Too much hand holding in today's games?

[Aircross]

Back in my days Games used to just let the player experiment and learn how the mechanics of the game worked and gave them challenges to apply their knowledge.

Nowadays it seams that games just slap a big text box on the player's display saying "go from point A to point B by doing this and doing that," "use this to do that," "hit the enemy at this specific point to kill them," and "then do this to complete that."

What happened to just letting players figure things out for themselves?

 

[Lucem712]

Well, most games I play have the first mission as a tutorial and then release you. Occasionally throwing up a text box because you've been on the same puzzle for 30 minutes. I think it also helps in games with a-lot of different actions, I don't remember what game it was but I didn't realize til about halfway through how to do a certain action and I'm like, 'geez, that'd been nice to know'

Also, playing Skyrim with the claw doors. I thought it had to do something with the size of the animals/creatures depicted on the wheels. When it wasn't that, I thought it was the alphabetical ordering of the animals' names. I submitted to the wikia after being wrong many many times. I then realized that the bottom of the claws had the pattern on them. Never occurred to me to look there. So, eh, maybe I'm a bit slow.

Edit: I like the idea of spreading it out. Giving the basics and then just kind of shooting up a text box when you gain a new ability or you need an advanced move. InFamous style.

 

[Kahunaburger]

YES.

I'm a strong proponent of having interesting mechanics that interact in interesting ways, and standing back and letting the player master them.

The problem is that it's easier to create and balance challenge that tests rote mastery of an easy system rather than create and balance challenges that require creativity and strategy.

Bosses with telegraphed attacks and giant glowing fuck-me lights are easier to design than bosses that take lots of damage, move fast, hit hard, and require actual tactics to defeat. It's easier to design "cinematic," highly scripted shooter levels than it is to code a half-decent AI. It's easier to design an RPG that forces parties into tank/AOE/DPS/heals than it is to design a more flexible system that requires parties to adjust tactics for different enemies.

Of course, the rote mastery sort of challenge, as well as being easier to design, is less fun to play.

 

[roushutsu]

Probably a variety of reasons. Maybe the developers overestimated the difficulty of their game? Maybe they're trying to appeal to a wider audience and hope that new people will be enticed? Maybe they were seeing it as vital tutorial stuff that they added at last minute?

I'm not sure what the answer is exactly, but regardless I do agree that it's getting very annoying. I don't mind having text boxes and directions when I'm first playing and learning the controls, but throwing it at you throughout the game constantly is beyond annoying.

 

[Lucem712]

~Le Snip~

Sorry, I just noticed your post count/Join date and felt the need to say, 'Hello!'

So, HOLA! Welcome to the Escapist!

 

[krazykidd]

Hmm. Sort of.

These days barely any game allows you to fall into a 'impossible scenario'. I remember back in the old days if you didn't do something right, or didn't pick up something along your path then you were basically screwed.

But you know...that's not necessarily a BAD thing.

I think thats taking it a bit too far , but i agree with OP , too much hand holding , even for mature games. If a game is rated 18+ don't treat me like a 6 year old . Yes i understand that there are casual gamers that don't game every day or very often , but even then they are not stupid . People have be taught to think logically from a young age , they are able to think. Worst case add a help button for those who need it

 

[teh_Canape]

depends
there's games that that kind of tutorials are pretty much needed, such as resource-based strategy games, or ones with unique shit like 7th Legion's battle card mechanics

but for others, don't think there's really a need to
I mean, shit, Metroid and Super Metroid didn't have any, they just dropped you into a (relatively) empty zone for you to dick around and get the hang of controls
same as Castlevania Symphony of the Night, that you were given all that overpowered shit for you to dick around with and get used to its core mechanics without much concern until they take all that away when you know how to handle yourself =P

 

[Cranky]

It really depends on the game you are playing. I'd say if one is playing a complicated JRPG text boxes are definitely needed. Lord knows how much time I've wasted in many a JRPG just wandering around looking for something that I thought was missing.

On the other hand, most games that require only a bit of logic to work now treat their players like 4 year olds. (Who may even know how to play without help.)

 

[ResonanceSD]

Ah. Yes. When the hardest setting of DE:HR isn't a challenge, you know the game's too easy. Or I'm just that good.

 

[boag]

Back in my days Games used to just let the player experiment and learn how the mechanics of the game worked and gave them challenges to apply their knowledge.

Nowadays it seams that games just slap a big text box on the player's display saying "go from point A to point B by doing this and doing that," "use this to do that," "hit the enemy at this specific point to kill them," and "then do this to complete that."

What happened to just letting players figure things out for themselves?

Well most the new games Ive played let you skip the tutorial and turn off the Hints and tips.

 

[RedFeather1975]

I liked how in valkyrie profile they never taught how to use the many nuances to the crystal making powers.
Passed by so many areas wondering how the heck I get to them, and eventually from playing the game I discover a new technique from experimenting with the powers, and realize how to finally get to those secret areas.

 

[roushutsu]

~Le Snip~

Sorry, I just noticed your post count/Join date and felt the need to say, 'Hello!'

So, HOLA! Welcome to the Escapist!

Thanks! Probably could have picked a better time to join, what with the Mass Effect 3 and all, but meh.

 

[Lucem712]

~Le Snip~

Sorry, I just noticed your post count/Join date and felt the need to say, 'Hello!'

So, HOLA! Welcome to the Escapist!

Thanks! Probably could have picked a better time to join, what with the Mass Effect 3 and all, but meh.

Yeaaaaaaaaaah. I don't think any other major release are coming up for awhile, so there will be some peace in a bit. I hope you enjoy your stay and don't get pulled into arguments by trolls

 

[TehCookie]

Yes, I liked it when games through you into the world with only the most basic of knowledge and if you needed help that's what the manual was there for. Even if they have a help screen you can't read those on the toilet

Besides people get stumped on different things.

Also, playing Skyrim with the claw doors. I thought it had to do something with the size of the animals/creatures depicted on the wheels. When it wasn't that, I thought it was the alphabetical ordering of the animals' names. I submitted to the wikia after being wrong many many times. I then realized that the bottom of the claws had the pattern on them. Never occurred to me to look there. So, eh, maybe I'm a bit slow.

I love old adventure games so I got that my second try but it took me a week to figure out how to smelt ore and make my own weapons (and yes it is my first Elder Scrolls game). I've heard people talk about lowering the cost of spells and I still haven't figured out a way besides the skill tree. Imagine how long a tutorial would be for a game like that, it gives me the shudders.

Sometimes it's more fun to explore and find that stuff out for yourself and other times you want to learn how not to suck, if you're forced through a tutorial it takes away the options. The information should be there, but not forced.

 

[Kahunaburger]

You ever played Call Of Duty on Veteran? It can get quite difficult at some points. Or maybe you're one of those tools who just bashses COD at every chance you get.

Hi, I'm a tool who bashes CoD at every chance I get.

I think it's emblematic of exactly the sort of problem OP is talking about, since recent CoD games are over-scripted. Enemies have very limited A.I., and there's very little dynamic content in the game. The difficulty's a strange sort - it's not about tactics, and it's not really even about twitch (especially not on consoles - yay auto-aim!) it's more about figuring out where in the level the devs intend you to be, and how they intend you to avoid the next scripted threat. As mentioned above, IMO this is because it's easier to micro-manage gameplay with scripting than it is to make good enemy AI. It just isn't as fun.

 

[DeadYorick]

Publishers think console gamers are impatient and retarded.

http://kotaku.com/5893236/christian-allen-wants-your-money-to-make-a-great-old+school-shooter-that-publishers-dont-think-you-want?utm_campaign=socialflow_kotaku_facebook&utm_source=kotaku_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow

If you guys keep buying horseshit like COD year after year, your just enforcing those beliefs.

You ever played Call Of Duty on Veteran? It can get quite difficult at some points. Or maybe you're one of those tools who just bashses COD at every chance you get.

-Missing the point

What he said was "impatient" not easy. Hand Holding doesn't necessarily mean easy. Say your being hand held across the street while you have an irrational fear of cars. What hand holding does decree is lack of thinking, hence the article explaining developers making scenes in games that do all the thinking for you.