Tom and Jerry cartoons carry racism warning.

[ObsidianJones_v1legacy]

Do you all rap? Do you all hate white people? Where you ever in jail? Do you own a gun? Do you really like Fried Chicken? Do you really like white women? [snip] Their answer is always the same: "I never met a black person before/Had chance to talk to one, so all I know is what I've seen."

I live in a particularly white part of the world myself (my elementary school had only one black student during my entire career there, and my high school only had one black student for two months), and even so, the person you described is very weird to me. What the fuck TV and movies are they watching?

From the American Midwest. From Canada (when I studied Montreal and some how being an American Black man was wild and different). From other parts of the world (Montreal was really a hub of multiculturalism).

Hell, my ex's parents (she was from China) wanted to make sure that I teach her to use my gun in case she needed to defend herself.

I've never owned a gun. But from tv, they thought black men were... I don't know, issued one at their 12th birthday or something.

 

[JimB]

From the American Midwest.

I have lived in Missouri all my life. Huh. There but for the grace of God, I guess.

Hell, my ex's parents (she was from China) wanted to make sure that I teach her to use my gun in case she needed to defend herself.

I've heard that China has a problem with black people, but this is the closest to firsthand testimony I've ever gotten...or wait, do you mean to protect herself from people other than you? Eh, either way, it's still a little fucked up.

Well, never mind, I don't want to keep talking about my experiences; I worry that it will come off as me saying yours didn't happen, or are invalid. That's not what I mean to do at all. It's just so far out of my own experience that it's hard for me to wrap my head around ("People have gone up to this dude and asked him if every single black person on the planet likes fried chicken? How the fuck do they expect him to know? Do they think black people have a hivemind he can access for that racial information?"), and I appreciate you sharing what you've gone through to open our eyes a little. I'm also sorry you've had to go through that kind of treatment.

 

[rgrekejin]

Isn't this what the ratings system is for?

"The following program is rated _. It contains __________, ___________ and ___________"

Alternatively, shows have been sticking warnings in front of themselves for ages. I don't see any problem with this.

(Apparently that's why so many movies start off violent as well, to tell audiences that this is the kind of movie they will be watching)

And yet how many people still ignore the rating system and still complain. It's like the parent complaining about her kids being exposed to Call of Duty and making a campaign to stop the game being sold despite the fact the game is rated 18 and labelled "contains, violence, gore and strong language."

Even when there is a warning, people would still find a way to create a storm.

Well of course. Everyone knows that the purpose of disclaimers, rating systems and content warnings isn't actually to allow people to make informed decisions about what they (and their children) consume, but rather to provide a thin veneer of legal cover for when someone who couldn't be bothered to read the packaging while buying something decides to be offended ex post facto.

On the plus side, they did give us this:

 

[timeformime]

I think everyone agrees that we should see these cartoons through the lens of society as it was, not our own 21st century perspective, which has a real knack for making mountains out of molehills. We assume that heroic nudity is fine in discussing classical and Renaissance art, so why is a slightly different attitude toward race any less accepted in films from a different period? These cartoons were the craft of animation at its best, at a level it never has risen to since. And yet, probably 90% of the time I hear them mentioned, all I hear is the "racism" in them, when what they should be saying is, the (flawlessly voiced, scored and animated) lampooned and exaggerated attitudes of the time. Never mind that not only a fraction of the episodes even feature Mammy Two-Shoes, and whenever she does show up, she shows Tom who's boss. No one ever talks about that, they just have a problem with how her voice sounds. An exaggerated dialect in a cartoon film from 70 years ago, oh no, how awful.

To say that it's a sign of narcissism is right on the money, that we can't see another society's viewpoints other than by judging it against our own values, which we assume to be superior. These cartoons are wonderful, and the "racism" in them, which is really more caricature than racism, should be a footnote to satisfy people who otherwise wouldn't appreciate the cartoons in their own context. I don't have a problem with it being there as a disclaimer, but, really, it should stop being the only reason these classic cartoons are mentioned.

 

[Snotnarok]

Guess we should tag things like Boondocks with "racist" especially with that Stinkmeiner guy using the word ****** like a comma. Regardless of who the character was yelling it at, boy oh boy hard words ahead.
Look, I get avoiding showing kids this and such but tagging this stuff with triggers? Stop. Stop, stop, stop. Different times and we're going to oddly tag something because it's offensive? It's more shocking at the ignorance of people at the time, that skincolor somehow changed things. It's just short of thinking someone wearing a blue shirt is inferior.
As long as they're not cutting them because many cartoons were cut up because of offensive content...again, fine for Cartoon Network at the time but let's have it elsewhere untouched.

 

[JimB]

Don't you think that moral warnings next to a medium someone is going to consume is the road to madness?

Uh...no. Why would it be? What exactly is the outcome you're afraid of here, and how exactly do you think Amazon decrying racism in an ancient cartoon series will lead us there? Please be specific; that's the part I'm trying to understand.

Who gets to write them?

Whoever is creating, producing, and/or distributing the product in question, whose name would be attached to the message and who therefore has an interest in and a right to make their own position clear.

 

[JimB]

Look, I get avoiding showing kids this and such but tagging this stuff with triggers? Stop. Stop, stop, stop.

Why do people keep bringing up triggers? Seriously, did I miss something? Nothing in the article says the warning is a trigger warning; as far as I can tell, that was only brought up by the article's writer as a segue into largely unrelated material meant to stretch the article's length.

 

[ObsidianJones_v1legacy]

Hell, my ex's parents (she was from China) wanted to make sure that I teach her to use my gun in case she needed to defend herself.

I've heard that China has a problem with black people, but this is the closest to firsthand testimony I've ever gotten...or wait, do you mean to protect herself from people other than you? Eh, either way, it's still a little fucked up.

Well, never mind, I don't want to keep talking about my experiences; I worry that it will come off as me saying yours didn't happen, or are invalid. That's not what I mean to do at all. It's just so far out of my own experience that it's hard for me to wrap my head around ("People have gone up to this dude and asked him if every single black person on the planet likes fried chicken? How the fuck do they expect him to know? Do they think black people have a hivemind he can access for that racial information?"), and I appreciate you sharing what you've gone through to open our eyes a little. I'm also sorry you've had to go through that kind of treatment.

As far as I could tell, she scolded them for thinking I owned a gun. But the West is dangerous (tm)! Gunfights at every corner! Drugs! Rampant Crime! and all the rest.. It didn't help that I'm originally from the Bronx. Tie that mindset and where I came from and my race together, there were some ideas. They actually approved of me, but they still had those ideas. That was their way of saying "We want you to keep our girl safe... with the methods of violence that seems to be intrinsic in all of you."

didn't help my ex from saying to me often "I got a broken black guy. you can't sing". But I can't really blame her. One night, we were watching a CBC documentary* about the AIDS epidemic in China's countryside [https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=aids%20epidemic%20in%20rural%20china]. To which my Ex freaked out from West** propaganda. She said the West was trying to damn China because there ISN'T AIDS in China. It's a West problem.

Now, this is the part that I'd like to point out that she is highly 'educated'. She went to schools all over. She came from Nan Jing, one of the most up and coming cities on the planet. But the government swayed info to make people think only the decadent west would have such a thing. Of course, the ill educated in the rural parts of China never even heard of it, so a good majority caught the disease.

Fortunately or unfortunately, depending how you view these things, one of her close friend's mother was a doctor. And her friend confirmed it. It was both of our's first lesson to how eschewed information is given out in China.

Going to my experience with people I deal with now, People from the Midwest who decide that they want to come to Manhattan (and ruin it for the rest of us) it's usually because how much Manhattan is hyped in media. I can't give you actual numbers, but it feels like only a fraction come because it is really one of the hubs of humanity. Most people I've met come to Manhattan living the Carrie Bradshaw Dream of owning it and finding a quirky section of the world that speaks to them so they can rule. If you come with such a limited ideal, I don't really expect that much more.

I've had people come up to me and explain Jay-Z is one of the best modern poets of this time. And their absolute shock to hear that I don't like Jay-Z or most mainstream rap. When I ask why, only a few actually say the truth.

Any 'Black' cause of the day because an instant starter of conversation to try to show they understand my 'plight' as it were. Ferguson, Trayvon Martin, Kids for Cash, Obama, Michael Jackson, Stop and Frisk (that one I really don't have a problem talking about).

It just gets annoying. I see these same people approach other people and ask them questions about themselves. What are you into. What music you like. Just trusting that a conversation can arise just from the sheer fact that we are intelligent people and we'll see where the mood takes us. It makes me feel like the titular 'Other' when their minds have to frantic search for "OMG WHAT IS BLACK?!" subjects so we can relate. I don't do that with them. They don't need to do it with me.


... This was longer than I intended.


*Sidebar, the CBC documentaries are what I really miss from Canada. My Canadian escapists, treasure them. They were really wonderful.

**I just realized. When America does something wrong, people always call them out by name. US sucks for this, America sucks for that. When it's any other nation, It's the West. I've noticed Middle Eastern people do this. I've noticed Asian people do this. Why the blanket for everyone else but scrutiny for Americans?

 

[Parasondox]

Now do you define words like "forcing" and "bullying?" I don't understand how Amazon is forcing its morality on anyone here. A company is saying, "This racially insensitive shit is wrong." That's all. No one is telling you what you're allowed to believe; they're just disagreeing with you. In what sense is that forcing you? In what sense is that bullying you?

Hi, I was being unnecessarily hyperbolic because the other chap was but don't you think that moral warnings next to a medium someone is going to consume is the road to madness? Who get to write them?

The other chap, me, was being unnecessarily hyperbolic? Allow me to grab a seat so you can please explain. Also explain the "road to madness" quote to me.

 

[Buckets]

Would have thought the insane violence would have caused the problems, considering when it was made the race thing was normal for those times. It should maybe have a historical documentary tag aswell.

 

[SonOfAnarchy91]

At least they warn you. Its alot better than editing it out and pretending it never happened like a lot of old shows and films have done before.

 

[V4Viewtiful]

Almost everyone grew up watching these, to be offended now makes you rather sad imo.

Saying that, at least they didn't censor anything.

 

[Promethax]

I don't think anyone's going to magically turn racist from watching some old cartoons. Seems a bit silly to me.

 

[JimB]

This was longer than I intended.

Shit, dude, if you can't go into an overlong rant on the internet, where can you?

 

[JimB]

I don't think anyone's going to magically turn racist from watching some old cartoons. Seems a bit silly to me.

While I agree that a bit character who only occasionally appeared on a cartoon is probably not going to be the tipping point for anyone ("Well, I wasn't going to join the Klan, but then I saw the one where the black woman grabbed Tom by the scruff of his neck"), I am curious how exactly you think racism is spread, Promethax, if it's not through transmission of and exposure to racist ideas.

 

[MrBaskerville]

I'm fine with the disclaimer cause the cartoons in question does feature some problematic stuff, and it is worthy of discussion. But i will say that i never caught any of the problematic references as a kid, maybe the black face being the exception. I always kinda thought that the black woman in the house was the owner, only got it when i grew up and got a broader perspective on things. It shouldn't be censored out as it's an important part of culture history, as unfortunate as it might be. It's defineately better to acknowledge and educate than to censor and forget.

With that said, i would probably save a certain Tintin comic and less fortunate Bug Bunny cartoons for the history lessons instead of releasing them broadly om the air or in the book stores. Tintin in Africa probably don't belong alongside normal Tintin releases, or am i the only one who sees it like this? It's kind of a grey area, how exactly should we deal with this stuff?

 

[MrBaskerville]

I don't think anyone's going to magically turn racist from watching some old cartoons. Seems a bit silly to me.

While I agree that a bit character who only occasionally appeared on a cartoon is going to be the tipping point for anyone ("Well, I wasn't going to join the Klan, but then I saw the one where the black woman grabbed Tom by the scruff of his neck"), I am curious how exactly you think racism is spread, Promethax, if it's not through transmission of and exposure to racist ideas.

I know it's a an extreme example and it's probably tied very closely to the times, but Birth of Nation actually helped restart the whole KKK movement if i'm not entirely mistaken. So it can certainly have an effect, but old Tom and Jerry cartoons probably aren't going to cause much harm. But media isn't entirely harmless, as you yourself suggest^^.

Btw, sorry for poorly written text, my english is a bit rusty.

 

[Vivi22]

Seems fairly stupid and pointless to be honest. Pretty much every cartoon from that time had some sort of content that could be considered racist or politically incorrect by today's standards. People that don't know this by know are fairly oblivious to basic history and have no one to blame but themselves.

A lot of people these days may not have even seen them, and many that did probably saw them as children and don't even remember the racist undertones. Having a warning there so they're aware of it before just letting their kids see something they may have seen when they grew up is the complete opposite of stupid since it lets them know they may want to revisit it, and possibly watch it with their kids to discuss the context if they do decide to let them watch it.

It kind of feels like censoring renaissance paintings because of nudity, I always thought it was better to leave such things as is and let people form their own opinions on things that were considered wholly appropriate in older eras of history.

This is absolutely nothing like censorship on any level.

 

[Emanuele Ciriachi]

I think this is just silly, racial stereotypes are not the same thing as racism.
I'm Italian, should similar warnings be shown every time we play Super Mario?

Bah, what a bunch of whiney oversensitive crybabies are out there.