Transgender Q & A

[RhombusHatesYou]

There's a ton of different words and people can't seem to agree with one-another on the definitions. How the fuck are people supposed to understand with this clusterfuck of an etymological system?

Settle the etymological differences the traditional way: Steel cage match.

 

[RhombusHatesYou]

I'm of two minds on the issue.

That's because at the heart of the it there's one very important philosophical issue - what is more important, the body or the mind? ... and before you attempt to answer that you have to answer the question 'what is the mind?' and then you might as well have a crack at 'what is Self?'

And all that's before you get to the ethical shitfight.

 

[tarantula]

I'm of two minds on the issue.

That's because at the heart of the it there's one very important philosophical issue - what is more important, the body or the mind? ... and before you attempt to answer that you have to answer the question 'what is the mind?' and then you might as well have a crack at 'what is Self?'

And all that's before you get to the ethical shitfight.

There's probably a rule, but you two deserve lots of upvotes, for great answers, for good data, for reaching to the crux of issues, and sometimes just for conversations that make me laugh out loud.

After wandering through "Which is more important, Body or Mind?" and "What is Self?", we arrive at "Where does Self Live?", and then the Buddha walks up the road, hits us with the stick, and the koan loops through again.

Questions and theories of self-consciousness and identity just don't overlap much with the ethical-experiment space. I'm really very fond of the theories of Julian Jaynes on consciousness, whose seminal book has one of the finest titles ever: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Origin_of_Consciousness_in_the_Breakdown_of_the_Bicameral_Mind

Evidential references here: http://www.julianjaynes.org/summary-of-evidence-for-julian-jaynes-theory.php

 

[RhombusHatesYou]

There's probably a rule, but you two deserve lots of upvotes

Upvotes give me performance anxiety.

 

[an annoyed writer]

There's probably a rule, but you two deserve lots of upvotes, for great answers, for good data, for reaching to the crux of issues, and sometimes just for conversations that make me laugh out loud.

Glad you appreciate it. I keep in mind that I'm writing for others, so if I'm not at least intriguing you I'm not doing my job right. Besides, this is a community worth staying with, since there's a lot of good people. Hope you stick around.

 

[DataSnake]

It was actually three guys, two with knives, and one with a blunt object, but who's counting?

Appreciate the sentiment

I actually meant her fiance threatening you with a firearm. She called you crazy when you told her about the gang rape too? Instead of, you know, trying to comfort you like a normal person with a conscience would have?

Spoiler: This seems appropriate

 

[Maevine]

Wow, 12 pages now ._.;; I'm a little late...

This isn't exactly about transgender people, but I was wondering how you believed the rate of transsexuality would be affected if our culture were more gender-fluid and stopped enforcing the gender-binary. Do you think more or less people would become transsexual, or would the rate be substantially affected at all?

Secondly (and actually about transgender people this time), I've come across quite a few transgender and transsexual individuals who felt uncomfortable identifying with feminism because they didn't feel like they were being included by the community. So, how can one be a good trans* ally, and what can we cisgender people do to make our spaces more friendly and inclusive to transgender and transsexual people?

I'll totally understand if you don't have an answer for or just don't want to answer either one of these questions. Just in case, though, I thought I should ask .w. This thread is seriously an awesome idea~ I'm sorry about the trolls, though D:

 

[squeekenator]

I do have a question, and I apologize in advance if I offend you or anybody else, but:

If there were a medical procedure or a form of psychological therapy which made your mind feel in tune with your body without major surgery or long term hormone treatment, would you go through with it?

Ugh. Fuck no. I mean, logically speaking it'd be a good idea. Being male and happy with it would be just as good as being female and happy with it, and it'd be a lot more convenient - I wouldn't have to go through the whole transition thing, or deal with all the shitty social consequences. But sometimes logic just isn't enough, I absolutely hate the idea of being male and would refuse to do it anyway. Besides, from a philosophical point of view, I'd much rather change the body to suit the mind than change the mind to suit the body. If you take a magic pill that completely rewrites your mind, you aren't really you any more.

 

[RhombusHatesYou]

you will find a chunk of the hardcore feminists absolutely hate people who are transgender so yeah you get alot of us avoiding the feminist comunity. when i say absolutely hate people like me i love being told "you rape females bodies by having that surgery".

That's some fucked up moon logic right there.

Not that I'm surprised, hardcore feminists have always seemed to me to be to be a bunch of bitter, hateful cunts.

 

[tarantula]

Wow, 12 pages now ._.;; I'm a little late...

This isn't exactly about transgender people, but I was wondering how you believed the rate of transsexuality would be affected if our culture were more gender-fluid and stopped enforcing the gender-binary. Do you think more or less people would become transsexual, or would the rate be substantially affected at all?

Secondly (and actually about transgender people this time), I've come across quite a few transgender and transsexual individuals who felt uncomfortable identifying with feminism because they didn't feel like they were being included by the community. So, how can one be a good trans* ally, and what can we cisgender people do to make our spaces more friendly and inclusive to transgender and transsexual people?

I'll totally understand if you don't have an answer for or just don't want to answer either one of these questions. Just in case, though, I thought I should ask .w. This thread is seriously an awesome idea~ I'm sorry about the trolls, though D:

Regarding the first question: 
While i can often be heard babbling about how all the axis of sex are not binary, they are on continuums, it is more accurate to say that they mostly have bimodal distributions. Imagine a bell curve with two peaks and a valley. (insert snarky remark about the sexual imaginings of gamer culture

So, the axes (axises?): 

P: Physical sex: Strongly bimodal, genetics usually works out and we are quite binary as a species, most are definitely concave or definitely convex.

G: Gender identity: As above, driven by genetics, but the two peaks are closer and shallower, and the failure rate is higher. That is, there seem to be more transgendered people than physically intersexed people.

B: Gender behavior: In modern western culture this is almost flat, non-modal, it has to be mapped as multivariant (think n-dimension scatter plots.) OTOH, in fundamentalist cultures, this is enforced to match physical sex.

D: Sexual desire: If the variant is "opposite sex" you get classic gaussian distribution. If the variants are "attracted to male" and "attracted to female" you get a lumpy bimodal. (I might be headed into the weeds, statisticians, help me out here

A: Gender as cultural artifact: some cultures, e.g. american natives, are trimodal, there's a little bump of third/inter sex in the middle. Most are quite bimodal.

All this leads up to the fact that the society you propose would only affect the shapes of B and A, (and possibly D, more bisexuals might come out of their internal closets.) I don't think it would have the slightest effect on P and G, so no change in the number of gender dysphoric 

(I think I missed something important but this is too long already)

The Womyn born womyn argument still persists in old-school separatist feminism, but should fade within a generation or so. More at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michigan_Womyn's_Music_Festival#Women-born-women_policy 

 

[tarantula]

you will find a chunk of the hardcore feminists absolutely hate people who are transgender so yeah you get alot of us avoiding the feminist comunity. when i say absolutely hate people like me i love being told "you rape females bodies by having that surgery".

That's some fucked up moon logic right there.

Not that I'm surprised, hardcore feminists have always seemed to me to be to be a bunch of bitter, hateful cunts.

To be fairer you might want to restate that as a bunch of bitter, mortally wounded, survivors of rape, abuse, and sexism.

I think most of hardcore separatist feminism is just wrong, but they didn't just lick all that hate off the grass.* Lots of us have had nothing but misery from the hands of men, and it has made us very suspicious.

*Though every community has its share of the simply insane too.

 

[RhombusHatesYou]

you will find a chunk of the hardcore feminists absolutely hate people who are transgender so yeah you get alot of us avoiding the feminist comunity. when i say absolutely hate people like me i love being told "you rape females bodies by having that surgery".

That's some fucked up moon logic right there.

Not that I'm surprised, hardcore feminists have always seemed to me to be to be a bunch of bitter, hateful cunts.

To be fairer you might want to restate that as a bunch of bitter, mortally wounded, survivors of rape, abuse, and sexism.

To be honest, I have zero interest in being fair to hardcore seperatist feminists.

I think most of hardcore separatist feminism is just wrong, but they didn't just lick all that hate off the grass.* Lots of us have had nothing but misery from the hands of men, and it has made us very suspicious.

I admit/accept that they've got every reason to feel they way they do but what I don't accept, and never will, is that they have any justification to act the way they do.

Of course, I'm white, hetero and male, so what do I know? Good thing I'm not middle class or I'd never have any free time from oppressing people I've never met.

 

[RhombusHatesYou]

I can tell you this - no man or woman who calls these physical alterations "rape" has ever actually been raped. I've been raped before, more than once, and its insulting as a rape victim to be told that my experience is equal to somebody getting a fucking boob job. They diminish the value of the term to nothingness.

That reminds me of a few heated discussions I've had with hardcore feminists... they said 'rape', 'oppression' and 'patriarchy' so many times (and in so many varieties of context) the words temporarily lost all meaning.

I've been told by quite a few of these "feminazis", as some people would call them, that I'm a supporter of rapists. I've not only been a victim, but I've put my body on the line to physically intervene in rape.

I had a hardcore feminists 'explain' to me that all heterosexual sex was rape because women were rendered incapable of making informed consent due to socio-cultural imprinting and pressure. Of course ten minutes later I broke one of her fingers for trying to shove her hand into my girlfriend's pants, who definitely wasn't consenting... unless there's a culture out there where tugging on your boyfriend's arm and yelling "Get this crazy **** off me!" is a sign of consent.

If you see one of these people, punch them in the face for me, please.

I'd rather not. It's a quirk I have but I really don't like hitting people unless they've given me a reason to physically remonstrate them.

 

[Jayemsal]

Wow, 12 pages now ._.;; I'm a little late...

This isn't exactly about transgender people, but I was wondering how you believed the rate of transsexuality would be affected if our culture were more gender-fluid and stopped enforcing the gender-binary. Do you think more or less people would become transsexual, or would the rate be substantially affected at all?

Secondly (and actually about transgender people this time), I've come across quite a few transgender and transsexual individuals who felt uncomfortable identifying with feminism because they didn't feel like they were being included by the community. So, how can one be a good trans* ally, and what can we cisgender people do to make our spaces more friendly and inclusive to transgender and transsexual people?

I'll totally understand if you don't have an answer for or just don't want to answer either one of these questions. Just in case, though, I thought I should ask .w. This thread is seriously an awesome idea~ I'm sorry about the trolls, though D:

Your first question.

Things wouldnt change much, its not about being accepted as a masculine woman or feminine man, its about being accepted for your true gender.

Your second question, I'm actually in the process of writing an annotated bibliography on a number of peer reviewed articles on that subject, I'll send you a copy of it.

 

[RhombusHatesYou]

I had a hardcore feminists 'explain' to me that all heterosexual sex was rape because women were rendered incapable of making informed consent due to socio-cultural imprinting and pressure. Of course ten minutes later I broke one of her fingers for trying to shove her hand into my girlfriend's pants, who definitely wasn't consenting... unless there's a culture out there where tugging on your boyfriend's arm and yelling "Get this crazy **** off me!" is a sign of consent.

Only one finger? For shame

What happened was it took me several attempts to get to stop trying to shove a hand down my girlfriend's pants and each try I got less concerned about trying not to injure her in the process... final attempt I just didn't give a shit at all, grabbed one of her fingers and wrenched it sideways until I felt something snap. It stopped her. After that my priority was calming my girlfriend down because it freaked her the fuck out... funny how someone trying to sexually assault you can have that effect on people.

I'd rather not. It's a quirk I have but I really don't like hitting people unless they've given me a reason to physically remonstrate them.

Verbal face-punch then? I'd say you could just call them a ****, but then they'd accuse you of raping them.

Honestly, I'd rather just have nothing to do with them at all... like I said to the neo-nazi who thought I was about to clean his clock, "You're already You and that's punishment enough for anyone."