claimed their bank account was unsafe so that they should take out all their money. They then turned up, dressed as a police officer, and collected it from their house. That fucking lady straight up gave her savings away, and didn't suspect it was even a little strange. I get that some old lady (who didn't seem in the least bit senile or suffering from Alzheimer's or anything like that) losing her life savings isn't funny... But for fuck's sake. If you're that easily conned I'm staggered you survived to your old age in the first place.

I also gave up watching The Walking Dead because the plot only moves along due to the characters making moronic decisions. Apart from Daryl, Glenn and maybe Maggie who seem somewhat capable of looking after themselves, I really, really wanted everyone to get eaten.

 

[Fox12]

Reminds me of those Christian missionaries that occasionally get the foolish idea to share Jesus with the good people of North Korea. They're Lord will protect them, after all. I can't remember whether we got any of them back or not.

I feel pretty bad for these people, especially if their heart was in the right place. Yes, they're stupid, and maybe even arrogant, but they don't deserve 15 years in a hard labor camp.

So, as long the punishment outweighs the crime, I'll probably feel sorry for them regardless of how stupid they are. Their attitude and intentions matter as well.

 

[JimB]

I always feel bad for people suffering. His actions were stupid, but they shouldn't be a death sentence.

Of course, given that North Korea routinely goes through food shortages and routinely tries to get out of begging for food by pretending they're gonna nuke someone unless the UN bribes them off with food, I suspect we can get out countryman back if we promise to throw three half-expired cans of creamed corn into the UN's next Food For The Homeless drive.

 

[zidine100]

Yeah I feel bad for the guy, I highly doubt he tried to steal anything, You cant really trust anything that comes out of their controlled media.

I can also see why he would have visited the place, i do see the appeal of seeing such a completely alien place before it the regime gets destroyed one way or another, but it is still risky as all hell. So yeah i do feel sorry for him, with the whole political relationship between the us and nk hes probably going to die in prison or one of their concentration camps or if hes really really lucky, the US might negotiate for his release.

 

[Silverbeard]

Now, it seems rather unclear as to whether or not he actually did any of this, regardless of his own confession, since it seems possible (and considering some of the stuff North Korea is saying about the situation, quite likely) that it's all propaganda and he's simply speaking under duress. Regardless, even if he didn't steal the banner, he did chose to travel to one of the most notoriously corrupt, totalitarian shit-holes in the world that has non-existent human rights and an extensive history of imprisoning foreigners ... not exactly a genius decision either way.

Relating to this incident specifically: I'll reserve judgment until I know why this chap went to North Korea to begin with. Applying for a visit visa to that country isn't really easy to begin with and is bound to get the attention of several US, North Korean and South Korean intelligence agencies. Part of me wonders if this fellow was actually a US spy or something sent to North Korea to do spy-type shit and the Northerners got him but couldn't hold a public trial so they put him in for stealing a flag. The whole incident smacks of a frightening level of stupidity that I don't believe any reasonably intelligent person is capable of. There's got to be more to this than the involved governments are letting on.

Relating to people who do bone-headed things generally: Case by case basis. I'm sure many decisions can seem like stupid ones in hindsight but at the time? They might have seemed reasonable. A guy jumping off a bridge to escape an angry charging Rottweiler might seem stupid to us but in the moment? It might have seemed like a good idea!
I mean, I'm sure we've all done things that seem stupid when we look back on them, haven't we? They didn't seem so stupid when we actually did them, did they?

 

[Pirate Of PC Master race]

Assume that every bit of this information regarding this situation is true, I am totally fine with this.

I have always supported "do whatever you want as long as you own up consequences following that action".

I for one, think of them living their life with smile on their faces, living their fullist.

 

[ThatOtherGirl]

I feel sorry for people who suffer disproportionate damage for a relatively minor slip up. And that qualifies for this guy. He did at least one monumentally stupid thing, going to North Korea, and possibly did a second monumentally stupid thing, broke the law in North Korea. But that doesn't add up to a 15 year sentence to hard labor that is likely to kill him.

 

[PainInTheAssInternet]

I'm one of those guys that just can't stop cringing when people make dumb decisions in movies. I do feel sorry for him, even if he made profoundly stupid decisions.

On the same hand, though, this isn't mildly questionable mental processes. This is a full-blown baffling move. Why go to North Korea and start shit up? Assuming that anyone's telling the truth.

 

[Skatologist]

I feel sorry for people who suffer disproportionate damage for a relatively minor slip up. And that qualifies for this guy. He did at least one monumentally stupid thing, going to North Korea, and possibly did a second monumentally stupid thing, broke the law in North Korea. But that doesn't add up to a 15 year sentence to hard labor that is likely to kill him.

Basically my view. Even if this was a stupid decision, I only find it slightly more stupid than a lot of college students around his age. Like, for example, the program I'll be in a few months from now is pretty tough academically, but the #1 thing that gets people kicked out of the schooling is evidence of underage drinking, despite us being informed drug tests would be administered quite often and at any given time the administration feels like it. I still don't plan on pressing my luck during that time and find any of my future peers who think can get away with it definitely will not, but there's still a smidgen of pity on my part for them losing out on something they probably worked hard for to get.

Also this guy's crime is just pretty bullshit. I understand that a totalitarian state like North Korea would be more likely to imprison or execute people who do petty crimes (or in some cases, non-crimes or suspicion of crimes) and claim that it was actually a crime against the state itself (much like how theocracies do the same with crimes being against scripture), but it seems like his intentions were not that high as to undermine a government by taking a souvenir from a trip.

And the guy already knows this is the worst decision of his entire life and seems genuinely terrified with his situation, so yes, I feel genuinely sorry for him and I hope he can come back home to his family having learned some lessons.

 

[McElroy]

This thread sparking my curiosity, I read that going to NK as a tourist they will really really try to keep you updated on everything you can and can't do there. So yeah, either he wasn't a tourist or really tried to do the opposite he was told. Of course the punishment they're throwing at him is outrageous, but damn he messed up. I wouldn't say anyone's a dumb shit for simply visiting NK, but you shouldn't push your luck, being American and all that.

 

[manic_depressive13]

I don't think the term "victim-blaming" is very useful. To use some recent examples, when black people get shot, or women get sexually assaulted, the standards being applied to them are very often hypocritical, unreasonable, sexist or racist. These are the real issues, rather than there being something inherently wrong with blaming a victim.

 

[Fractral]

Does anyone know how he ended up in North Korea? I mean did he actually buy a ticket straight from the US to Pyongyang, or was he like... backpacking through Asia, got drunk somewhere in China and some Chinese guys convinced him it would be a good idea to visit?

You can get holidays to North Korea. I met a guy who claimed to have been; supposedly there's one or two companies that have been very actively persuading the North Korean government to allow it. Honestly, it's probably a good thing for the country.

That said, it's not the safest place to be if you're American. My friend is Malaysian Chinese which helped since both Malaysia and China have 'good' relations with NK, but it might be harder if you're from the USA or Europe. And it didn't sound like it was a particularly nice place to visit beyond being able to say you've been to North Korea.

 

[Nemmerle]

Partially, yeah. I do feel a bit sorry for him. Someone who does something that stupid has, I assume, been denied even the barest modicum of real parenting. It's easy to imagine some idiot who thinks that the rules are something to be laughed at and flirted with doing this. It seems a little harsh to go from one extreme of almost zero consequences to the other extreme where you're essentially putting someone in a concentration camp for (maybe) nicking your flag.

All of which said, though I feel a bit sorry for him and wouldn't go out of my way to punish him if he got out, I probably wouldn't bother getting someone who thinks it's a bright idea to go to the DPRK back either. Like, 'you put your testicles in a crocodile's mouth, I feel sorry for you but I'm not paying your medical bill.'

There's a story called The Cold Equations which... a lot of people take away from that Heinlen's perspective: "The only universal capital crime is stupidity. The punishment is death. There is no appeal." (IIRC, it was something along those lines.) But I take a different view of it - that the girl hadn't been adequately warned because she had likely lived in an environment where the warnings were misused, where there were little to no consequences for violating them.

That determines a lot of my sympathy. If someone can reasonably be expected to know....

In this case, I largely think that someone could reasonably be expected to know that going to the DPRK was not a bright idea. Still a bit harsh, mind.

 

[Yopaz]

Depends on how many steps it takes from doing it to having it blow up in your face and how likely the worst case scenario is.

You can have stupid decisions that are only viewed as stupid because it went south.

It might seem like I'm victim blaming here, and that's probably because I am, but regardless of how alluring and mysterious NK might seem you would have to be an absolute cretin to willingly and knowingly put your fate in the hands of such a corrupt regime, especially with current tensions and their history of taking political prisoners.

Honestly, I wouldn't say that you are. He is not a victim. He broke the law in a country that is famous for being one of the harshest places in the world on both outsiders and its own people.

This thread sparking my curiosity, I read that going to NK as a tourist they will really really try to keep you updated on everything you can and can't do there. So yeah, either he wasn't a tourist or really tried to do the opposite he was told. Of course the punishment they're throwing at him is outrageous, but damn he messed up. I wouldn't say anyone's a dumb shit for simply visiting NK, but you shouldn't push your luck, being American and all that.

I actually kinda disagree. For North Korea this is about what I would have expected for a tourist breaking the law, especially one where he ridicules the government. You don't go to North Korea and expect gentle treatment for breaking the law. If you go to North Korea you do your research and do not step out of line. North Korea is well known for being oppressive. I think it's more outrageous that a man was imprisoned for up to 15 year in Florida for having sex on the beach. This happened in a country that prides itself on being the land of the free and tries to police the world.

 

[FalloutJack]

Stealing a propaganda banner in North Korea and getting that many years IS extreme. However, it was also a pretty boneheaded thing to do. I mean, we don't respect what NK says or does in general, but that doesn't mean we don't respect laws, especially laws that would seem damn important to them. Other countries may swear AT their propaganda flags, but they swear by it. It's serious business. Even if it's dumb, it's still their country, which is why you don't piss off dumb people, because then dumb things happen to YOU. It's a really bad thing.