Transgender People and Attraction OR The Inherent Homophobia in Society

[orangeban]

Edit: Some clever soul pointed out that they wouldn't have a relationship with a transperson because they couldn't have kids. Fair enough, that makes sense to me, good reason, if kids is what you want then I can't blame you for aiming to get kids! Double Edit: Though someone does point out that you can adopt.

Edit: More cleverness from below, someone else said they wouldn't have a relationship with a transperson because of how society would judge them and their partner. I'm not so naive to suggest that you could just ignore society, so this seems a pretty valid point.

So, I've been trawling the back catalogues of these forums about transgenderism (and reading the recent topic about it) and I've come across something interesting. Many people on this site wouldn't go out with a transperson, even if that person had transitioned to their preferred gender and even if that person passed as a beautiful example of that gender. So I thought, why is this?

[Please note that in this I'm going to refer to the viewer as male and the transperson as a transwoman. This is only because every example I've seen of this has involved a straight male balking at the idea of a transwoman. I'm sure examples from other genders and sexualities exist, but since I've not found them I've ignored them for my convienience here.]

Eventually I concluded that the inherent fault here is society (though I always end up blaming society), specifically, as you may have guessed from the title, the inherent homophobia in society. Because here's the thing, what is it exactly about a transwoman that puts off certain men (assuming the transwomen looks like an attractive woman). Surely the only reasons are either that the man doesn't consider the transwoman a "real woman" (a very transphobic and unfair viewpoint) or because of the fact there is a remote connection to maleness.

Now, that first reason I can blame on transphobia, but I can also blame the homophobia that I blame reason two for as well. Here's my reasoning:

We haven't evolved being turned off by the fact there is a connection to maleness. That'd be ridiculous, our bodies aren't really that complex, we like certain things, and if that thing ticks the boxes then whoopdy-do! Our bodies don't care about a remote connection to male-os-itude, they just like breasts! (or vaginas or high-voices or whatever reason the body is attracted to women).

So the reason must come down to societal conditioning. And here's the thing, we've been taught by society that having sex with a dude is the ickiest thing from here to Mars. For a straight guy to do another guy! That's like totally gross! (I say straight guy, because if it's a gay guy everyone coughs, looks awkard and go "not that there's anything wrong with that") This idea is so deeply-ingrained in some people, that something being at all connected to men, is also totally gross!

So why's this homophobic? Pretty obvious really, if man-on-man is considered to be "Eww, gross" then anyone who actually enjoys that is implied to also be "Eww, gross". So that's not fun.

It's funny really, some people are utterly petrified of anything that might be considered "gay". If they went any further along that line of thinking they'd be scrubbing themselves with bleach everytime another man touched them.

So now for the discussion, if you're one of those people who wouldn't sleep with a transperson, what's your reasoning? Does it fit with my reasoning? Do you think my reasoning is even partially right? And if you're a gay person who wouldn't sleep with a transperson of the same gender, speak up! Because that'd sort of blow my theory outta the water.

 

[JoJo]

I would sleep with a transwoman if they appeared sufficiently similar to a ciswoman, but longer term relationships are a bit more... iffy. There is the nagging issue that transwoman can't actually reproduce and for me having children would be an important goal in a long-term relationship.

 

[orangeban]

Uh, I think the Escapist ate my post, so I'll make (roughly) the same post again, forgive me if it's a repeat.

Eventually I concluded that the inherent fault here is society (though I always end up blaming society), specifically, as you may have guessed from the title, the inherent homophobia in society. Because here's the thing, what is it exactly about a transwoman that puts off certain men (assuming the transwomen looks like an attractive woman). Surely the only reasons are either that the man doesn't consider the transwoman a "real woman" (a very transphobic and unfair viewpoint) or because of the fact there is a remote connection to maleness.

Well there is the part about them not actually being a "real woman" and the fact that its true.

Okay, I won't attack you about the "real woman" thing, instead I'll take a different line and approach your comment from a different angle.

Why does the fact they aren't a "real woman" put you off? Surely if they're attractive to you, that's good! After all, it isn't the concept of female you're attracted to, it's the female form that matters to your body. So if a transwoman has an attractive female form, what's the issue?

At it's heart, your put off by the idea that a transwoman is, in your mind, a man. And that exposes the homophobia in society, because it isn't that you don't find men attractive and don't sleep with them because of that (otherwise you'd be happy to sleep with this transwoman), instead, because of society, the idea of sleeping with men is "EWWW! Gross!" and the idea of anything even close to that is repulsive to you.

 

[orangeban]

I would sleep with a transwoman if they appeared sufficiently similar to a ciswoman, but longer term relationships are a bit more... iffy. There is the nagging issue that transwoman can't actually reproduce and for me having children would be an important goal in a long-term relationship.

Huh, that makes sense as a reason actually. I'll edit that in, thanks!

 

[Phasmal]

So now for the discussion, if you're one of those people who wouldn't sleep with a transperson, what's your reasoning?

Um, as far as I'm aware, transmen dont generally have a functional downstairs, so I dont think I would. But thats just my general first impression. I remember seeing a picture of a cosplayer once and being like `Oh, he's hot`, and they were a transman, so I guess I would be open to it. Of course, I dont really do one-night stands, so I would have to have a good connection with them.

 

[Cousin_IT]

They may look like a woman. Act like a woman. Sound like a woman. They may even be a woman. But their vagina is made from their former penis & scrotum. I don't want to stick my stick in that, anymore than I would want to stick my stick in a fleshlight made from real flesh.

 

[everythingbeeps]

It just depends on what you identify as "man". Is it the person, or the genitalia? And different people will have different answers for that.

Personally, I couldn't care less about the ability to have children. Would have zero impact for me.

 

[orangeban]

So now for the discussion, if you're one of those people who wouldn't sleep with a transperson, what's your reasoning?

Um, as far as I'm aware, transmen dont generally have a functional downstairs, so I dont think I would.

Hmm, not actually sure about that. Any transmen out there willing to confirm or deny this? I'm pretty sure transwomen (remember, this means men who become women) can have sex.

And I suppose you don't really need a functional downstairs, there are other methods available.

 

[Phasmal]

So now for the discussion, if you're one of those people who wouldn't sleep with a transperson, what's your reasoning?

Um, as far as I'm aware, transmen dont generally have a functional downstairs, so I dont think I would.

Hmm, not actually sure about that. Any transmen out there willing to confirm or deny this? I'm pretty sure transwomen (remember, this means men who become women) can have sex.

And I suppose you don't really need a functional downstairs, there are other methods available.

You're right, its not needed. It would be preferred of course ;D

I only have a limited knowledge of these sorts of things, so I could be wrong.
And transmen is the right term for me cause I'm a girl, incase you thought I meant transwomen.

 

[orangeban]

So now for the discussion, if you're one of those people who wouldn't sleep with a transperson, what's your reasoning?

Um, as far as I'm aware, transmen dont generally have a functional downstairs, so I dont think I would.

Hmm, not actually sure about that. Any transmen out there willing to confirm or deny this? I'm pretty sure transwomen (remember, this means men who become women) can have sex.

And I suppose you don't really need a functional downstairs, there are other methods available.

You're right, its not needed. It would be preferred of course ;D

I only have a limited knowledge of these sorts of things, so I could be wrong.
And transmen is the right term for me cause I'm a girl, incase you thought I meant transwomen.

Oh, I only defined transwomen in case you didn't understand, I hope you didn't feel patronized, sorry 'bout that.

 

[Neuromaster]

Adoption is a thing. Just sayin'.

 

[steevee]

As long as they are attractive to me, and I mean physically and in terms of other traits, then I'd have no problem sleeping with a Transwoman. A relationship? While I'd have my issues because of wider society and it's views, which though I know people will say shouldn't affect me, they quite clearly would and I don't know whether I'd want to be under that strain.

 

[Phasmal]

Oh, I only defined transwomen in case you didn't understand, I hope you didn't feel patronized, sorry 'bout that.

No problem, on the internet, you are assumed white straight male unless stated otherwise.
;D
Just the way things are.

 

[orangeban]

Okay, I won't attack you about the "real woman" thing, instead I'll take a different line and approach your comment from a different angle.

Why does the fact they aren't a "real woman" put you off? Surely if they're attractive to you, that's good! After all, it isn't the concept of female you're attracted to, it's the female form that matters to your body. So if a transwoman has an attractive female form, what's the issue?

At it's heart, your put off by the idea that a transwoman is, in your mind, a man. And that exposes the homophobia in society, because it isn't that you don't find men attractive and don't sleep with them because of that (otherwise you'd be happy to sleep with this transwoman), instead, because of society, the idea of sleeping with men is "EWWW! Gross!" and the idea of anything even close to that is repulsive to you.

The way I see it your whole post is asking people why physical attraction is not the sole requirement for a relationship. There is more to a relationship then just looks you know. Just like what makes a man a man and a woman a woman is more then skin deep. You have to consider what you actually want out of a relationship when you are talking about transgender people. They will never be able to properly have kids and if that is something you want it can be pretty detrimental.


By the way for the record I am not a guy.

Oh, sorry if I assumed that you were a girl, didn't mean to. I was sorta extending my policy from the original post, sorry again.

Hmmm, maybe I'm not very good at understanding why some people find men attractive but not women, and vice-versa (I'm a pansexual so I do find it confusing), but I was always of the impression that those kind of differences were only skin deep. I didn't really consider that someone could have a "woman" personality or a "man" personality. I'm not being sarcastic here, I really hadn't considered that.

But even then, there is no reason a transperson cannot have those personalities. In fact, shouldn't transpeople basically be their preferred gender beneath their skin, that it is only the skin deep things that are wrong (how they look (and therefore how society treats them)). If we use the old "woman/man trapped in a man/woman's body" (which I hate to do because it isn't that accurate) then that sorta demonstrates that, the skin deep thing is what's wrong.

And I did concede the kids having thing, you've got me there.

 

[orangeban]

As long as they are attractive to me, and I mean physically and in terms of other traits, then I'd have no problem sleeping with a Transwoman. A relationship? While I'd have my issues because of wider society and it's views, which though I know people will say shouldn't affect me, they quite clearly would and I don't know whether I'd want to be under that strain.

Hmm, another good point, this is turning out to be pretty interesting, I'm genuinally being educated!

 

[generals3]

I'm sorry but the thought that the person is/was (tbh being a man/women is more than just physical appearance) does turn me off. Why? because the thought of having a relation with someone of the same gender disgusts me, yes i think it's disgusting (but than again, i have nothing against people who think it's nice, it's a matter of taste). A dude with a pussy is still a dude. I'm not the kind of guy who sees the other as a sexual object so i look beyond those aspects. Now sure it may be possible that the person also acts like a woman but even so he still remains a dude, period.

 

[orangeban]

I'm sorry but the thought that the person is/was (tbh being a man/women is more than just physical appearance) does turn me off. Why? because the thought of having a relation with someone of the same gender disgusts me, yes i think it's disgusting (but than again, i have nothing against people who think it's nice, it's a matter of taste). A dude with a pussy is still a dude. I'm not the kind of guy who sees the other as a sexual object so i look beyond those aspects. Now sure it may be possible that the person also acts like a woman but even so he still remains a dude, period.

Exactly my point, people aren't only disgusted by the fact the person looks like a dude, but also by the inherent idea of dude-ness. And what I'm saying is, we didn't evolve this disgust at the idea of sleeping with someone who you think is a dude (FYI, transwomen aren't dudes*), but who doesn't look like one, instead we were taught this idea by society.

*I suppose I should elaborate on this. You actually say it yourself, being a man/woman is about more than just physical appearance. A transperson is someone who is born a gender, but has the physical appearance of a different gender. So a transwoman is a woman, just a woman unfortunate enough to be born with the physical appearance of a man.