Transformers. Shit to begin with(not the films)

[Srdjan Tanaskovic]

Now that the third Transformers movie is out there will be a lot of complains. Among of them being how it's bad for the Transformers franchises as a whole, not very true to source and so on

But did it ever occur to anyone that Transformers started as shit? The way I see it the movies are bashed on G1 which is the cartoon everyone watched when they where a kid. And I seen a lot of people that when they look back on it they agree that G1 and the film is in fact just one long toy commercial and shit. I also seen a lot of people who says that Transformers TV series didn't turn good until Beast War

So what do you think? just bad movies? bad source material? should the films have been based on Best War instead?

 

[King Toasty]

I adore the old Transformers cartoons, and Beast War was fantastic. So was War for Cybertron.
Not for everybody I suppose.

Also, the Bay movies were universally shit.

 

[K84]

Alien robots that turn into other stuff and fight each other over resources.
What's shit about that?

I call it awesome.

 

[Cabisco]

To be honest I think plot wise etc it's always been slightly towards the simplistic/shit side. But thats not what transformers is about really, it's about watching giant robots who can transform into cars, jets and in one case a tiny gun shoot each other. EXACTLY what a young kid is looking for in a programme, loved it.

The only flaw I personally found with the new transformers movie was the human element, not even the military I kind of liked that and prefered it to the usual 'oh the humans do fuck all apart from run and scream'. I mean Sam whitwicky and random girl, that sucked.

 

[David Out]

Am I the only one that actually liked the films? Yes that means all three.

 

[Baradiel]

I never watched it as a kid. Even when I thought fairies existed I realised it was awful.

Saying that, I'm now going to take cover and vacate this thread. The shitstorm of nostalgia and fire is about to strike...

 

[Srdjan Tanaskovic]

To be honest I think plot wise etc it's always been slightly towards the simplistic/shit side. But thats not what transformers is about really, it's about watching giant robots who can transform into cars, jets and in one case a tiny gun shoot each other. EXACTLY what a young kid is looking for in a programme, loved it.

That might be true

But is it good even at that?

in G1 are the action scenes action scenes or random firing that never hits?

and even if kids wants just that then thats not reason to make the show good

For example we want to see Batman beat up bad guys. But they can't focus on just that can they?

 

[ZeZZZZevy]

I always thought the whole concept was pretty cool, but obviously it's not something everyone will love.

I'd also like to point out what MovieBob said: "You can make a good movie out of anything."

A good transformers movie can be made, it just needs to be made by someone who actually cares about the source material.

 

[Armored Prayer]

Bad movie overall.

Like its been said many times the movies focus more on the teen drama than the actual robots fighting, which I don't think thats how the G1 cartoons were like.

 

[Srdjan Tanaskovic]

I always thought the whole concept was pretty cool, but obviously it's not something everyone will love.

I'd also like to point out what MovieBob said: "You can make a good movie out of anything."

A good transformers movie can be made, it just needs to be made by someone who actually cares about the source material.

But can you take shit and turn it into something good?

and as much as I like Moviebob he seems a bit hypocritical at times. he says "You can make a good movie out of anything" yet he thinks that a Halo movie with Chef won't work

and then there was something about Halo Reach and Super Mario Galaxy 2 that he said once

 

[Chromanin]

Not being true to the source material is the LEAST of the Michael Bay Transformers movies' problems.

 

[Cabisco]

To be honest I think plot wise etc it's always been slightly towards the simplistic/shit side. But thats not what transformers is about really, it's about watching giant robots who can transform into cars, jets and in one case a tiny gun shoot each other. EXACTLY what a young kid is looking for in a programme, loved it.

That might be true

But is it good even at that?

in G1 are the action scenes action scenes or random firing that never hits?

and even if kids wants just that then thats not reason to make the show good

For example we want to see Batman beat up bad guys. But they can't focus on just that can they?

Agreed. Transformers looking back was always bad, but as a kid I personally loved it and could easily dig out the odd transformer boxed up somewhere in the house. As a kid you don't really look for much in things I guess, you want the toy and you make up some mad shit story about your cat being megatron because you couldn't afford megatron.

Ahhh childhood memories, that cat hated me.

 

[ZeZZZZevy]

I always thought the whole concept was pretty cool, but obviously it's not something everyone will love.

I'd also like to point out what MovieBob said: "You can make a good movie out of anything."

A good transformers movie can be made, it just needs to be made by someone who actually cares about the source material.

But can you take shit and turn it into something good?

and as much as I like Moviebob he seems a bit hypocritical at times. he says "You can make a good movie out of anything" yet he thinks that a Halo movie with Chef won't work

and then there was something about Halo Reach and Super Mario Galaxy 2 that he said once

You're assuming the property is shit to begin with though, where it does have potential. Some ideas simply don't have potential, so I suppose the "anything" was meant to be slightly conditional. Maybe anything (within reason).

 

[Srdjan Tanaskovic]

You're assuming the property is shit to begin with though, where it does have potential. Some ideas simply don't have potential, so I suppose the "anything" was meant to be slightly conditional. Maybe anything (within reason).

I'm not saying that it's impossible to turn Transformers into a good movie

But maybe you need to base it on Bears War and not G1

 

[ZeZZZZevy]

You're assuming the property is shit to begin with though, where it does have potential. Some ideas simply don't have potential, so I suppose the "anything" was meant to be slightly conditional. Maybe anything (within reason).

I'm not saying that it's impossible to turn Transformers into a good movie

But maybe you need to base it on Bears War and not G1

I completely agree with you. Beast Wars simply had a better plot and really interesting robot designs.

 

[Radeonx]

The tv shows were great, as are the movies.
If you take the movies for what they are (Action flicks with crazy explosions and badass robots), it is quite entertaining.

 

[Ursus Buckler]

I did prefer Beast Wars to Transformers and would gladly see a Beast Wars film. Although with the gyp that the Bay movies have inflicted to the franchise I doubt producers will see much mileage in pursuing it.

 

[InsanelyZanter]

and as much as I like Moviebob he seems a bit hypocritical at times. he says "You can make a good movie out of anything" yet he thinks that a Halo movie with Chef won't work

Just because he thinks it CAN be done right does not mean he has confidence that anyone WILL.

 

[Grospoliner]

Yeah you'll see complaints. The films suck and so does Michael Bay. Not only is the cinematography terrible (shaky cam much?) but the action scenes are crammed full of clips that don't mean anything to anyone. Oh look, that big grey robot is beating up that slightly other colored grey robot, who were they again? Why should I care about either? Who was I rooting for?. The films are a mess. Even if he got a terrible script to work with, the director is responsible for turning it into a film. Yeah sure he had a nice run back in the 90s, his early works weren't bad, but ever since we arrived in the 21st century he hasn't been able to make a movie worth watching.

The key here is talent. We all understand that some adaptations don't come out quite right and there are those do and people just don't like them as well. Take the Lord of the Rings for example, the films screwed up on numerous aspects of the novels and even though I don't care for the films, they still came out good. The same with Jurassic Park, it was a hackneyed mash-up of the novel but it came out great in the end.

Source material be damned, we have every right to consider bad films bad and say as much.

 

[thepyrethatburns]

Now that the third Transformers movie is out there will be a lot of complains. Among of them being how it's bad for the Transformers franchises as a whole, not very true to source and so on

But did it ever occur to anyone that Transformers started as shit? The way I see it the movies are bashed on G1 which is the cartoon everyone watched when they where a kid. And I seen a lot of people that when they look back on it they agree that G1 and the film is in fact just one long toy commercial and shit. I also seen a lot of people who says that Transformers TV series didn't turn good until Beast War

So what do you think? just bad movies? bad source material? should the films have been based on Best War instead?

It's a fair opinion but I could counter with:

Video games are shit. 99% of them are just murder simulators with no redeeming value whatsoever.

and that would also be just as correct.

I'm going to put aside the question of product placement because, given the prevalence of advertising, you could make that argument about every single movie made since the 90s that wasn't an arthouse film. (I was surprised to find out that Thor wasn't a big commercial for Acura. I kept wondering how the Asgardian Gods got anywhere because there didn't seem to be a single Acura in sight whenever we went to Asgard.) In fact, most of the cartoons from the 80s to today have been about launching toy lines so it seems odd to single Transformers out for that.

Much like any source material, whether it is shit or not, is in the eye of the beholder. I find Bayformers to be the second worst Transformers version ever (KISS Players would be the worst.) But obviously enough people have liked them to justify two more movies. I liked G1 and Beast Wars (up until it became Beast Machines) but hated Armada. Once again, sales figures seem to indicate that a lot of people liked Armada.

So I guess my question would be "how is it bad source material?" Putting aside the question of whether G1 is better or worse than Beast Wars/Armada/other versions, here is the basic source material:

You have giant transforming robots that are locked in an intergalactic civil war in the classic good vs. evil theme. While the Decepticons seem to have more firepower, the Autobots get the support of races that the Decepticons classify as vermin.

What is shit about that?

As for the second question of whether it would have been better as Beast Wars: *Shrug* Maybe. It would have had fewer humans but, as you've said, the nostalgia factor is strong. It is probable that directly scripting from any generation of Transformers would have led to kvetching. While I don't like Bayformers, it is probably for the best that he just went with his own take on the whole Autobot/Decepticon thing rather than adhere to any previous version.