Todd Howard, Skyrim Dev, thinks COD is 'hardcore'.

[TheDooD]

CoD is a hardcore game. It has a high skill cap and low entry point, and it's extremely replayable and deep. What isn't hardcore about that?

Just because something is very popular doesn't mean it's casual.

The difference between casual and hardcore is how you place it in your life. COD4 and after that are pretty much casual games because you can do well by playing it every now and then. there's no real learning curve then basically don't stop moving and aim for center mass. What makes it hardcore is all the people trying to max out their prestige, doing that isn't a real important part of the game except for some ego stroking. It takes a lot of effort to do this, most people would just max out and not care to bother with it after that.

I always thought everything past COD4 was pretty much casual. broken weapons, perks, killstreaks and almost useless deathstreaks. Then there's the zombie pandering eventhough it's stale and the laughable plothole filled storylines.

 

[veloper]

I saw this in another thread and it seemed appropriate:

​

If CoD is hardcore then we're all doomed. Sure CoD isn't an ultra accessible browser game, but its about as far from "hardcore" as a AAA game can get without being Wii sports.

You want hardcore go play ARMA2 or X3 or Europa universalis or Morrowind.

That vid is just single player, so that's not a fair argument. Hardcore refers to multiplayer and there skill does matter.

It takes top players alot of time and effort to get there and to stay on top, so it's not so crazy to call multiplayer COD hardcore gaming.
While I can think of much harder games, if you consider even Morrowind hardcore, then alot of games are hardcore.

 

[gibboss28]

Okay so this is what Todd Howard had to say about COD according to a gamasutra interview [http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/35678/Interview_Todd_Howard_On_The_Scope_Vision_Of_Skyrim.php]

You look at Call of Duty, the most popular game in the world, and that's actually pretty hardcore. At the end of the day, it's a hardcore game, has RPG elements in multiplayer, making classes, picking perks. I think the audiences are there, and we tend to make our game more for ourselves and other people who play a lot of games.

Now my personal view aside. Is that really a wise thing to say considering the current climate of worries about streamlining and accessibility that is developing around Skyrim. Whether or not COD is what he says it is I think most 'hardcore' RPG fans would take issue with that judging from what I have seen on these, and other forums regarding COD and it's playerbase.

What do you think of this statement? Is it somthing that worries you? Do you agree with him?

Personally I will be buying the game but this made me raise my eyebrows a little.

How about adding the rest of that part of the article? Ya know, so its not taken out of Context?

What about accessibility -- making Skyrim a game that's inviting to people who might not play RPGs as much, and also the hardcore people who have been playing The Elder Scrolls since the beginning?

Honestly, it's not something that we think about a lot, in that we've found that we're getting a pretty big audience making a game that we want to make. We want to make it for whoever it is -- even if you've played Elder Scrolls before, you haven't played this one, so you don't understand what a skill does yet.

... We want to remove confusion, that's what I'd say. As opposed to making it more accessible, we'd like to remove confusion for anyone who's playing. What we're trying to do now is lead you into it more... In our games or others' games, they give you a character menu and say, "Who do you want to be, what powers do you want?" [Players think,] "I don't know, I haven't played yet!"

What happens in Oblivion is you start the game, play for three hours, and then think "I want to start over, I chose wrong." So we'd like to sort of alleviate some of that. I also think the controls work better [too] ... it's more elegant.

You look at Call of Duty, the most popular game in the world, and that's actually pretty hardcore. At the end of the day, it's a hardcore game, has RPG elements in multiplayer, making classes, picking perks. I think the audiences are there, and we tend to make our game more for ourselves and other people who play a lot of games.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

snip

I'm sorry I thought, ya know, adding a link to the entire article would be enough.... >_>

It makes me laugh when people don't actually participate in a debate but instead try and make out the OP is trying to twist somthing... I made my OP as neutral as possible to avoid coming across that way becuase it's not my intention. I guess there will always be someone to try and make it out like that though.

 

[TWjohnny]

...Who the hell is Todd Howard?

OT: I don't know if making classes and choosing perks can be considered rpg elements. I haven't played any of the recent Cod games but I would imagine that creating classes in it is just choosing which guns you want to use, but i'm probably way off. I don't know, maybe he's right.

You earn experience and level up, gain new weapons and skills, etc. Voila. RPG elements.

RPG = Role Playing Game, upgrading your weapons and changing perks does not make you a role player, role playing would be barking commands and positions at people, calling people by tactical names and planning how to deal with every possible tactic,

eg: RP Realms on WoW,

This Mr.Todd is obviously not a player of COD nor has he experienced it's genre, He would do best to keep his thoughts inside his little elder scrolls world.

 

[malestrithe]

Hardcore and Casual do not refer to games themselves. Those terms refer to mindsets that players take to a game. It is possible to pick up and play Halo for 15 minutes, then walk away from it. It is just as possible to grind out something like Bejeweled for hours, even days on end.

Why is it that Street Fighter 4, the very definition of Casual, is considered a core game?

 

[veloper]

...Who the hell is Todd Howard?

OT: I don't know if making classes and choosing perks can be considered rpg elements. I haven't played any of the recent Cod games but I would imagine that creating classes in it is just choosing which guns you want to use, but i'm probably way off. I don't know, maybe he's right.

You earn experience and level up, gain new weapons and skills, etc. Voila. RPG elements.

RPG = Role Playing Game, upgrading your weapons and changing perks does not make you a role player, role playing would be barking commands and positions at people, calling people by tactical names and planning how to deal with every possible tactic,

eg: RP Realms on WoW,

This Mr.Todd is obviously not a player of COD nor has he experienced it's genre, He would do best to keep his thoughts inside his little elder scrolls world.

Don't correct the guy, if you don't know the facts yourself.
Role playing game = playing a tactical role (playing your class or function). That's what it used to mean anyway. None of this thespian story stuff, that was extra optional fluff.

The only shared characteristic of the RPG, ARPG, SRPG, JRPG, WRPG, etc. is advancement through experience and gear. We call those RPG elements.

 

[Hamster at Dawn]

I guess it classes as "hardcore". I don't really know because it's quite a vague term but the amount that some people play COD would seem pretty hardcore to me.

 

[TriggerHappyAngel]

Oh no, this means that Skyrim will become just like CoD!

 

[Iron Mal]

To be fair, you don't see people's mothers going off to play CoD so it's not really a casual gamer thing.

Oh wait! My mom plays CoD online! (seriously)
Please tell me I proved him wrong!

And your mother playing CoD invalidates his opinion how exactly?

We, as a general rule, have a hard time agreeing on what terms like 'hardcore gamer', 'casual gamer' or even just 'gamer' in general mean so trying to say someone else got it wrong is along the lines of being back in primary school and saying your short story about aliens is so much better than everyone else's because you wrote it.

He thinks CoD is hardcore, fine.

I think that the most hardcore game out there has to be a tie between Painkiller (anyone suprised?) or Diablo II (making the Lord of Terror your ***** is pretty hardcore in retrospect), that's also fine.

There is probably someone out there who thinks the most hardcore game out there is Barbie's Horse adventures, I wouldn't agree with them but if they at least have a reason for it then disagreeing with them is the most I could do.

 

[neonsword13-ops]

Hardcore when five year olds play it?

 

[Sabazios]

It's only 'hardcore' to the extent that it requires choice in perks, and lets you unlock things the more you play.

That's grind, basically. No wonder Howard likes it.

But even someone inexperienced can play and get some kills (mainly due to auto aim).

Just like Oblivion because you can hit all the time with the lowest skill in each weapon.

 

[StarStruckStrumpets]

If CoD is hardcore, what the fuck is Counter Strike?

I'm tempted to include Chuck Norris in my response to this comment, but I won't.

Maybe it's an EXTWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEM FPS tatul. (If you don't get that, look up Tak Fuji on YouTube and watch his E3 press conference from last year.)

 

[Kungfu_Teddybear]

I'd say Call of Duty is a mainstream game with some hardcore players.

Okay so this is what Todd Howard had to say about COD according to a gamasutra interview [http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/35678/Interview_Todd_Howard_On_The_Scope_Vision_Of_Skyrim.php]

You look at Call of Duty, the most popular game in the world, and that's actually pretty hardcore. At the end of the day, it's a hardcore game, has RPG elements in multiplayer, making classes, picking perks. I think the audiences are there, and we tend to make our game more for ourselves and other people who play a lot of games.

Now my personal view aside. Is that really a wise thing to say considering the current climate of worries about streamlining and accessibility that is developing around Skyrim. Whether or not COD is what he says it is I think most 'hardcore' RPG fans would take issue with that judging from what I have seen on these, and other forums regarding COD and it's playerbase.

What do you think of this statement? Is it somthing that worries you? Do you agree with him?

Personally I will be buying the game but this made me raise my eyebrows a little.

How about adding the rest of that part of the article? Ya know, so its not taken out of Context?

There is a link to the entire article in her first sentence.

 

[Continuity]

I saw this in another thread and it seemed appropriate:

What is actually the point of that video? Is it supposed to prove some point or was it just completely random?

I think it demonstrates a very clear point, i.e. that CoD has become little more than a movie that you get to watch. And if that is a "hardcore" gameplay experience then that is a very sad state of affairs.

I saw this in another thread and it seemed appropriate:

​

If CoD is hardcore then we're all doomed. Sure CoD isn't an ultra accessible browser game, but its about as far from "hardcore" as a AAA game can get without being Wii sports.

You want hardcore go play ARMA2 or X3 or Europa universalis or Morrowind.

That vid is just single player, so that's not a fair argument. Hardcore refers to multiplayer and there skill does matter.

It takes top players alot of time and effort to get there and to stay on top, so it's not so crazy to call multiplayer COD hardcore gaming.
While I can think of much harder games, if you consider even Morrowind hardcore, then alot of games are hardcore.

Hardcore does not refer to the intrinsic difficulty of a game, if that's what you're referring to you would say that the difficulty is hardcore.. by saying a game is hardcore we are in fact talking about such things as complexity, learning curve, skill factor, and depth of gameplay mechanics.

Also I'm not sure I buy the idea of a game being "hardcore" on the basis of its multiplayer aspect... after all pretty much any game with multiplayer can be taken to a certain level competitively and that experience will always be "hardcore", however that is an aspect of the nature of multiplayer in general and not necessarily the game itself.

 

[DrWilhelm]

I saw this in another thread and it seemed appropriate:

​

If CoD is hardcore then we're all doomed. Sure CoD isn't an ultra accessible browser game, but its about as far from "hardcore" as a AAA game can get without being Wii sports.

You want hardcore go play ARMA2 or X3 or Europa universalis or Morrowind.

Really? This video again? Sweet unholy casserole...

Folks constantly ***** and moan about how useless friendly AI is, but here we have AI that is at least passably competent on the very first level of a game, the level that is almost universally piss easy in every game, on what I'm going to guess is the easiest difficulty (does he say? I can't be arsed to watch the video again) and apparently this is a harbinger of Beelzebub.

Closer on topic with the thread: Stop throwing around terms like casual and hardcore in the medium of gaming. Much like the definition of an RPG, the two words are at best endlessly subjective, and at worst they're just a meaningless series of letters used by smug twats with fragile egos looking to belittle others.