Tokyo Olympics Chief Says Women Talk Too Much At Meetings

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McElroy

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I'm not cut out to have kids, honestly, and I don't think I'd be very good at raising one.
Say that and I can let it be. After all, I can have 4 kids if I want to.

The birthrate is high enough where I live, and where most of us live. It could, if anything, afford to be a bit lower.
But say that and we are slightly at odds aren't we? The fertility rate is like under 1.7 in the UK and only 1.4 in Finland. Now technically I could still end up lowering it no matter how many kids I have because it's the average for each female, but I'd prefer to move it higher nevertheless.
 

stroopwafel

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Knocking on a topic that's bigger than this thread, but I'll summarize something off the top of my head. In the long run any antinatalism or "childfree" sentiments sort themselves out. However, during the course of a lifetime our way of life can doom itself, as dying societies have little authority in deciding the future. The liberal-minded people that consider maybe having one child think that the people moving in to keep demographics afloat will adopt their values instead of just their consumerism. I wouldn't bet on it.

About partners, there are still overwhelming trends in people's attitudes and what everyone ends up with. Even the persistent singles usually get into a monogamous relationship in their 30s. (1-2% of men are of course "doomed" due to demographics, but that's one thing we can't do anything about.) But before that age range the average guy is at a massive disadvantage akin to the infamous 20/80 rule that online dating and big cities exacerbate further into the inflated expectations that you describe.
You have a point that a declining birth rate will alter the demographics of a country when coupled with immigration in ways that are indeed regressive. But that is a political choice. It also stands in no comparison to the fact too many kids are raised in an environment of abuse and neglect and as such it shouldn't be actively encouraged to have children unless people really want it themselves. Even financial incentives to bump the birth rate will only encourage the wrong kind of people to have children.

I find it hard to believe that people with no dating success in their twenties will end up in a first time relationship in their thirties. I'd say the opposite is true; when someone lacks any kind of relationship or dating experience into their thirties then particularly women would find that pretty strange. After 30 with no experience I'd say chances are pretty slim to still find someone. Unless you really just want to settle for anyone which I guess many people do.

There was a study a while back that showed that more people 65+ were having sex than people in the prime of their life. Whether by choice or not it's a trend that isn't magically upended when people reach age 30. It's not like ''yeah I didn't date or had a very active sex life in my twenties but now I'm 30 so let's marry and have kids''. I find that very hard to believe. People are also still young enough for the 80/20 rule to apply. Even if the unlikely opportunity presented itself it's like going straight into heavy responsibilities and skipping the fun part that preceded it. Who does that?
 

Specter Von Baren

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I am reminded of the studies that have been conducted in classrooms where researchers studied how much either gender talked during a class. If it got even close to a 50/50 split both boys and girls felt that the girls had talked a lot more then the boys. In similar studies where the researchers made sure to give both genders equal time to talk in discussion settings, most participants felt they favored women.

I am not surprised it happened in Japan, but it happens all the time in the West too.
But women DO talk more with each other than men. Or are we just dropping the scientific and anecdotal evidence of women being more open with each other and men bottling up things because it's not convenient for this topic? The reason men would think women are talking more in a situation where both the men and women were talking the same amount is because women will converse with each other more than men and so they make an assumption based on prior experience.
 

Silvanus

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But say that and we are slightly at odds aren't we? The fertility rate is like under 1.7 in the UK and only 1.4 in Finland. Now technically I could still end up lowering it no matter how many kids I have because it's the average for each female, but I'd prefer to move it higher nevertheless.
Finland appears to be a bit of an outlier, in that population could realistically begin to decrease in the next few decades, which isn't the case for most European countries. The population here in the UK is strongly growing.

Globally speaking, the human species has something of a consumption crisis approaching. We consume too much, and at too great a speed; the demand fuels deforestation, habitat destruction, climate change (through overfarming and destruction of CO2-reducing plant coverage), and the extinction of animal species.

This can all be offset by ethical planning, of course. There's no necessity for anti-natalism. But if the population were to decrease a bit-- or just stabilise without huge growth, even (purely through voluntary lifestyle choices), then the human species can easily cope with it. And the burden on the planet's resources would reduce.

EDIT: To be absolutely clear, I'm not advocating anything for anyone else. It's a personal choice for families to make of course.
 
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Specter Von Baren

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You have a point that a declining birth rate will alter the demographics of a country when coupled with immigration in ways that are indeed regressive. But that is a political choice. It also stands in no comparison to the fact too many kids are raised in an environment of abuse and neglect and as such it shouldn't be actively encouraged to have children unless people really want it themselves. Even financial incentives to bump the birth rate will only encourage the wrong kind of people to have children.

I find it hard to believe that people with no dating success in their twenties will end up in a first time relationship in their thirties. I'd say the opposite is true; when someone lacks any kind of relationship or dating experience into their thirties then particularly women would find that pretty strange. After 30 with no experience I'd say chances are pretty slim to still find someone. Unless you really just want to settle for anyone which I guess many people do.
When people get together or how changes with the times. Just because we're entering a different era of this doesn't mean people won't get together. Different societies in different ages, even in the modern era, can have wildly different expected ages for when people begin to reproduce, and that's not just being older than the norm as you know.
 
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stroopwafel

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Finland appears to be a bit of an outlier, in that population could realistically begin to decrease in the next few decades, which isn't the case for most European countries. The population here in the UK is strongly growing.

Globally speaking, the human species has something of a consumption crisis approaching. We consume too much, and at too great a speed; the demand fuels deforestation, habitat destruction, climate change (through overfarming and destruction of CO2-reducing plant coverage), and the extinction of animal species.

This can all be offset by ethical planning, of course. There's no necessity for anti-natalism. But if the population were to decrease a bit-- or just stabilise without huge growth, even (purely through voluntary lifestyle choices), then the human species can easily cope with it. And the burden on the planet's resources would reduce.
I totally agree with you but the only problem is that people getting older and older is one of the (main) reasons of population growth since birth rates in western countries are just around or slightly below replenishment rates. The question is more; when the workforce is shrinking who is going to take care of them? The welfare state in particular no longer stands in proportion to the amount of payers and receivers. People who say immigration is the solution also forget this costs more money than it actually delivers, and this is ignoring all the social tensions it brings.

At one point we'll just have to accept a lower standard of living and that more people die at a lower age.
 

stroopwafel

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When people get together or how changes with the times. Just because we're entering a different era of this doesn't mean people won't get together. Different societies in different ages, even in the modern era, can have wildly different expected ages for when people begin to reproduce, and that's not just being older than the norm as you know.
Could be, could be. I guess time will tell. But if you extrapolate existing trends I'd say it's an unlikely outcome.
 

McElroy

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You have a point that a declining birth rate will alter the demographics of a country when coupled with immigration in ways that are indeed regressive. But that is a political choice. It also stands in no comparison to the fact too many kids are raised in an environment of abuse and neglect and as such it shouldn't be actively encouraged to have children unless people really want it themselves. Even financial incentives to bump the birth rate will only encourage the wrong kind of people to have children.
Having kids ticks a special box in our selfish genetics. Failure of parenting is rarely systematic, and so it's a look in hindsight, saying woulda, coulda, shoulda. If the environment and quality of life etc. are good for any adult they are usually good for a parent too. Who and who wants kids doesn't have that much to do with it, they might even regret it. And really just any problem you can imagine, someone's had it with their child somewhere.

I find it hard to believe that people with no dating success in their twenties will end up in a first time relationship in their thirties. I'd say the opposite is true; when someone lacks any kind of relationship or dating experience into their thirties then particularly women would find that pretty strange. After 30 with no experience I'd say chances are pretty slim to still find someone. Unless you really just want to settle for anyone which I guess many people do.

There was a study a while back that showed that more people 65+ were having sex than people in the prime of their life. Whether by choice or not it's a trend that isn't magically upended when people reach age 30. It's not like ''yeah I didn't date or had a very active sex life in my twenties but now I'm 30 so let's marry and have kids''. I find that very hard to believe. People are also still young enough for the 80/20 rule to apply. Even if the unlikely opportunity presented itself it's like going straight into heavy responsibilities and skipping the fun part that preceded it. Who does that?
It is still relatively rare (maybe 10%) for those that want a partner to end up without one by 39. Still it can definitely happen. The princes and princesses get together and thus the 20/80 can't really apply. People lower their standards and I guess they change too.

And if all else fails most westerners still have an ace up their sleeve: a passport. Personally I find modern relationship dynamics so uneven and sexist that I'll probably do just that and get a wife from SEA that's fifteen years younger than me when I get the chance (and I'll be at least 33). At least then there would be no guessing about any power dynamics.
 

McElroy

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Annoying as heck, but I have to double post for technical reasons.
Finland appears to be a bit of an outlier, in that population could realistically begin to decrease in the next few decades, which isn't the case for most European countries. The population here in the UK is strongly growing.

Globally speaking, the human species has something of a consumption crisis approaching. We consume too much, and at too great a speed; the demand fuels deforestation, habitat destruction, climate change (through overfarming and destruction of CO2-reducing plant coverage), and the extinction of animal species.

This can all be offset by ethical planning, of course. There's no necessity for anti-natalism. But if the population were to decrease a bit-- or just stabilise without huge growth, even (purely through voluntary lifestyle choices), then the human species can easily cope with it. And the burden on the planet's resources would reduce.

It's a personal choice for families to make of course.
A very reasonable, level-headed reply. Though I'm vary of the global humanist sentiment because I've seen it give rise to the idea that our continued existence can be outsourced into some other land because globally there is enough population growth.

And hey, overconsumption can be dealt technology and a little genocide on the side that's reported on the 2nd half of the paper so I'll never read about it. If it's in the paper at all *cough* China *cough*.
 

Baffle

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But women DO talk more with each other than men. Or are we just dropping the scientific and anecdotal evidence of women being more open with each other and men bottling up things because it's not convenient for this topic?
Are business meetings really the place for men to unload their bottled up feelings? I wouldn't if I were a man. Which I don't and I am.
 

Trunkage

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Are business meetings really the place for men to unload their bottled up feelings? I wouldn't if I were a man. Which I don't and I am.
I would point out that online discourse seems to be dominated by men. So are speaking circuits. I would say men, at this time, is far more public with their feelings than women. But that’s a societal expectation
 

BrawlMan

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Another thread that has gotten off topic. You're not even talking about the asshole chief anymore.
 

TheMysteriousGX

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For some reason, we need to sus out whether or not the sexist old dude who doesn't like talking with female executives has a point or not.

I don't really get it
 
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Agema

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Another thread that has gotten off topic. You're not even talking about the asshole chief anymore.
In a way, I can't find it within me to get too bothered by creaky old dinosaurs who, whilst still perhaps with some uses, amble around the world making fools of themselves, in evident confusion at the existence of social progress and that it's not the 1960s anymore. They will soon be gone.

It's the 20- and 30-somethings that think the same way we need to worry about.
 

BrawlMan

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It's the 20- and 30-somethings that think the same way we need to worry about.
True, but it's at least somewhat related to the situation at hand and more so. I am not upset or anything, just pointing out the current scenario. Some people makes points, but some of you guys and gals got some bottle up feelings right now. Nothing to be ashamed about, but if you can and if there's availability, seek some to talk to. Y'all have a good one and stay safe.