"Toddler weds dog to defeat tiger curse"...When superstition gets out of control.

[BubbleGumSnareDrum]

Indian parents have married their young son to a dog in order to prevent the prophecised murder of their child by a tiger.

Full(ish) article here - http://news.uk.msn.com/odd-news/article.aspx?cp-documentid=14321257

My question is at what point will common sense and logical 21st Century thinking prevent or even outlaw such practises from happening? And out of interest, why are such beliefs held in such high regard over more 'concrete' evidence like scientific data or statistical studies?

The human race appears to be reaching the pinnacle of its existance (judging by my un-educated guess) yet many people still get hung up on the idea of superstions/curses....Why?

Although it has to be said once in a while, articles like the one mentioned above do brighten up my day and keep the world an interesting place to live.

P.S Sorry if this has been discussed recently, the thread searcher wasn't working for me... I did look.

Ridiculous superstitions and religious beliefs are held in higher regard than fact because most people are not only dumb enough to believe these things, they also get highly offended when someone else doesn't or criticizes their beliefs.

This is proof to me that there is no such thing as human nature, only human behavior. I grew up in a household where I was allowed to decide what I believed and didn't have an idiotic religion forced down my throat, so I wound up not believing any of them.

People are only vehemently religious because they were programmed that way during childhood. Fact, fact, fact.

 

[nekolux]

I love how people are talking about how this isn't normal or that it is stupid or makes no sense. First of all, who says that you get to define normal? What is normal in the first place? Normal is a completely subjective word and therefore very dangerous to use. Sure it may be messed up in our eyes, but stuff we do might make no friggin sense to people from other cultures, so maybe lay off the hate? Even the people who are saying it's not normal but I'm okay with it, you're just coming off as pretentious. And to the guy who made the jab at how Christians argue against science with the "you can't prove it wrong so it must be true" bull, that isn't what we do. That's what the last generation that only believed what their parents told them and didn't bother researching anything did.

I dont think many of us have said that this isn't normal. We're saying that this isn't rational and it most likely isn't safe at all.

While trying very hard not to turn this into a full blown creationist versus atheist argument ( oh god not one of those again ). Russell's teapot is an extremely valid argument. You mentioned that only previous generation creationists are like that. I agree, current generation creationists are mostly people who believe in intelligent design. Which i personally find even worse than religion itself. In pure religion, science is not mixed in. The creationists accept that the odds are against them but they keep faith, that's all fine by me. However IDs come in and start mixing the two up, they mislead people with fallacious arguments which they claim are backed up by proper science. They claim that their beliefs can be proven through empirical methods. They then go on to set up experiments that do not even fit a high school standard of a scientific experiment.

I highly suggest the series called " Why do people laugh at creationists " By thunderf00t on youtube. Here's the link. Those videos are actually extremely relevant to this subject. It exposes the argument behind the smiles and wiles of the typical ID who counts on his oratory skills to propagate his misinformation. http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=AC3481305829426D

 

[Melancholy_Ocelot]

I may be able to beat that TC.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-534929/Indian-baby-born-faces-doing-month-birth.html

A girl was born with a terrible birth defect...two faces. But apparently there is a god in that culture with two faces, so they are worshiping her as a fucking god. When the story broke, I read that they knew it was coming but decided to keep it because it was a reincarnated god.

Shit like this no longer breaks my heart. It fills me with contempt and hate. I'm sorry, but I don't even recognize people with that mentality as human. The fact that I have the same amount of chromosomes as those people scares the shit out of me.

I often wonder where we would be as a species if it weren't for people like that.

I know I sound like a hateful person but I see it all the time and it has worn me down over time.

 

[Raven's Nest]

Indian parents have married their young son to a dog in order to prevent the prophecised murder of their child by a tiger.

Full(ish) article here - http://news.uk.msn.com/odd-news/article.aspx?cp-documentid=14321257

My question is at what point will common sense and logical 21st Century thinking prevent or even outlaw such practises from happening? And out of interest, why are such beliefs held in such high regard over more 'concrete' evidence like scientific data or statistical studies?

The human race appears to be reaching the pinnacle of its existance (judging by my un-educated guess) yet many people still get hung up on the idea of superstions/curses....Why?

Although it has to be said once in a while, articles like the one mentioned above do brighten up my day and keep the world an interesting place to live.

P.S Sorry if this has been discussed recently, the thread searcher wasn't working for me... I did look.

People are only vehemently religious because they were programmed that way during childhood. Fact, fact, fact.

I would ask you to explain the concept of a born-again christian, or indeed anyone who converts to a new religion for that matter. But since I do not want to see this thread banned or turned into a religious flame for all, I won't. Neither was it my intent to bring religious stigmata or practises into question for precisely this reason.

I'm more interested in why people still believe in simple superstitions like black cats, opening umbrella's indoors etc.

 

[Trivun]

It's called religion, and "Logical 21st century thinking" doesn't exist.

"Superstition is still a potent force in tribal and remote communities of India."
These people often won't have access to education or a normal lifestyle. Born in some dirty muddy village, dies in the same place scenario.

You say 'normal' lifestyle, but the thing is, that is normal in their culture. What is normal to us won't always seem normal to people of that tribe, and vice versa. The same goes for pretty much all non-Westernised cultures, we basically have a different way of life to them, and there is nothing that can truly define 'normal', since normality is a relative concept. With regards to this particular case, the parents and village elders were simply doing what they have always done, and obviously a tourist or journalist or someone picked up on it. Even with increased exposure in India and other 3rd World countries to the cultures that us Westernised countries now have, there are still fundamental differences. The kid was married to the dog because his parents thought it would prevent a tiger attack in later life, and who are we to judge if that is normal or indeed if it will or won't happen? Maybe they have a point, maybe they don't. The thing is, the tribe were simply following their beliefs in the exact same way that we all do on a regular basis. The only difference is that their beliefs and ours differ somewhat, especially in the modern day.

 

[cuddly_tomato]

I'm just putting my idealistic brain on the frontline and demanding for someone to explain to me exactly why I shouldn't walk under a ladder etc, in the days of health and safety nazi's and so on...

Never demand, for nobody has to give you an answer and demanding only makes them more reluctant too.

But answer I shall. The ladder superstition (along with a lot of others) is, in fact, completely normal. Learning is basically pattern recognition. This occurs, that occurs, and the other is the result. The human brain is geared up to recognize patterns and do everything it can to repeat such patterns in an attempt to replicate circumstances that are favourable and avoid circumstances are not.

Example: Lots of sporty types have a "lucky" shirt that they first wore when they scored a goal or won a race. They then associate that shirt with the success, and will wear it in order to help them win again. To some extent this belief is warranted - confidence is vital. But there is no physical reason for such things.

EDIT: This is not a religious thread. Could people please stay on topic and stop preaching.

 

[Alex_P]

Did you not get my comment? I have nothing in giving the kid a dog to protect him from tigers, it's a brilliant idea. But don't marry the dude to a fucking dog.

It's not a marriage as you or I know it. Both the religious ritual and the social system vary in significance widely across cultures.

Look, in the US, it's typical to talk about "adopting" an animal. What would you say to some random foreigner who freaked out and went "OMG you adopted a CAT? So that means the cat is now one of your children and will inherit your possessions when you die? You can't pass on your property to a fucking cat!" You'd probably call him an idiot, wouldn't you?

Same thing applies here.

-- Alex

 

[Lord_Ascendant]

I'm going to quote Wallace Breen had a point, even if he was evil.

Superstition is a base instinct that isnt rational or useful and should be eradicated. The Combine Soldier with the gun to my temple nonwithstanding it makes sense. Someone find me the full quote from Half-Life 2 please?

 

[Raven's Nest]

I'm just putting my idealistic brain on the frontline and demanding for someone to explain to me exactly why I shouldn't walk under a ladder etc, in the days of health and safety nazi's and so on...

Never demand, for nobody has to give you an answer and demanding only makes them more reluctant too.

But answer I shall. The ladder superstition (along with a lot of others) is, in fact, completely normal. Learning is basically pattern recognition. This occurs, that occurs, and the other is the result. The human brain is geared up to recognize patterns and do everything it can to repeat such patterns in an attempt to replicate circumstances that are favourable and avoid circumstances are not.

Example: Lots of sporty types have a "lucky" shirt that they first wore when they scored a goal or won a race. They then associate that shirt with the success, and will wear it in order to help them win again. To some extent this belief is warranted - confidence is vital. But there is no physical reason for such things.

That's a pretty solid answer to which I do not need to question further. I'm thinking this came up in a psychology class right?

So this being Freud's take on the matter does the same principle apply to larger superstitions such as curses or severe runs of bad luck? Reading through a few Ripley's believe it or not articles hath instilled upon me the sense that some people genuinely suffer bad luck. Can this be rationalised too? or should I be reading something more intelligent?

P.S I do forget about the inabillity to have a tone of voice on the internet, i'll try and watch use my vocabulary in the future.

 

[cuddly_tomato]

That's a pretty solid answer to which I do not need to question further. I'm thinking this came up in a psychology class right?

These are my own thoughts, but based on a lot of anthropology and psychology reading, specifically a certain book that may interest you (PM me if you want the details).

So this being Freud's take on the matter does the same principle apply to larger superstitions such as curses or severe runs of bad luck? Reading through a few Ripley's believe it or not articles hath instilled upon me the sense that some people genuinely suffer bad luck. Can this be rationalised too? or should I be reading something more intelligent?

Being a non-theistic Pagan, I do have some belief in concepts such as fate and certain things happening for a reason. However if not, I would very much conclude that a lot of this is down to ones outlook. A man is on an aeroplane, the aeroplane crashes and he breaks both his legs. He lies there, for 30 minutes, trapped under wreckage, in terrible pain while emergency services attempt to cut him out. One could say he had terrible luck. But he is still alive, he has survived an aeroplane crash without permanent damage, he has had a life changing experience that will make him treasure the rest of his days on earth and put all future problems into perspective.

On the other side of the coin, superstitions can come about as a result of abnormalities in nature. Let me introduce you to Gustave [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gustave_(crocodile)]...

This chap lives in Africas Burundi region. He also has bullet holes all over his scaly hide, there have been several attempts by humans to take his life. But that doesn't seem to bother him too much, and he responds in kind. According to local legend he has killed over 300 people (and counting, he is still out there right now), but also according to local folklore he is an evil witch doctors spirit returned to earth. While that is hardly scientific, if it keeps the kids away from the waters edge and the local fishermen a little more alert then it is all good stuff. It is quite reasonable for a human mind, so adept at recognizing patterns, to ascribe bizarre events or circumstances to a bizarre force. "It isn't logical!" doesn't wash while you are halfway through a giant crocodiles digestive tract.

Let's flip the coin onto its third side and look at a third source of superstition - fun. Remember when you were little? You and your pals ever get together in someones house late, turn all the lights off, and tell ghost stories? You would talk to each other about stuff you seen, stuff you heard, and you would do your best to make yourself believe it to feel that tingle of wonderful terror slither up your spine. How would you have responded to one of the other kids saying "there is no such things as ghosts so ner ner!"... Buzzkill? People like to be a bit scared sometimes, and ditching all superstitions in favour of a cold, logic, and (frankly) soulless philosophy isn't as fun for most of us. So we keep the odd superstition around for when we need to have fun with our imaginations.

 

[keyton777]

dude the people in india burn their dead bodies out in the open, in the city, on the shore of the ganges river, i saw a picture of children playing next to one of these things, and it takes literally days for these to burn




there are people that enjoy getting in from behind buy a horse, i have lost nearly all interest in the strangeness of humanity

 

[Cortheya]

poor kid lol

 

[bad rider]

Prove he isn't cursed and that his parents aren't protecting him. I mean for christ sake it's all right if we sit back and scoff at the unwashed masses, but lets not forget superstitions have been with us rightup until recently. (still alive and kicking in some places.) Just remember, we should be giving other countrys time to evolve, just because we got were we are at before everyone else dosen't mean we should be talking about how much more clever we are.

 

[Kadamon]

Well it is indigenous religion, I think that we shouldn't even give snide ass remarks to them in person...we do it over the internet.

But rly!
They just saved that child from a tigger

Think of the children! D:

 

[PirateKing]

Ah we're not at our pinnacle of existence yet. We haven't even invented battle mechs. Well, I am against superstition being substituted for religion. The kid will end up divorcing the dog or something. This marriage won't last.

 

[cainx10a]

These people often won't have access to education or a normal lifestyle. Born in some dirty muddy village, dies in the same place scenario.

You mean like in rural, small town America

More like this ... . India, just like china, might be a developed country, and even a potential super power, but poverty there is much worst than here in North America.


Edit: To w/e just posted how weird it is that Indians burn their dead: I may be of Indian descent, although, not an expert on my ancestors' culture. Cremation is required to for dead Hindus (except children under 5), and of course, spreading their ashes in the holy river Ganges(which hey, guess what, was a river flowing in heaven which was "brought" down to this plane of existence, thanks to some dood prayers) or even dead bodies, to wash away their sins . Even if I wasn't born a Hindu, I do want to be cremated, stored in a Jar with the title "Take care of my hamsters grand-grand-grand-grand children please!".

 

[CrafterMan]

Self fulfilling prophecy: the dog is actually a tiger and eats the kid.

Lmao ahhh the irony.

 

[Raven's Nest]

People like to be a bit scared sometimes, and ditching all superstitions in favour of a cold, logic, and (frankly) soulless philosophy isn't as fun for most of us. So we keep the odd superstition around for when we need to have fun with our imaginations.

An excellent reply for this idealist's comprehension, thank you.

As a spiritual person (not religious) and a believer in fate and destiny, I am inclined to allow myself a little time to ponder whether fate and superstition are linked. I have thus concluded that where as ultimately everyone is in control of their own actions, some events may occur regardless of how probable or improbable it would be for them to happen in the first place. But to live in fear of such events to the point we indulge ourselves in our own rituals to attempt to change the course of them, is a concept I find perplexing.

To this end, when I read the article I posted earlier, I couldn't help but smile. I realised I may in fact, never understand why being married to a dog might prevent the bloodshed of a child. Nor the reasons behind assuming having one's teeth grow through one's gums would indicate one is marked for a death brought to us by a tiger. Just how many times could this have happened for it to become a recognisable pattern?

Just one more thing though. There are definitely cases where superstition can take control over real simple logic and reasoning. I'm really trying to avoid religion as a subject in this thread so we'll leave that for another day.

So take OCD's for example. My own grandmother suffers an OCD about home security. More specifically, it can take her up to an hour to leave the house because she feels the need to check almost everything is secure and not going to cause the house to burn down etc. That's everything from the fridge, the oven, TV?s, windows, light switches, radiators. But she will leave the house and re-enter it to check it all again...several times over. When I asked her why she did this, (I was young at the time and therefore had no understanding of an OCD) she told me it was just a silly superstition she had.

This whole process really affects her life now as she has to do it every time she goes out, without fail. When did this 'superstition' start to dominate her life like this? Such cases of holding such trivial superstitions to heart can have very unfortunate and sometimes dangerous consequences on those that believe in them.

On a more humorous note, I do find it hilarious to see sports players attempt to explain their poor performance on things like lucky socks, balls, helmets etc. Especially when those players are paid a considerable amount more money than me to do their jobs.