Too Much WoW Hate?

[Terramax]

But the problem is, if you've never gone in depth to the game, you simply can't sit there judging it.

That's with any game. But I argue if a game is rated as high as WoW it should be incredible right off the bat.

I played the game for 4 days and found every minute boring. Reason being, at the time I'd stopped playing Final Fantasy XI: Online which I prefered.

What I loved about FFonline was it was detailed and gigantic (the characters in WoW looked like model figurins), locations seemed a lot less cliched than those in Wow - but the most important reason, FFOnline FORCED you to work as a team to get remotely far.

The only way to get further than level 10 on FFonline was to make a party of 6. Sure, there were some rude players on the game, but not near as many as what I've seen on xbox games.

99% of people respected the fact that you had to work as a team. There were specific strategies that you had to follow, and everyone had to play their part.

FFonline seemed like an evolution in the genre compared to the MMORPG I played before it - Phantasy Star Online.

But Wow was a step backwards. I understand you CAN work as a team, but it didn't appear to have the same immersive effect as that in FFonline, and not as critical.

I've played other MMORPGs (Phantasy Star Universe, RF: Online) but they're all the same. Soloing around people who never speak to you even when you try to. To me, it feels more lonely than playing a solo game with no NPC characters.

 

[Lampdevil]

FFOnline FORCED you to work as a team to get remotely far.

Cripes, that's the reason that a lot of people gave up on the game. Teaming makes for excellent play experiences, don't get me wrong! And I like playing with teams of close-knit folk. And if FFXI's teaming system resulted in epic party adventures all the time, I'd still be playing it.

The reality of it? Well, I made it to the dunes before I started going "ARRRRRRGH". From what I can tell, the Dunes are something like the newbie-filter. If you can get past that first hump, then you'll proceed on with the rest of the game. Sadly, that first hump totally... uh... humped me. It was one part my friends not playing with me, one part the Gilgamesh server hating my guts and booting me slowly and painfully every few hours, and one part terrible, terrible pick-up parties in the Dunes.

Heck, even TERRIBLE parties, I can deal with. It's that it takes so long to actually GET the party, that makes me all sad in the MMORPG-pants. I want to play a game when I set aside a few hours in the evening. I don't want to wait another hour, doing the "ooh pick me pick me!" dance.

It's a goddamn gorgeous game. I still have friends that play, on and off. And if I had all the time in the world to devote to it, I'd still be playing it. But PSU and WoW allow me to do something on my own sometimes, and opt to party up with other folks at other times. And when I team up with people? I do try to be chitchatty when it doesn't compromise the action. But yes, because it's not as critical in WoW? Those valuable, heartwarming team experiences just don't happen as much.

(Oh yes, off-topic... as a PSO fan(?), have you heard that PSO:BB is closing and the servers are free to play up until the end?)

 

[Gauwin]

"But Wow was a step backwards. I understand you CAN work as a team, but it didn't appear to have the same immersive effect as that in FFonline, and not as critical."

Well, then the only problem there is that you can work as a team in wow, for a bonus, but when it comes to the REAL game, other then leveling you toon, you need to work as a team, or else you are not going to do anything.

You reach 70. What do you do? Oh ill pve. Oh wait, i need a party for that.
Ill pvp. oh wait, i need partners for arena teams, or co-works in bg's.

WoW has the default of not taking 0-69 seriously, meaning you can solo it easily, bypassing many content. But when you get to 70, you have to GROUP up to actually PLAY what the leveling has been preparing you for.

Low level instances? Quests? All a way to make you explore the areas, give you some inside in some storys, get your rep up with that faction and reward loots to help you level, and also greats amounts of gold if your not a spender, that will allow you to learn you class skills progressevily, and allow you create a pocket full of gold for your level 70 expenses.

 

[Melty Blood]

Whats irritating me about the Wow players mentality, is they keep refraining to "Oh you can do so much with this and that", and ignore the big thing that some people would prefer not to be on a treadmill, I'd definatly be willing to say "You know what? I don't like this, and anything like it. I don't like the entire concept or gameplay associated with it. You may like it, and that's fine, but I just DON'T" Some argue that as soon as you get to level 70 the gameplay redeems itself, but if I buy a game, the first half of the game of balls-breaking monotony shouldn't have to be redeemed by the second half. Again, some people like that stuff, and thats FINE, but I don't.

As painful as it is to admit, they must've done something right to warrant 10 million subscribers.

... I just had one oh them Idears...

 

[Melty Blood]

Melty Blood, if you create another WoW clone I will have to murder you in your sleep.

If I die in my sleep won't I not know the true terror and fear of being trapped in a room crying and awaiting my execution, and/or lamenting the torture (And possible rape) to come?

Or perhaps the terrifying experience of being terrible mutilated and unable to move, left in the wood, and having rats, among other animals nibble at my shivering body, mistaking it for a fresh corpse, as tears run down my face as the pain being too excruciating to move?

You can do a lot better then killing one in one's sleep, I know you can.

 

[Terramax]

Gauwin and Lampdevil, you both make valid points, and I guess what it boils down to is what you play these games for.

When I play online games, I play them to meet people on them. If I can't interact with people on online games, I don't see any point in making it online when it would be just as simple to make offline.

Fair enough, FPS games online are justified (or too justified as I end up getting snipered on games like PC Halo literally the second I'm spawned) but I just cannot take MMORPGs without creating some good friends.

FFXI was a good game for me as I was a white mage, whom where often treated like gold dust. I did have problems finding PTs many a times, but I was more valuable than other jobs.

What I failed to mention in more detail is whilst I created these parties, I made some great many friends. There was one woman who was so fond of our little community she started asking us all about her boyfriend who was treating her like dirt.

Over time I was able to find like minded people, just like I do on certain forums, and that is why I stuck with FFonline for 9 months until my coursework went downhill.

But I can understand this game isn't for everyone. Just like WoW isn't for everyone.

I don't hate WoW. Although I do resent one of my closest friends having seeming disappeared off of the face of the earth because that game is literally all he does when he's not working...

 

[Lampdevil]

I don't hate WoW. Although I do resent one of my closest friends having seeming disappeared off of the face of the earth because that game is literally all he does when he's not working...

Haven't we all lost friends and loved ones to this game? My rude crack about "only having sex on Tuesday" isn't too far from my own personal experience. An aquaintance of mine had her car break down, and needed to rely on her boyfriend to get her to and from work. There was a snowstorm. And a minor medical emergency. And the boyfriend was too busy running his guildmates through Wailing Caverns (that's a low-level instance, BTW) to get up off his worthless behind and go get her.

I theorize that if it weren't WoW rendering these people into dysfunctional sacks of flesh, it would be another game. But when you take into account WoW's popularity with folk that wouldn't normally touch an MMORPG... yeah, it's probably messed up a lot of folks that might have otherwise been fine.

 

[[HD]Rob Inglis]

This is true with many games and gamers. I myself have prejudices about some games, even though I haven't played some of them. Perhaps seeing for myself the actual game-play might change how I perceive these games.

 

[ComradeJim270]

I played WoW on a friend's account for a while (he was a very busy person, so there was a lot of time where I could get on and he couldn't) and found that playing WoW made me sleepy. I shit you not. I nearly fell asleep every time I played it... like... it somehow paradoxically kept me enthralled before my screen while simultaneously boring me to sleep.

Don't ask me to explain why this occured, because I have no clue.

I had the same experience when playing WoW. I think it's because of the whole "it's gonna get better once I level up" thing, as if maybe by getting through monotonous crap, we'll end up having fun afterwards. It's like I was convincing myself that by digging through a mountain of turd, I'd eventually find a speck of gold.

However, that's a load of crap, especially with RF's insane grinding. I remember playing another Mumorpuger, RF Online for 2 hours (felt like 3 or 4) before I finally said "fuck this," and deleting it from my computer.

Yeah, I think I got to about level 24 before I just sort of shrugged and went "Meh, gonna go play Guild Wars, now, because this game is mindless and I just wasted hours upon hours to increase a number in my stats".

 

[Sayvara]

Pouring acidous comments on World of Warcraft falls into the same category as Microsoft-bashing and US-hatred: they are the biggest, fattest, richest targets out there. Not to say that some of the criticism isn't warranted... but mostly it's just because they are an easy, gratuitous target.

Currently in WoW I'm working my way up with two characters at lvl 25 and 34 respectively. While WoW isn't unique and or original in all aspects I can certainly see its appeal: it's a very mature (in the sense meaning "complete") product with plenty of content; it has a balanced level of complexity and pacing making it readilly available and appealing to everyone between 12 and 99 years old while fitting both casual slowpokes and hardcore power-levelers alike; all while being fairly lenient when it comes to hardware requirements. Anyone can play WoW.

Other MMORPGs I have played/am playing are DDO, LotRO, CoX and a touch of SWG (and NWN on a public RP server). While WoW doesn't excel in everything and the others can beat WoW in individual areas - DDO for diversity in making a character build and wonderfully crafted quests; LotRO for breathtakingly beautiful graphics, the epic storyline and fantastic Tokien lore behind it; CoX for toon building that lets me make a huge-busted superheroine in spandex clothing and other such fun in a campy Adam West's Batman-style superhero setting; and SWG for being Star Wars - World of Warcraft is just like Microsoft in that they are the one that manages to be good enough in the most areas while at the same time being accessible to a great many people.

So... is there alot of WoW bashing? Yes there is. Is it warranted? Yes and No.

In the end it's a subjetive matter of taste and preference as to which one you like best to play. If someone doesn't like your choice and calls you mean words for your choice... well then they can go eff themselves and that is the end of the discussion.

Personally I'm holding my breath for Age of Conan because me and me guildies have grand plans for creating an RP haven in that game. But Funcom better get those damned bugs sorted out before I choke! *mutters impatiently*

/S

P.S: I'm not american... in fact I'm scandinavian. I still think that people hate the US way too much.

 

[ComradeJim270]

I just can't get into any MMOs (Guild Wars is not quite an MMO). They make me feel like Sisyphus... and, going with that analogy, I know that if I do push that rock over to the other side of the hill, I'll have nothing to do on that hill anymore, or at least nothing worth paying for. It's not just WoW, it's MMOs as a genre that make me feel like this.

 

[SeraphCentral]

Here's my take on WoW.


People see it as nothing but grinding till you get 70 then it's like... what now?
People see this as mindless, pointless, and a waste of time and money, and if you've never played the game or you've just never really liked MMO's where grind is a factor (for the record, most MMO's have some form of grind) then of course you won't see the point of spending hours on end just to say "DING!" in guild/say/general etc etc then this is probably your view of it.

Unfortunately however, numbers do not lie. Although we can attribute million or so accounts to RMT's and 2nd accounts, there are a considerable amount of people who do pay to play this game. And really IMHO, if it's your first MMO, then it's really easy to get addicted. It's quick, easy, and by God it's fun as hell to see that bar fill up for a level.

Is it the best MMO ever? Not in my opinion. Is it the most addicting? That's to be seen, I'm not sure if we've had any couples breaking up over WoW (see Everquest) or any dead children yet (see Everquest again). Is it fun? I thought it was. At least till I got to 70 and just sort of fell out of it. Is it worth 15$ a month? Well, let's look at it this way, if you got a new next gen game for let's say 50-60 dollars, you would expect that game to keep you for at least a couple weeks before getting a new one. For 15 bucks a month, you get a game that can't exactly be beaten.

All in all, it's really up to what you want in a game. But I do agree with the OP that if you're gonna try to say something about WoW at least pick up the damn game (the WoW game on it's own I think is now 20 bucks with) and go play for a week or two before you start saying that it sucks ass and it's all about the grind and whatnot. Come to think of it... you can probably say the same about video games, books, and movies. But that's a different topic.

Anyway, just thought I'd give my two cents.

 

[Melty Blood]

Is it the best MMO ever? Not in my opinion. Is it the most addicting? That's to be seen, I'm not sure if we've had any couples breaking up over WoW (see Everquest) or any dead children yet (see Everquest again)

If I'm not mistaken, Wow holds the record for largest online funeral where some asian Kid played consistantly for three days, without eating/sleeping/whatever, and just died.

 

[defcon 1]

RPG's like that almost never make a good impression. You start out with a few skills and do the same thing over and over again until you acquire enough exp to gain a variety of abilities and figure out more strategies(Final Fantasy). I have people who played WoW and hate it, because they can only tolerate it for a day before canceling the subscription. In a way I can't blame them because psychological the first impression is the most significant.

Never played it but I like the idea. Meet new people (weed out the numbskull's)and implement teamwork across a world(although divided due to the lack of space-age technology, is still one world). The road is a lot longer because theres 'more' to look forward to. New areas to explore people to meet, abilities to learn. It's like a whole new world rather than a division of levels where you just start a new match and do it over again. and thats the impression I get. Games like this have to have good artwork and design to go with it, and that's one thing Blizzard's good at.

About the battle system. Some people find it lame to point and click and in a way I can see how that's lame but I enjoy games like Chess, Hold'em, Euchre, Warhammer and so forth. Those games are more data driven and (for me at least) I really like those kind of strategies. In a way RPG's are pretty much just tabletop games with a makeover and Tolkien creatures.

I want to play the game but I also don't want to spend $15 a month. Just like Warhammer, it'll suck all my cash.

One thing I can't figure out is how it's so addicting. Sure every game has their hopeless group of fans but games like WoW and Everquest seem like a public issue. Has there been a determined cause for such a large group of addicts?

 

[Melty Blood]

You can do a lot better then killing one in one's sleep, I know you can.

I could and, in fact, if you look up my IRC quotes on Google, you'll know just how terrible I can be.

But, for the sake of not getting another thread closed, I'll avoid that

Ahh, the magic of interpretive murder (And we'll leave it at that)

 

[sapient]

One thing I can't figure out is how it's so addicting. Sure every game has their hopeless group of fans but games like WoW and Everquest seem like a public issue. Has there been a determined cause for such a large group of addicts?

I guess after playing WoW for a long time (release -> October '07) I'm surprised I didn't get too sucked in by the game. Yes, I was addicted at certain points but the easiness of me letting go of the game truly surprised me.

To really see how a person gets addicted you have to look at their gameplay experience. There's always something to do in WoW - raiding, grinding, PvP, 5 mans, heroics, something. And if you have too much free time for just one day you can fall into the trap of constant play.

Say you're a Warrior who's just hit level 70 and you want to go down the PvP path for gear. Your first action (as was mine) is to pick up your flying mount for a measly 1100 gold. Not too hard, considering you can make 100g/hour at 70. Your second job is to gear up for PvP so you can move onto the hardcore parts of the game. So, where to start? Easy! Farm some primals and Blacksmithing/Mining skill to get your epic crafted weapon! A weapon is the most important part of a warrior, so you have to do this!

As such, the player starts grinding with a sense of purpose.

This can take several days or even weeks (Blacksmithing is ungodly and difficult to level). Okay, got your Thunder? Sweet! Now, you have to go and get a few decent epics to start out your arena journey. Great. Pick up some tanking gear and run a few instances - get some gear. There are heaps of instances at 70 to choose from, and they've all got great gear.

With so much to do, the player starts to get addicted to the game. The player wants to systematically reach his or her goal, and therefore keeps playing more and more. The goal is so far away, however, the player has to donate more of their time to reaching this goal before everyone else gets there and ruins it for the player. WoW moves quickly if you think smart, and anyone can get to the top easily.

So you've picked up some S1 gladiator gear from battlegrounds, some select gear from instances and you're decked out to start arena.

Wait! Your weapon needs an upgrade!

So you walk off and do some instances to get primals and upgrade your Thunder to a Deep Thunder. Another few days down the drain.

It's time to start Arena. Find a few good players, make a team (farm gold for the charter) and start fighting. After a few weeks, you have the points to buy yourself an S2 set, and after a month or two you're completely decked out in S2 and epics. Brilliant. Now for S3.

This can take more than just a few months. S3 requires rating as well as points, so your team has to be good. You spend more and more time practicing in skirmishes and battlegrounds. Your days slip by to Tuesdays as you watch your points and rating go up. I'm making it sound easier than it is, but for a few people I know this was a very time consuming and harsh experience.

Finally, you've picked up your full S3 set after months of Arena, Battlegrounds, Dailies and other assorted PvP and PvE. You've clocked 60+ days of play time on the game. You're decked out in full epics. You can kill what you want, where you want, how you want.

What to do now? Find a raiding guild and go DPS. Go through this with another character. Wait for Season 4 arena.

Fuck.

So as you can see, the process will ultimately lead on and on until Wrath of the Lich King, where it starts again. The game traps them with a grind, leads them with a sense of achievement and forces them to start over again. The process takes months, but Blizzard gets your money.

The tanking route which I took was severely shortened by players kissing my ass (tanks are rare). But it's somewhat the same - grind, gain, grind, gain, grind, gain, grind, gain, repeat/wait. It's an endless spiral, and if you ever get bored you can always walk into Darkshore and pound some newbies.

 

[Um...TE]

I enjoyed the ride to L70. I enjoy quests, story, character development. It's endgame that I can't stand. Wee! We got the first boss down to 40% after a mere two hours of game play. Let's do it all over again tonight! I'm just not obsessive-compulsive enough to find running the same instance over and over and over again, doing the same dance at each major, scripted encounter, fun.

Some people love it, though. They really enjoy seeing forty people act as a cohesive group to accomplish what is only barely possible for them. I can understand and appreciate that.

But to earn my $15/mo, I demand to see new content. Not the same ol', same ol' week in and week out, over and over and over again. When I hit L70, I called the game "won" and cancelled my account. It was late spring and I wasn't about to spend my summer playing WoW.