Transgender People and Attraction OR The Inherent Homophobia in Society

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Lil devils x_v1legacy

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Metanar said:
Lil devils x said:
What exactly does that explain? It is a top notch school, and I am proud to have made it through. " I will belittle it, as in my opinion, they are more concerned about being trapped in a healthy body and do not appreciate the health they do have. They do not appreciate that they were given legs to walk, or sight to see the beautiful world we live in. Instead they focus on one aspect they are not content with and allow it to consume them. That is why I take issue with this, because they are too self absorbed to be grateful for the gifts they were given and to appreciate how lucky they are. Working in my field and dealing with children with real disabilites and seeing how happy they are with themslves and not wanting to be anyone else makes you realize that it isn't what happens to you in life it is completely how you choose to deal with it. A child born without legs and being content that way, gives you a different perspective on what is really important in life.

This one little girl who had was dealt a terrible hand by nature, yet cared nothing for herself or her condition, but was more concerned about those around her, and helping make a real difference in this world probably made the biggest impact on my life and my perspective on these things. Yes, she helped show me how all of these other things really do not matter, as it isn't about how we feel, it is a matter of what we do in the end.

"soul shhattering"- they do not even understand what that means if they think that being dealt a healthy body regardless of gender is a bad thing.
Texas isn't exactly the most progressive American state, and to have qualified in medicine from it frankly doesn't give me much confidence in your knowledge about LGBT matters. Doctors are meant to be compassionate and understanding - something you have yet to demonstrate towards people suffering this condition.

I don't care about your medical experience, your patients, what you've seen, any of it; don't go on about your experience as a doctor, it's irrelevant.

You just don't understand the feeling, since, guess what, you've never felt it before. You're just a bigot who refuses to accept things you can't perceive yourself. So why don't you stop making assumptions about how transsexualism affects people and deal with it.

It's not a waste if it saves a life, and if I knew I couldn't finish my transition, I would kill myself.
I have felt quite a few things, And is why I am not strong enough to work in the burn center. I went through a period in my life where I too was overly concerned with my self and almost didn;t make it out of it, as I woke up choking charcoal when they brought me back. I did techincally kill myself, they brought me back from it. What I learned from that however, is that none of that is important in the least. Nope none of it matters at all. We should be forced to be pushed to our limits so that we can realize the really important things in life and quit focusing on our insignificant imperfections that we see as " huge obstacles" when they really are not. I look at that time in my life as me being terribly selfish and ignorant to the important things in this world. That is the difference. No mine wasn't about being "trapped in the wrong gender" but instead I thought I was "trapped in a body that was impregnated by a rapist" which in the whole of it all, still is insignificant in the whole picture in life here. That is the difference, I have moved past that stage of "wallowing in self pitty", to trying to make a difference in this world. I have been in the darkest place you can be, and learned from that however, rather than try to figure out ways to put myself back there by focusing on things that really don't amount to anything in the end.

As for killing yourself because you didn't get your way, well, that is a cop out. If something happend and the world suddenly changed and it was no longer possible to continue in your endeavor, you would just up and kill yourself over it? You wouldn't at least try to survive and save as many as you can as well? Do you not see how self absorbed that is? Why on earth would you want to do that? yea we all get tough breaks. I cannot do doctors without borders because my immune system is completely screwed. It is all I have ever wanted to do, but I am excluded due to my own medical conditions. Do I just kill myself over it? Of course not. I do what I can do instead. We deal with the cards we are dealt, not just throw up our hands and quit because we didn;t get our way. That would just be .. lame.
 

Metanar

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Lil devils x said:
I have felt quite a few things, And is why I am not strong enough to work in the burn center. I went through a period in my life where I too was overly concerned with my self and almost didn;t make it out of it, as I woke up choking charcoal when they brought me back. I did techincally kill myself, they brought me back from it. What I learned from that however, is that none of that is important in the least. Nope none of it matters at all. We should be forced to be pushed to our limits so that we can realize the really important things in life and quit focusing on our insignificant imperfections that we see as " hug obstacles" when they really are not. I look at that time in my life as me being terribly selfish and ignorant to the important things in this world. That is the difference. No mine wasn't about being trapped in the wrong gender" but instead I thought I was " trapped in a body that was impregnated by a rapist" which in the whole of it all, still is insignificant in the whole picture in life here. That is the difference, I have moved past that stage of "wallowing in self pitty", to trying to make a difference in this world.
"Fuck people who are depressed, they should just man up and deal with it and start making a difference to society"

Spoken like a true utilitarian ignoramus. Guess what, life isn't about making a difference, it's about being HAPPY. Maybe you're happy, or maybe you're brain damaged from your attempt at killing yourself, I don't know, but other people aren't and shouldn't be expected to live according to your values.

My transitioning makes me happy.
 

Lil devils x_v1legacy

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Metanar said:
Lil devils x said:
I have felt quite a few things, And is why I am not strong enough to work in the burn center. I went through a period in my life where I too was overly concerned with my self and almost didn;t make it out of it, as I woke up choking charcoal when they brought me back. I did techincally kill myself, they brought me back from it. What I learned from that however, is that none of that is important in the least. Nope none of it matters at all. We should be forced to be pushed to our limits so that we can realize the really important things in life and quit focusing on our insignificant imperfections that we see as " hug obstacles" when they really are not. I look at that time in my life as me being terribly selfish and ignorant to the important things in this world. That is the difference. No mine wasn't about being trapped in the wrong gender" but instead I thought I was " trapped in a body that was impregnated by a rapist" which in the whole of it all, still is insignificant in the whole picture in life here. That is the difference, I have moved past that stage of "wallowing in self pitty", to trying to make a difference in this world.
"Fuck people who are depressed, they should just man up and deal with it and start making a difference to society"

Spoken like a true utilitarian ignoramus. Guess what, life isn't about making a difference, it's about being HAPPY. Maybe you're happy, or maybe you're brain damaged from your attempt at killing yourself, I don't know, but other people aren't and shouldn't be expected to live according to your values.

My transitioning makes me happy.
BS. I am not saying screw people who are depressed, I am talking about teaching them how to handle these things rather than allow them to consume them. After I committed suicide, They attempted to medicate me, I was only 14 at the time. The medication made me more depressed and they finally took me off it after I put my head through a window. No, what helped me was learning how to handle these things not allow them to consume me. Learning why those things are not important at all.

Life isn't about being happy. If you think it is just about being happy, you are in for a load of grief, and will never survive your latter years. When you get old, everything hurts, your loved ones all die, you suffer greatly everyday. That sure as hell isn't happiness. All that is left in the end is what you have done, not how happy you were.
 

Metanar

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Lil devils x said:
BS. I am not saying screw people who are depressed, I am talking about teaching them how to handle these things rather than allow them to consume them. After I committed suicide, They attempted to medicate me, I was only 14 at the time. The medication made me more depressed and they finally took me off it after I put my head through a window. No, what helped me was learning how to handle these things not allow them to consume me. Learning why those things are not important at all.

Life isn't about being happy. If you think it is just about being happy, you are in for a load of grief, and will never survive your latter years. When you get old, everything hurts, your loved ones all die, you suffer greatly everyday. That sure as hell isn't happiness. All that is left in the end is what you have done, not how happy you were.
The best way of dealing with depression due to GID is to change sex. You can't try to change someone's gender identity, it doesn't work, people suffering depression as a result of GID are proof of this. And furthermore studies about people whose sex was changed soon after birth show that they grew up with GID, further proving the importance of gender identity above sex and that gender is a permanent thing you feel regardless of your sex.

Here's another thing, you were probably given antidepressants, I'm guessing since you were vague. (Possibly on purpose, if you had thought over your post for a couple of seconds you'd see where I'm about to go with this) Anyway, hormones =/= antidepressants, hormones make trans people happy because they finally feel that they are being given the chance to be the person that they want to be, and not be stuck as someone that they are not. Antidepressants don't do that, they're just designed alleviate mood problems, they don't give you a chance to lead a new life like hormones do, they just (sometimes) make you feel less shit. It's a totally different method of treatment and these constant references to your life are gradually becoming more and more irrelevant to the topic matter.

The rest of your post is almost delusional. Happiness is clearly the most important thing in life. If you really disagree with that then you're just insane; a truly unhappy life with no way to improve it (other than to just deal with it, as you seem to think is actually possible) is quite obviously worse than no life at all because at least then you wouldn't have to suffer.
 

Lil devils x_v1legacy

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Metanar said:
Lil devils x said:
BS. I am not saying screw people who are depressed, I am talking about teaching them how to handle these things rather than allow them to consume them. After I committed suicide, They attempted to medicate me, I was only 14 at the time. The medication made me more depressed and they finally took me off it after I put my head through a window. No, what helped me was learning how to handle these things not allow them to consume me. Learning why those things are not important at all.

Life isn't about being happy. If you think it is just about being happy, you are in for a load of grief, and will never survive your latter years. When you get old, everything hurts, your loved ones all die, you suffer greatly everyday. That sure as hell isn't happiness. All that is left in the end is what you have done, not how happy you were.
The best way of dealing with depression due to GID is to change sex. You can't try to change someone's gender identity, it doesn't work, people suffering depression as a result of GID are proof of this. And furthermore studies about people whose sex was changed soon after birth show that they grew up with GID, further proving the importance of gender identity above sex and that gender is a permanent thing you feel regardless of your sex.

Here's another thing, you were probably given antidepressants, I'm guessing since you were vague. (Possibly on purpose, if you had thought over your post for a couple of seconds you'd see where I'm about to go with this) Anyway, hormones =/= antidepressants, hormones make trans people happy because they finally feel that they are being given the chance to be the person that they want to be, and not be stuck as someone that they are not. Antidepressants don't do that, they're just designed alleviate mood problems, they don't give you a chance to lead a new life like hormones do, they just (sometimes) make you feel less shit. It's a totally different method of treatment and these constant references to your life are gradually becoming more and more irrelevant to the topic matter.

The rest of your post is almost delusional. Happiness is clearly the most important thing in life. If you really disagree with that then you're just insane; a truly unhappy life with no way to improve it (other than to just deal with it, as you seem to think is actually possible) is quite obviously worse than no life at all because at least then you wouldn't have to suffer.
My depression was caused by events that could not be changed. They could not bring back my dead friends, they could not erase the rape, they could not erase the abuse, so no I was forced to deal with the cards I was dealt. I had to learn how to deal with the obstacles life throws at me, or I would not survive in this world. ALl people need to learn coping skills, otherwise they cannot survive in this world. For many who are "trapped in the wrong body" they cannot afford to have anything done, and even after they do, they still do not come out of their depression. Sometimes, that does not even solve it because they have deeper issues than that. That isn;t helping them learn how to manage and cope better in life, all that is doing is giving them a "sugar pill" to solve the problems they will face in life. At some point they are going to have to deal with real issues they cannot change and just have to accept, supplying another crutch does not accomplish that.

Happiness is found within yourself, not by changes that can be made. You do not need to look elsewhere or have certain condtions to be met to be happy. It isn't what happens to you, it is how you choose to handle it. No in the end, it isn't about self gratification, as no one will remember that at all, all that is left is everything you have done in this world, what changes you made, what difference you made. Other than that.. there isn't anything that remains. Does anyone recall how happy some ancient egyptian was? Of course not, but they sure as hell know what the pyramids are.

Edit: as for references to my experiences, well that is what we base all of our conclusions on, you argue your points from your experience, as I do mine. I am relating my experiences to the discussion at hand, and by dismissing that, you are also reinforcing my original statement about transexuals being self absorbed. I have not claimed your experience to be irrelevant, but you have dismissed mine repeatedly. Also, saying you would kill yourself if you could not complete your transformation, well that also reinforces my point of being overly emotional. Killing yourself accomplishes nothing except intentionally causing anquish to those who care about you. Thank you for proving my point.
 

Metanar

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Lil devils x said:
My depression was caused by events that could not be changed. They could not bring back my dead friends, they could not erase the rape, they could not erase the abuse, so no I was forced to deal with the cards I was dealt. I had to learn how to deal with the obstacles life throws at me, or I would not survive in this world. ALl people need to learn coping skills, otherwise they cannot survive in this world. For many who are "trapped in the wrong body" they cannot afford to have anything done, and even after they do, they still do not come out of their depression. Sometimes, that does not even solve it because they have deeper issues than that. That isn;t helping them learn how to manage and cope better in life, all that is doing is giving them a "sugar pill" to solve the problems they will face in life. At some point they are going to have to deal with real issues they cannot change and just have to accept, supplying another crutch does not accomplish that.

Happiness is found within yourself, not by changes that can be made. You do not need to look elsewhere or have certain condtions to be met to be happy. It isn't what happens to you, it is how you choose to handle it. No in the end, it isn't about self gratification, as no one will remember that at all, all that is left is everything you have done in this world, what changes you made, what difference you made. Other than that.. there isn't anything that remains. Does anyone recall how happy some ancient egyptian was? Of course not, but they sure as hell know what the pyramids are.
Straight off the bat you're misinterpreting me, and belittling the condition, and bringing up irrelevant life experiences. No-one's going to be happy born in the wrong body, simply put. There's no sugar pill, just positive, affirmative action. People who have a sex change are coping with their condition. They accept it as real and deal with it in the only possible way. If you believe it is possible to cope with GID without a sex change, you have no idea what you are talking about and should leave now.

And as for the second half of your post, no-one is born to make an impact on society, some people just do. Everyone is born to enjoy their life, and if you do not, you have failed. If a transgendered person doesn't have a sex change and hates their life then that is a failing on their behalf and on the behalf of the society that made it difficult for them. Life definitely isn't about getting you name written in history books, and if you think so then that in itself is self-absorbed and contradictory of everything else you have said about making a difference without reward.

Ultimately, you have no idea what you're talking about and should do some research before spewing out uninformed opinions.

Also, my experiences are directly relevant to transsexualism. Yours are... Uuuh, you were suicidal. And you're a doctor. Not the same.
 

Lil devils x_v1legacy

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Metanar said:
Lil devils x said:
My depression was caused by events that could not be changed. They could not bring back my dead friends, they could not erase the rape, they could not erase the abuse, so no I was forced to deal with the cards I was dealt. I had to learn how to deal with the obstacles life throws at me, or I would not survive in this world. ALl people need to learn coping skills, otherwise they cannot survive in this world. For many who are "trapped in the wrong body" they cannot afford to have anything done, and even after they do, they still do not come out of their depression. Sometimes, that does not even solve it because they have deeper issues than that. That isn;t helping them learn how to manage and cope better in life, all that is doing is giving them a "sugar pill" to solve the problems they will face in life. At some point they are going to have to deal with real issues they cannot change and just have to accept, supplying another crutch does not accomplish that.

Happiness is found within yourself, not by changes that can be made. You do not need to look elsewhere or have certain condtions to be met to be happy. It isn't what happens to you, it is how you choose to handle it. No in the end, it isn't about self gratification, as no one will remember that at all, all that is left is everything you have done in this world, what changes you made, what difference you made. Other than that.. there isn't anything that remains. Does anyone recall how happy some ancient egyptian was? Of course not, but they sure as hell know what the pyramids are.
Straight off the bat you're misinterpreting me, and belittling the condition, and bringing up irrelevant life experiences. No-one's going to be happy born in the wrong body, simply put. There's no sugar pill, just positive, affirmative action. People who have a sex change are coping with their condition. They accept it as real and deal with it in the only possible way. If you believe it is possible to cope with GID without a sex change, you have no idea what you are talking about and should leave now.

And as for the second half of your post, no-one is born to make an impact on society, some people just do. Everyone is born to enjoy their life, and if you do not, you have failed. If a transgendered person doesn't have a sex change and hates their life then that is a failing on their behalf and on the behalf of the society that made it difficult for them. Life definitely isn't about getting you name written in history books, and if you think so then that in itself is self-absorbed and contradictory of everything else you have said about making a difference without reward.

Ultimately, you have no idea what you're talking about and should do some research before spewing out uninformed opinions.
I edited my post above:
"Edit: as for references to my experiences, well that is what we base all of our conclusions on, you argue your points from your experience, as I do mine. I am relating my experiences to the discussion at hand, and by dismissing that, you are also reinforcing my original statement about transexuals being self absorbed. I have not claimed your experience to be irrelevant, but you have dismissed mine repeatedly. Also, saying you would kill yourself if you could not complete your transformation, well that also reinforces my point of being overly emotional. Killing yourself accomplishes nothing except intentionally causing anquish to those who care about you. Thank you for proving my point."

The idea people have to have certain conditons met to be happy is the issue here. My experiences are very much relevant to that point. Saying " no one is going to be happy being born in the wrong body" is false. That is like saying " no one is going to be happy being born without legs" which is also false. It is how they choose to handle it that makes the difference. Learning the skills those who are happy regardless of circumstance is what should be taught here, not to search for happiness elsewhere.

Everyone is born to make an impact on this world. Without those individuals that have repeatedly made a difference every day past and present we would still be living in caves. You do not have to have your name written into a history book, as people do not recall who figured out how to start a fire, yet they have helped shape the world we live in today. If everyone had the mindset that they should just make themslves happy and screw the world and everyone on it besides themslves, this would be a pretty shitty place to live, and nothing would be done. What a waste of the very short time we have here.
 

Lil devils x_v1legacy

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Metanar said:
You've missed a link. A person who was born without legs recognises they were born without legs. If they were a person without legs who believed they had legs there would be a pretty big problem. No that analogy doesn't quite work, but that's your fault for making a stupid analogy.

What is your point exactly? You've been arguing that GID isn't important for quite a while (which is idiotic and that's where I'm ending this discussion - I don't know how much clearer I have to make the fact that I think you're an idiot who should shut up), and me being emotional doesn't prove that at all. It does mean you wouldn't date me since you don't like emotional people (dumb). Well woop-de-do, I don't care. I already said that. I just told you to stop generalising transsexuals. (Which, by the way, you just did in saying that you think this proves your point)

Transitioning makes me happy. If I couldn't do it for any reason I would kill myself. Maybe you think it's selfish not to want to lead a life of concealed suffering for other people. I think you're just an idiot.
Actually many children with deformaties and handicaps do not realize they are different than anyone else at first, you are incorrect.

Your insults do not strengthen your arguement. I will generalize transexuals, because I have yet to meet one that did not prove me right. Anyone who allows something to consume them will be self absorbed and overly emotional, transexuals allow their obsession over their gender to consume them and this is why they can be generalized as overly emotional and self absorbed. That is just how it is. You do not have to conceal suffering if you choose not to allow yourself to suffer. If you learn how to be happy without needing all of these things to happen first, you would not be suffering. You can choose how you allow things to affect you.

So if say.. The earth was hit with a huge solar burst and it knocked out all electricity on the planet and changed our electromagnetic field, and you could no longer finish your transformation, you would just up and kill yourself instead of try to survive and help others?Yes that is selfish, and a bit disturbing. Well I guess in that case, mankind might be better off with natural selection taking it's course. It reminds me of a child claiming they will hold their breath forever unless they get their way, and that is not very attractive in the least.
 

Slayer_2

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Metanar said:
You can't see ovaries while you're having sex with someone, as far as you're concerned the vagina created in SRS is almost exactly the same as a real one. And of course you go back to the reproduction thing as well which I love since I've already countered this issue. It's an imaginary distinction you're making here, it looks the same, you can stick your dick in it like a real vagina, there's no real difference as far as you can tell.

The whole point of this thread is asking if you would date a trans person IF you found them attractive, so bringing up plastic surgery nightmares and all of that crap that so rarely actually happens in these cases is totally irrelevant, thank you for not paying attention.

And I'll continue "being an ass", since your opinion is transphobic by definition.
No, I can't. But the simple fact is that you are NOT a true female, so sorry if that offends you.

You seem to have no problem dishing it out, so let me return the favour. Here is what I think about transgender people such as you: you are a bunch of self-righteous pricks (or pussies, as it may be). Honestly, it's tight that you want to TRY (key word) to be the opposite gender, but don't expect me to treat you like a member of that gender, since you simply aren't. That includes me sleeping with you. I will, however treat you with the respect I give every human, at least until they prove themselves not worthy of it, such as in your case.

Save me that crap about it being a medical condition and shut the hell up. Cancer is a medical condition. Schizophrenia is a medical condition. AIDS is a medical condition. These days everyone is claiming they have a medical condition, and people are killing themselves over the stupidest things. If you're a gay, then go ahead, be gay and proud, I have nothing but support for gay's and bi's. Don't expect me to cry you a river because you lack the balls to just be gay. Sorry, but there are billions of people going through far worse, sorry if I lack sympathy because you wish to try and switch gender instead of simply dating among your own. I watched my grandfather waste away as pancreatic cancer destroyed his ability to eat, think, and function. You want to compare that to you getting suicidal over your gender? No, that is just bullshit. Instead of wasting your life, be thankful for all the great stuff we have been given, there are places in the world where people fight just to get water or food.

Even if a transwoman looked and acted EXACTLY like a normal female, I still wouldn't date them simply because every one I've ever met is so arrogant and whiny "oh, my life is so hard, stuck in a body of the wrong gender". To sum it up, they are all assholes. Maybe, MAYBE, if there was one that wasn't a total cock, looked somewhat like a real female, then I'd consider it. But honestly, I have a better chance of having sex with Megan Fox than of finding that, so why bother considering it?

TL;DR: Get off your high horse just because you're swapping your dick in for a vag.
 

orangeban

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Slayer_2 said:
Metanar said:
You can't see ovaries while you're having sex with someone, as far as you're concerned the vagina created in SRS is almost exactly the same as a real one. And of course you go back to the reproduction thing as well which I love since I've already countered this issue. It's an imaginary distinction you're making here, it looks the same, you can stick your dick in it like a real vagina, there's no real difference as far as you can tell.

The whole point of this thread is asking if you would date a trans person IF you found them attractive, so bringing up plastic surgery nightmares and all of that crap that so rarely actually happens in these cases is totally irrelevant, thank you for not paying attention.

And I'll continue "being an ass", since your opinion is transphobic by definition.
No, I can't. But the simple fact is that you are NOT a true female, so sorry if that offends you.

You seem to have no problem dishing it out, so let me return the favour. Here is what I think about transgender people such as you: you are a bunch of self-righteous pricks (or pussies, as it may be). Honestly, it's tight that you want to TRY (key word) to be the opposite gender, but don't expect me to treat you like a member of that gender, since you simply aren't. That includes me sleeping with you. I will, however treat you with the respect I give every human, at least until they prove themselves not worthy of it, such as in your case.

Save me that crap about it being a medical condition and shut the hell up. Cancer is a medical condition. Schizophrenia is a medical condition. AIDS is a medical condition. These days everyone is claiming they have a medical condition, and people are killing themselves over the stupidest things. If you're a gay, then go ahead, be gay and proud, I have nothing but support for gay's and bi's. Don't expect me to cry you a river because you lack the balls to just be gay. Sorry, but there are billions of people going through far worse, sorry if I lack sympathy because you wish to try and switch gender instead of simply dating among your own. I watched my grandfather waste away as pancreatic cancer destroyed his ability to eat, think, and function. You want to compare that to you getting suicidal over your gender? No, that is just bullshit. Instead of wasting your life, be thankful for all the great stuff we have been given, there are places in the world where people fight just to get water or food.

Even if a transwoman looked and acted EXACTLY like a normal female, I still wouldn't date them simply because every one I've ever met is so arrogant and whiny "oh, my life is so hard, stuck in a body of the wrong gender". To sum it up, they are all assholes. Maybe, MAYBE, if there was one that wasn't a total cock, looked somewhat like a real female, then I'd consider it. But honestly, I have a better chance of having sex with Megan Fox than of finding that, so why bother considering it?

TL;DR: Get off your high horse just because you're swapping your dick in for a vag.
You know what, I'm stepping in here and taking responsibility for my own thread.

Firstly, a transwoman is just as much a woman as a ciswoman. Same goes for trans/cismen. I presume that you believe that gender is more than skin-deep (otherwise you'd think that purely by changing their appearance, a man could become a woman, which you clearly don't believe). So obviously there is something more important than appearance when it comes to gender. Well guess what, a transperson has that "something more important" because they are a woman, they just happen to have been unfortunate and have been born into the wrong body.

Secondly, I have no idea what you're talking about with the medical conditions thing. You start off by listing genuine medical conditions, then using that as proof that everyone is claiming to have a medical condition. I don't understand, you're saying GDS isn't a medical condition because... err, there are other medical conditions?

Then you talk about gay and bi people, which has nothing to do with this debate, sexuality has nothing to do with gender. A transperson can be any sexuality. You seem to think that people transition purely because they want to sleep with the same gender, but are uncomfortable being gay. No, that isn't how it works. The reason people want to transition is because they *are* that other gender, they just don't have the right physical appearance. Nothing to do with sexuality.

You mention your grandfather, and his cancer is a real tragedy, but then you say that because he has a more serious medical condition, GDS is stupid? I don't believe anyone directly compared dying slowly and painfully to getting suicidally depressive over their gender, so I don't know where you pulled that idea from.

Finally for that paragraph, we get the old chestnut of "people have it suckier than you, so stop complaining!" Have you heard of Maslow's Hierarchy? It's a psychological concept, which basically ranks humanities needs in order, basically it says that you won't (for example) want supportive friends if you have no air, because you have more pressing concerns. Now, it's a real tragedy that some people can't get food or water, but here's the thing, we can, and that doesn't make our needs suddenly invalid, because we've moved up Maslow's Hierarchy. Maslow's hierarchy doesn't rank needs by importance, just by how demanding they are.

Then you generalise all transpeople, and trivialise all their issues. You have absolutely no idea what it means to wake up each day and know that your body is wrong, that your mind doesn't sync up with your appearance. Transgender people have an enormous suicide rate, which demonstrates exactly how difficult a condition it is to live with.

And finally for your Tl;DR, I hardly see it as being on a high horse to want to be recognized as an equal human being to cispeople.
 

Lil devils x_v1legacy

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orangeban said:
Slayer_2 said:
Metanar said:
You can't see ovaries while you're having sex with someone, as far as you're concerned the vagina created in SRS is almost exactly the same as a real one. And of course you go back to the reproduction thing as well which I love since I've already countered this issue. It's an imaginary distinction you're making here, it looks the same, you can stick your dick in it like a real vagina, there's no real difference as far as you can tell.

The whole point of this thread is asking if you would date a trans person IF you found them attractive, so bringing up plastic surgery nightmares and all of that crap that so rarely actually happens in these cases is totally irrelevant, thank you for not paying attention.

And I'll continue "being an ass", since your opinion is transphobic by definition.
No, I can't. But the simple fact is that you are NOT a true female, so sorry if that offends you.

You seem to have no problem dishing it out, so let me return the favour. Here is what I think about transgender people such as you: you are a bunch of self-righteous pricks (or pussies, as it may be). Honestly, it's tight that you want to TRY (key word) to be the opposite gender, but don't expect me to treat you like a member of that gender, since you simply aren't. That includes me sleeping with you. I will, however treat you with the respect I give every human, at least until they prove themselves not worthy of it, such as in your case.

Save me that crap about it being a medical condition and shut the hell up. Cancer is a medical condition. Schizophrenia is a medical condition. AIDS is a medical condition. These days everyone is claiming they have a medical condition, and people are killing themselves over the stupidest things. If you're a gay, then go ahead, be gay and proud, I have nothing but support for gay's and bi's. Don't expect me to cry you a river because you lack the balls to just be gay. Sorry, but there are billions of people going through far worse, sorry if I lack sympathy because you wish to try and switch gender instead of simply dating among your own. I watched my grandfather waste away as pancreatic cancer destroyed his ability to eat, think, and function. You want to compare that to you getting suicidal over your gender? No, that is just bullshit. Instead of wasting your life, be thankful for all the great stuff we have been given, there are places in the world where people fight just to get water or food.

Even if a transwoman looked and acted EXACTLY like a normal female, I still wouldn't date them simply because every one I've ever met is so arrogant and whiny "oh, my life is so hard, stuck in a body of the wrong gender". To sum it up, they are all assholes. Maybe, MAYBE, if there was one that wasn't a total cock, looked somewhat like a real female, then I'd consider it. But honestly, I have a better chance of having sex with Megan Fox than of finding that, so why bother considering it?

TL;DR: Get off your high horse just because you're swapping your dick in for a vag.
You know what, I'm stepping in here and taking responsibility for my own thread.

Firstly, a transwoman is just as much a woman as a ciswoman. Same goes for trans/cismen. I presume that you believe that gender is more than skin-deep (otherwise you'd think that purely by changing their appearance, a man could become a woman, which you clearly don't believe). So obviously there is something more important than appearance when it comes to gender. Well guess what, a transperson has that "something more important" because they are a woman, they just happen to have been unfortunate and have been born into the wrong body.

Secondly, I have no idea what you're talking about with the medical conditions thing. You start off by listing genuine medical conditions, then using that as proof that everyone is claiming to have a medical condition. I don't understand, you're saying GDS isn't a medical condition because... err, there are other medical conditions?

Then you talk about gay and bi people, which has nothing to do with this debate, sexuality has nothing to do with gender. A transperson can be any sexuality. You seem to think that people transition purely because they want to sleep with the same gender, but are uncomfortable being gay. No, that isn't how it works. The reason people want to transition is because they *are* that other gender, they just don't have the right physical appearance. Nothing to do with sexuality.

You mention your grandfather, and his cancer is a real tragedy, but then you say that because he has a more serious medical condition, GDS is stupid? I don't believe anyone directly compared dying slowly and painfully to getting suicidally depressive over their gender, so I don't know where you pulled that idea from.

Finally for that paragraph, we get the old chestnut of "people have it suckier than you, so stop complaining!" Have you heard of Maslow's Hierarchy? It's a psychological concept, which basically ranks humanities needs in order, basically it says that you won't (for example) want supportive friends if you have no air, because you have more pressing concerns. Now, it's a real tragedy that some people can't get food or water, but here's the thing, we can, and that doesn't make our needs suddenly invalid, because we've moved up Maslow's Hierarchy. Maslow's hierarchy doesn't rank needs by importance, just by how demanding they are.

Then you generalise all transpeople, and trivialise all their issues. You have absolutely no idea what it means to wake up each day and know that your body is wrong, that your mind doesn't sync up with your appearance. Transgender people have an enormous suicide rate, which demonstrates exactly how difficult a condition it is to live with.

And finally for your Tl;DR, I hardly see it as being on a high horse to want to be recognized as an equal human being to cispeople.
I for one, know perfectly well what it is like to wake up every day and not have your body match your mind. Not because I think I should be a different gender, but because of my messed up immune system that does not allow me to do what I would like to do. I can't eat what I would like to eat, I can't sleep when I would like to sleep due to pain, no instead I clench my teeth and pass out eventually because the pain meds only make me useless and still in pain. My nerves go haywire causing great pain all over my body, I have Pneumonia every damn winter and wonder each time if I will make it through. My lymph glands swell up weekly and are terribly painful. But no, in my mind, I can do anything I set my mind to. It is difficult having your body prevent you from functioning the way you would like it to, but you deal with the cards you are dealt and make it through, you don't just give up cop out and kill yourself because " it is too much to handle". No- that would be lame.

Their suicide rate does not mean the circumstance is more difficult, it means they lack the ability to cope and the desire to survive. They need to learn to accept what they have been given rather than allow dispair to consume them. Changing their gender will not solve that, no that is just a minor issue in comparison to the real underlying coping issue.

There is more to being a man or a woman than what sexual organs you have, male and female brains are actually physically different and work in a different way to process information. And no, they are not just as much of a woman, nor will they ever be able to fully experience what it is to be a woman. They can try to be, but no, it is not yet possible for them to fully "be a woman". Maybe in time science will advance to that, but that has not happened yet.
 

Psykoma

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Lil devils x said:
I for one, know perfectly well what it is like to wake up every day and not have your body match your mind. Not because I think I should be a different gender, but because of my messed up immune system that does not allow me to do what I would like to do. I can't eat what I would like to eat, I can't sleep when I would like to sleep due to pain, no instead I clench my teeth and pass out eventually because the pain meds only make me useless and still in pain. My nerves go haywire causing great pain all over my body, I have Pneumonia every damn winter and wonder each time if I will make it through. My lymph glands swell up weekly and are terribly painful. But no, in my mind, I can do anything I set my mind to. It is difficult having your body prevent you from functioning the way you would like it to, but you deal with the cards you are dealt and make it through, you don't just give up cop out and kill yourself because " it is too much to handle". No- that would be lame.
So if there was a way that you could afford to make all that go away, you wouldn't do it? Really?
Because that's the situation trans are in, they recognize that something is wrong, and they do have an avenue to go to fix it.

Lil devils x said:
Their suicide rate does not mean the circumstance is more difficult, it means they lack the ability to cope and the desire to survive. They need to learn to accept what they have been given rather than allow dispair to consume them. Changing their gender will not solve that, no that is just a minor issue in comparison to the real underlying coping issue.
I didn't let despair consume me. I transitioned.

Lil devils x said:
There is more to being a man or a woman than what sexual organs you have, male and female brains are actually physically different and work in a different way to process information. And no, they are not just as much of a woman, nor will they ever be able to fully experience what it is to be a woman. They can try to be, but no, it is not yet possible for them to fully "be a woman". Maybe in time science will advance to that, but that has not happened yet.
By your definitions, yes, I do experience life as a woman.
I guess you haven't seen the studies that show a transwoman's brain is the same as a ciswoman's and not a cismans?
 

orangeban

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Lil devils x said:
I for one, know perfectly well what it is like to wake up every day and not have your body match your mind. Not because I think I should be a different gender, but because of my messed up immune system that does not allow me to do what I would like to do. I can't eat what I would like to eat, I can't sleep when I would like to sleep due to pain, no instead I clench my teeth and pass out eventually because the pain meds only make me useless and still in pain. My nerves go haywire causing great pain all over my body, I have Pneumonia every damn winter and wonder each time if I will make it through. My lymph glands swell up weekly and are terribly painful. But no, in my mind, I can do anything I set my mind to. It is difficult having your body prevent you from functioning the way you would like it to, but you deal with the cards you are dealt and make it through, you don't just give up cop out and kill yourself because " it is too much to handle". No- that would be lame.

Their suicide rate does not mean the circumstance is more difficult, it means they lack the ability to cope and the desire to survive. They need to learn to accept what they have been given rather than allow dispair to consume them. Changing their gender will not solve that, no that is just a minor issue in comparison to the real underlying coping issue.

There is more to being a man or a woman than what sexual organs you have, male and female brains are actually physically different and work in a different way to process information. And no, they are not just as much of a woman, nor will they ever be able to fully experience what it is to be a woman. They can try to be, but no, it is not yet possible for them to fully "be a woman". Maybe in time science will advance to that, but that has not happened yet.
You won't ever commit suicide, a fair opinion and rather admirable actually. But recognize that some people do not have your stubborness (not stubborn in the bad way) and need to survive. For some people it really is, life = shit, so why bother having life?

But imagine someone could fix the issues you have with your immune system, just like that. Surely you would jump at the opportunity, and punch anyone in the jaw who told you that you should learn to live with your condition and not get it fixed. That is what SRS is like for transpeople, a way to fix their problems.

You're miny tirade against people who commit suicide isn't really anything to do with the point we are discussing, we are discussing transpeople and socities prejudices against them as well as socities ingrained homophobia (though that bit has been kind of forgotten).

You seem to be misunderstanding the nature of transpeople. The issue is that they are born into the wrong sex, it's nothing to do with coping. Or rather, they are having difficulty "coping" with the sex they have been born with (I'm not a fan of that sentence, not really accurate but close enough). By fixing that problem with their sex, they no longer have a problem to cope with do they?

Okay, you seem to have attributed "womaness" to two things, the brain and experience. Firstly, this the thing about the brain seems, well, frankly incredibly pedantic. It may not sound very scientific to say so, but I say that refusing to allow someone to be truly happy with themselves purely because of what we classify as gender (and frankly, you're just talking about biological sex, where as this is about gender which is much more than just DNA and chromosone arrangement) is, frankly, diabolical.

Edit: Oh, and I forgot to mention that, say, a transman's brain would be the same as a cisman's brain, as the poster above said, look for the studies, they all confirm it.

As for the experience thing, poppycock. If I locked a woman in a cupboard from her birth until she was twenty (purely hypothetical example, I swear) and then let her out, she is still a woman, despite not having the same experiences.
 

Lil devils x_v1legacy

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orangeban said:
Lil devils x said:
I for one, know perfectly well what it is like to wake up every day and not have your body match your mind. Not because I think I should be a different gender, but because of my messed up immune system that does not allow me to do what I would like to do. I can't eat what I would like to eat, I can't sleep when I would like to sleep due to pain, no instead I clench my teeth and pass out eventually because the pain meds only make me useless and still in pain. My nerves go haywire causing great pain all over my body, I have Pneumonia every damn winter and wonder each time if I will make it through. My lymph glands swell up weekly and are terribly painful. But no, in my mind, I can do anything I set my mind to. It is difficult having your body prevent you from functioning the way you would like it to, but you deal with the cards you are dealt and make it through, you don't just give up cop out and kill yourself because " it is too much to handle". No- that would be lame.

Their suicide rate does not mean the circumstance is more difficult, it means they lack the ability to cope and the desire to survive. They need to learn to accept what they have been given rather than allow dispair to consume them. Changing their gender will not solve that, no that is just a minor issue in comparison to the real underlying coping issue.

There is more to being a man or a woman than what sexual organs you have, male and female brains are actually physically different and work in a different way to process information. And no, they are not just as much of a woman, nor will they ever be able to fully experience what it is to be a woman. They can try to be, but no, it is not yet possible for them to fully "be a woman". Maybe in time science will advance to that, but that has not happened yet.
You won't ever commit suicide, a fair opinion and rather admirable actually. But recognize that some people do not have your stubborness (not stubborn in the bad way) and need to survive. For some people it really is, life = shit, so why bother having life?

But imagine someone could fix the issues you have with your immune system, just like that. Surely you would jump at the opportunity, and punch anyone in the jaw who told you that you should learn to live with your condition and not get it fixed. That is what SRS is like for transpeople, a way to fix their problems.

You're miny tirade against people who commit suicide isn't really anything to do with the point we are discussing, we are discussing transpeople and socities prejudices against them as well as socities ingrained homophobia (though that bit has been kind of forgotten).

You seem to be misunderstanding the nature of transpeople. The issue is that they are born into the wrong sex, it's nothing to do with coping. Or rather, they are having difficulty "coping" with the sex they have been born with (I'm not a fan of that sentence, not really accurate but close enough). By fixing that problem with their sex, they no longer have a problem to cope with do they?

Okay, you seem to have attributed "womaness" to two things, the brain and experience. Firstly, this the thing about the brain seems, well, frankly incredibly pedantic. It may not sound very scientific to say so, but I say that refusing to allow someone to be truly happy with themselves purely because of what we classify as gender (and frankly, you're just talking about biological sex, where as this is about gender which is much more than just DNA and chromosone arrangement) is, frankly, diabolical.

Edit: Oh, and I forgot to mention that, say, a transman's brain would be the same as a cisman's brain, as the poster above said, look for the studies, they all confirm it.

As for the experience thing, poppycock. If I locked a woman in a cupboard from her birth until she was twenty (purely hypothetical example, I swear) and then let her out, she is still a woman, despite not having the same experiences.
Actually, the studies have shown from the brain scans that after hormone therapy, the transwoman's brain is between male and female, but not fully female, even though the subjects " feel like they are female" the issue with their opinion of course, is they do not know what it is to "feel female" so they really could not determine that for themselves. They think they feel female, but their brain is not that of a female. The newer studies still show that the male to female transgender brain is still more male than female. Many who promote putting people through these things do not usually promote the very well known complications that come with the procedure long term. No, they cannot become fully female, though they have improved on this over the years, they have not fully accomplished that. This is also why the suicide rate among those who have transitioned is also high, because even after putting themselves through such things they still did not have the answers they were seeking.

As you pointed out, some women do not get to experience fully what it means to be a woman, They too are held back from the full experience, just as someone who was born with any handicap, for example a woman who is infertile or unable to bear children would never be able to participate in the full womanhood experience, and this often causes great issues in their lives as well. My sister for example, was in a serious car accident when she was in highscool and can never have children. She has emotional issues to this day in regards to this condition, as she very much would like to carry her own child. Being a mother for example, you do not have the same bond with an adopted child as you would with one that was actually carried in your womb. Those women who have issues that prevent them from the full womanhood experience, also do not understand the full experience as well, as they have been prevented from doing so.

As for life experience, everything from your period starting at the worst possible time, to breast tenderness are all a part of growing pains, that help a woman form who she is. One of the issues with transgenders after their transformation is they always try to think about what life would have been like if they had been their " proper sex" throughout school and how that would have changed their life. They can never redo their past and that often makes it difficult for them to cope even after the surgery. The primary issue here is coping, and that will not be solved simply because they have surgery.

The desire to be a woman, does not seem to fade even after they go through the trouble to try and become one, this is something they will always be striving for, as it is an unattainable goal, as they will always only be a Transwoman. If they cannot accept that, they will always have serious issues coping with that.
 

Lil devils x_v1legacy

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Psykoma said:
Lil devils x said:
I for one, know perfectly well what it is like to wake up every day and not have your body match your mind. Not because I think I should be a different gender, but because of my messed up immune system that does not allow me to do what I would like to do. I can't eat what I would like to eat, I can't sleep when I would like to sleep due to pain, no instead I clench my teeth and pass out eventually because the pain meds only make me useless and still in pain. My nerves go haywire causing great pain all over my body, I have Pneumonia every damn winter and wonder each time if I will make it through. My lymph glands swell up weekly and are terribly painful. But no, in my mind, I can do anything I set my mind to. It is difficult having your body prevent you from functioning the way you would like it to, but you deal with the cards you are dealt and make it through, you don't just give up cop out and kill yourself because " it is too much to handle". No- that would be lame.
So if there was a way that you could afford to make all that go away, you wouldn't do it? Really?
Because that's the situation trans are in, they recognize that something is wrong, and they do have an avenue to go to fix it.

Lil devils x said:
Their suicide rate does not mean the circumstance is more difficult, it means they lack the ability to cope and the desire to survive. They need to learn to accept what they have been given rather than allow dispair to consume them. Changing their gender will not solve that, no that is just a minor issue in comparison to the real underlying coping issue.
I didn't let despair consume me. I transitioned.

Lil devils x said:
There is more to being a man or a woman than what sexual organs you have, male and female brains are actually physically different and work in a different way to process information. And no, they are not just as much of a woman, nor will they ever be able to fully experience what it is to be a woman. They can try to be, but no, it is not yet possible for them to fully "be a woman". Maybe in time science will advance to that, but that has not happened yet.
By your definitions, yes, I do experience life as a woman.
I guess you haven't seen the studies that show a transwoman's brain is the same as a ciswoman's and not a cismans?
I most definately have seen the studies. The studies show that after the male to female transformation, that the brain still more closely resembles that of a male, and the best they have achieved is a state of "in between" male and female, though all the new studies still show that it is closer to male than female, even with the hormone treatment.A hemophrodite conversion is not the same as a male to female conversion, as they were actually already part female from birth.

I have yet to define what it means to be a woman. As that is not something accomplished with few words. Everything from your first period, cramps, breast tenderness, carrying a child inside your body, labor, motherhood, pain tolerance, what you feel when you look into a childs eyes, The worrying, yes, all of these things are still only part of what it means to be a woman, as there is still so much more.
 

Ashannon Blackthorn

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Metanar said:
This reeks to me of general belittlement of the issues faced by trans people. It's one thing for someone to be immature and say "No, I won't date you because I have some ill-conceived notion of a permanent, biological gender", and it's another for people to stand up and purposefully belittle how serious being a trans person is. The condition we suffer has left me on the brink of suicide numerous times and only now after having come out publicly am I starting to crawl out of that hole. It's serious, and no matter what your "opinion" on trans people is, you need to show respect to them as they've suffered enough in their lifetime without people antagonising them as several people in this thread have done so far.(Not you personally, although you clearly don't understand the hardship since you pulled the "people cry abuse too often" card)
Get off your high horse. Hi, gay male, almost killed myself 3 times in high school cause I was the class ******. Had a teacher tell me it was my fault for coming out because I should have known better.

I have nothing but respect for trans people I've lived with them, I'm friends with numerous ones, I've laughed, cried, argued with them. I've held one of my friends after she tried ot slit her fucking wrist cause her work fired her for being a freak after he became a she. Don't you fucking dare come into this forum and try and tell me I'm not able to understand trans people, without you knowing me or my story. But hey, easier to just dismiss me as some hater cog in the wheel of transphobia than to realize not everyone out there thinks the exact same as you do.

Not every trans person is a wreck. I've known numerous happy well adjusted (but drama, can't escape it) trans people both m2f and f2m. Most of them deplore other transexuals who insist they get some special treatment or be put of some pedestal.

So yeah it sucks you had a shitty life. If I was there and could have helped you I would have. But don't you ever fucking dare say I belittle or don't understand the trans community simply because I refuse ot think that being trans makes you some special snowflake that I have to tiptoe around for fear of hurting your feelings.

EDIT: Sorry if this seems personal, but you hit a really raw raw nerve and you can say "oh I didn't know" of course you didn't. You never even asked or probably even considered that things aren't black and white.
 

Ashannon Blackthorn

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So to put my own feelings in this matter a bit more simply. Trans people have issues. I help them through them the best I can but do not treat them any differently than anyone else. My friend Abbi (previously a guy) got mad at me one day for not getting all excited about her wearing a dress in public. My answer was simply this. "I don;t care about if you're in a dress. You are you and that's who I care for."

So she didn't really have an answer at the time and couple of days later called me to thank me for not being all gushy about the dress as it she now thinks all it meant, if I was being all gushy, was to spare her feelings. I already accept Abbi as Abbi, not as Andrew. She is who she says she is. No more no less and I wont treat her any differently now as I did before. if that makes me a bad person... well I don't think I wanna be a good person then.
 

Slayer_2

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orangeban said:
You know what, I'm stepping in here and taking responsibility for my own thread.

Firstly, a transwoman is just as much a woman as a ciswoman. Same goes for trans/cismen. I presume that you believe that gender is more than skin-deep (otherwise you'd think that purely by changing their appearance, a man could become a woman, which you clearly don't believe). So obviously there is something more important than appearance when it comes to gender. Well guess what, a transperson has that "something more important" because they are a woman, they just happen to have been unfortunate and have been born into the wrong body.
I believe that what separates men and women is hormones and sex organs. We aren't so different mentally, no matter what some people may think. With that being said, I don't believe that medical science is good enough to make a convincing swap between two genders. Take a woman in my class. She used to be a male, and it's glaringly obvious. I'm tall, at 6'3, but she towers over me (especially when she wears high-heels). Her jaw line is very square, and her overall build is large and muscular. In short, the opposite of feminine. Half the class makes fun of her, and I feel bad for her, but at the same time, she did it to herself, although it blows my mind why. I've never seen a female that even resembles her, and no one with an iota of common sense could mistake her for a true female. She is really very nice, and doesn't deserve the shit she gets, but like I said, it's somewhat self-inflicted, like if I decided to show up to class naked and acted surprised when people laughed at me.

Secondly, I have no idea what you're talking about with the medical conditions thing. You start off by listing genuine medical conditions, then using that as proof that everyone is claiming to have a medical condition. I don't understand, you're saying GDS isn't a medical condition because... err, there are other medical conditions?
No, I'm saying there are too many conditions. If someone has any quirks, they have a condition, I swear 10 more are "discovered" each day. Can't concentrate? You probably have ADD. Occasionally get confused by number/letter arrangements? Dyslexia. My little brother was "diagnosed" with the autism, and it's total bullshit. He is forced to undergo therapy, attend group sessions, and he is always talked about as "improving" or "needing work". Just because he is a little anti-social. I was too, at his age, and now I go clubbing and to parties, I have tons of friends, it's just a phase, but no, clearly if something is even slightly off with him, it's a medical condition. Fuck our blame-based society.

Then you talk about gay and bi people, which has nothing to do with this debate, sexuality has nothing to do with gender. A transperson can be any sexuality. You seem to think that people transition purely because they want to sleep with the same gender, but are uncomfortable being gay. No, that isn't how it works. The reason people want to transition is because they *are* that other gender, they just don't have the right physical appearance. Nothing to do with sexuality.
How can you be born as the wrong gender? If you have a penis, you're male. If you have a vagina, you're female. Sure there are occasional mix-ups (hermaphrodites), but I'm pretty sure genes never just say "hey, lets swap these brains out!"...

You mention your grandfather, and his cancer is a real tragedy, but then you say that because he has a more serious medical condition, GDS is stupid? I don't believe anyone directly compared dying slowly and painfully to getting suicidally depressive over their gender, so I don't know where you pulled that idea from.
No, but they grouped wanting to change gender with other serious medical issues (see my rant above). Also, excuse me, I'm writing the second half of this quite intoxicated, I just got back from the clubs, and I'm still sobering up, forgive any errors.

Finally for that paragraph, we get the old chestnut of "people have it suckier than you, so stop complaining!" Have you heard of Maslow's Hierarchy? It's a psychological concept, which basically ranks humanities needs in order, basically it says that you won't (for example) want supportive friends if you have no air, because you have more pressing concerns. Now, it's a real tragedy that some people can't get food or water, but here's the thing, we can, and that doesn't make our needs suddenly invalid, because we've moved up Maslow's Hierarchy. Maslow's hierarchy doesn't rank needs by importance, just by how demanding they are.
Maslow's Hierarchy is great and all, but if your first 3-4 tiers of needs are being met, forgive me if I spare my sympathy. It doesn't make your "needs" invalid, but it sure removes a lot of my compassion and concern for them. Do I feel sorry for the dumb bimbos who ***** about how hard their life is because their BF dumped them or something similar? No, not at all. Does that make me a bad person for not being sympathetic about their self actualization "needs"? No, it just means I have much more sympathy for people fighting to survive every day. Whenever something doesn't work out for me, I just mentally repeat "you have a great life, cherish it". More people need to try this, and gain some sympathy for people with REAL struggles.

Then you generalise all transpeople, and trivialise all their issues. You have absolutely no idea what it means to wake up each day and know that your body is wrong, that your mind doesn't sync up with your appearance. Transgender people have an enormous suicide rate, which demonstrates exactly how difficult a condition it is to live with.
Not all of them, but out of the 8 I've met and talked to, the only one who wasn't an ass to me was the previously mentioned 6'5 MtF beast. Every other one was like "Oh, my life is so hard, I'm trapped in this body! You don't understand..." Seriously, cry me a river. People are suffering much worse conditions than you.

And finally for your Tl;DR, I hardly see it as being on a high horse to want to be recognized as an equal human being to cispeople.
It's cool that you want to be known as a member of the opposite gender... Really, no beef there. But don't act better than me because of it.
 

DazBurger

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Metanar said:
DazBurger said:
Why cant you guys just accept me as the narwhale I so urge to be?

Its phobic to do otherwise!! You nazies!!!!
This type of thing is incredibly offensive from the eyes of someone suffering from a recognised medical condition.

The problem with a lot of you is that you see some kind of additional idea of sex; there's sex, your actual physical form, your gender, the sex that you identify as and then a lot of you are creating this brand new spiritual permanent variable that determines, in your minds, what sex a person actually is. If a person looks like a woman and identifies as a woman (and trust me, it's not just "acting" like some of you are crudely putting it, these people including myself are far beyond the realms of acting like the gender we identify as) then why are you so opposed to the idea of being with them? Children? You can adopt? Sex? Works just fine, trust me on that. Looks? This one is pretty obvious.

Of course a lot of people will go all scientific and say "well biologically you're X, not Y which you identify as", except that's a load of shit and anyone can see that because the only defining thing that you could possibly be referring to once a transsexual has undergone HRT and SRS is DNA, and when the fuck did people start caring about the DNA of the person they love? Oh no, you've got the wrong chromosomes, not touching you with a 50 foot pole!

But do you know what, referring back to the post I quoted, I don't give a fuck if you are too immature to accept people as the gender they identify as, but at least have the respect and courtesy to refer to them as their chosen gender. Just because you can't deal with the idea that someone identifies as a different gender to the sex they were born as doesn't mean you should go around offending people who do. Grow up.
As someone suffering from a recognised medical condition (Im asthmatic), I find your notions against Narwhales, and my person, incredibly offensive.