Transgender Q & A

[BiscuitTrouser]

Ok i have a few question. I like this thread. This is really nice. Dispelling ignorance is the path to acceptance and i think this kind of thing would make everyone happier. It takes two though, people who find this kinda stuff disturbing need to be willing to ask and listen without preconceived notions. People who feel attacked need to be the bigger person and take the risk of putting themselves out there to answer. Its hard but when it happens it make me smile to see that it works.

1. How deep does the trans mentality go in terms of what in your life feels wrong. Is it everything? Just your body? Just your actions? Is everyone utterly unique in what they feel is wrong or right? For example happy with the male body but desperate for the ability to be socially acceptable in being feminine or very unhappy with male body but very happy to typically "Male behaviour" in society. Is it various depths for all people? Do some people feel the "itch" that something is wrong only mildly and their problems can be solved by a society more accepting of them exploring the part of them that feels the need to act feminine or behave differently?

2. Psyches are very complicated things, has it ever occurred to you that what you want, who you are now might change in future? I am not the person i was 2 or even 1 year ago. Not by a long shot. Its why i dont want to get a tattoo. Is it scary thinking about changing something permanently when in future you may feel a calling to be back the way you were? I dont mean to write it of as "Just a phase" because for MANY it isnt. Your identity, honestly, now might be female in all particulars and thats A ok. The basic gist: is it heard of or even recorded that a persons identity shifts BACK to their original gender after they become trans? It must be very hard for those people. Identity can be fluid and i wonder how the trans community feels about those who are unsure.

Ahhh the joy of grown men doing juvenile pranks .... I actually miss that.

You NEED to make a thread telling army stories because these are fucking hilarious. Your attitude and posts have legitimately made you the face of the British army in my mind and its fucking legendary. TELL US MOAR

 

[Angelowl]

1. How deep does the trans mentality go in terms of what in your life feels wrong. Is it everything? Just your body? Just your actions? Is everyone utterly unique in what they feel is wrong or right? For example happy with the male body but desperate for the ability to be socially acceptable in being feminine or very unhappy with male body but very happy to typically "Male behaviour" in society. Is it various depths for all people? Do some people feel the "itch" that something is wrong only mildly and their problems can be solved by a society more accepting of them exploring the part of them that feels the need to act feminine or behave differently?

2. Psyches are very complicated things, has it ever occurred to you that what you want, who you are now might change in future? I am not the person i was 2 or even 1 year ago. Not by a long shot. Its why i dont want to get a tattoo. Is it scary thinking about changing something permanently when in future you may feel a calling to be back the way you were? I dont mean to write it of as "Just a phase" because for MANY it isnt. Your identity, honestly, now might be female in all particulars and thats A ok. The basic gist: is it heard of or even recorded that a persons identity shifts BACK to their original gender after they become trans? It must be very hard for those people. Identity can be fluid and i wonder how the trans community feels about those who are unsure.

I'll try to answer, but let me warn you that I tend to ramble a bit.

1. I'm of the opinion that nothing is completely black or white. Three of my friends are also MtF transsexuals, and there is slight difference between us. For example, when it comes to sex. One have no problems having pre-op penetrative sex with her Fiancé (as in TS on girl), another doesn't even masturbate because she is too squicked out by her genitals. The third is kinda like me, can masturbate if one ignore "it" and focus on something else. Really disgusted by the thought of sticking it into someones hole.
But yeah, the existence of non-op transsexuals is evidence enough that it's a thing in degrees. And technically some crossdressers qualify for gender dysphoria. There is currently an experiment in Stockholm where they give hormones to other transgenders who have been diagnosed with "other gender disorder" (roughly translated), a group that was previously refused all kinds of trans-related healthcare. All "proper transsexuals" (myself included) I've discussed it with are positive, the trans-care is horrible in some parts of the country. My doctors literally tried to convince me that I had EVERY possible psychosis, and refused me treatment and diagnosis because I had critizised them as unprofessional and unresponsive to my problems (depression, paranoia, suicidal thoughts etc).

2. Well, good thing that we almost never have anyone transition (more than clothes/gender role) that easily. It took me seven years before I told anyone at all, then it took me three years to get a diagnosis despite everyone considering it obvious that I suffered from gender dysphoria (with one exception...). International recommendation is half a year meeting specialists, diagnosis, one year of hormones, then surgery. In sweden it takes a year to get to the specialists whom often are horribly outdated, then your fate is entirely in the doctors hands. You are not allowed to criticise them, have any other mental problems (which they will NOT help you with), and some of them demand that you act like a stereotype that hasn't existed in at least half a century.
Look, I'm trying to say that there are blocks against hasty decisions. In a majority of the cases these are unnecssary as we as a rule have struggled with the issues for years. And the general imcompentence of many health-care personel serves as a great delay anyways.

The thing people tend to miss is that we have thought a great deal about this, and the reason we actually get the treatments is that we end up killing ourselves otherwise. One have to be pretty desperate to do all the stuff we go through, and the treatment has a high tendency to work even if we could use therapy for the other issues we get from our enviroment etc.

On a sidenote I really should add that in many cases the hormones are way more important than the operations. The hormones fixes a lot of the mental issues (testosterone fucked me up badly), gives us boobs/beards (depending of direction), body shape and so on. I'm mostly indifferent to my current genitals, compared to when I hated it. I intend to get the op, a vagina fits the way my brain thinks about sex better, is much more discreet, and let's me have "proper sex" even with a fox tail butt plug. :3

 

[irishmanwithagun]

I've heard that transgender people (at least some of them, pardon my limited experience) 'feel' that they were born the wrong way or the wrong gender or somehow are off and thus are transgender as a way to correct that. I don't understand that since I don't know what it 'feels' like to be a gender or to be the wrong gender. I understand social structures built around gender and I understand being attracted to a different sex then a straight person, but feminism seeks to end limiting and unfair gender structures, and homosexuals and bisexuals exist, so obviously those things aren't the same since they are addressed with different outcomes. I can assume that this 'feeling' of a gender is something I have yet to consider and thus have overlooked and I'd like your insight into what exactly is at the core of what defines one's gender and how one feels their gender. I think I'll be missing a critical component that I need to understand sexuality in general until I can figure it out.

You're not describing Feminism, Feminism is about the rights of women in society. The idea of rejecting societal notions of gender roles is more of a Humanist idea.

My question is do you htink gender is an on/off thing and that you were born on the wrong side of it or do you view gender as a looser thing?

 

[Angelowl]

My question is do you think gender is an on/off thing and that you were born on the wrong side of it or do you view gender as a looser thing?

Well, on my end I it was less "I need to be female" and more "I need to be myself (which happens to be female)". And that I decided that I'll do whatever I want regardless of other people's opinions, leading to me having some traditionally masculine interests (Karate, Fencing, video games, heavy metal etc ). Add to that the fact that I act and dress more androgyne now that I'm comfortable with myself, compared to earlier at least (due to the fact that I'm now considered a tomboy and not a guy). And being bisexual I'm generally more attracted to androgynous people, and is quite flexible when it comes to such things. I wouldn't make any difference between a cute girl or a cute guy (so he better not be prude about his butt ).

It's a bit like transhumanism. We got genders, sure I can agree with that. But why the hell should we limit ourselves regarding what we want to be and do. That being said I consider transsexuality as a kind of intersexual misfunction, one that is, by experience, best treated with traversing the gender barrier as well as HRT & SRS (etc).

 

[Beautiful Tragedy]

so this thread has inspired me to write a story about a transexual. So, how do I say this without coming off as a deursche. I'll just ask: Have you dated someone, and when they learned about your... condition... they broke up with you? And if so what were their reaction.

I didn't begin transition til 5 years into my marriage, but every girl i dated previously i told them of my gender dysphoria and they were all cool with it, and some let me "experiment" with my gender expression...and my wife is still with me 5 years later...our relationship is "evolving" but we still care about each other.

What kind of underwear are most comfortable? They have to fit, but i like pretty, lacy panties with designs on them.

 

[DataSnake]

If MTF, do you strain your throat trying to talk in a more "feminine" voice, or did you have some sort of operation for that, or do you just not care if people notice that you have a deeper voice than most women?

 

[Twilight_guy]

snip

You're not describing Feminism, Feminism is about the rights of women in society. The idea of rejecting societal notions of gender roles is more of a Humanist idea.

Feminism is about gender equality, not the rights of women. It just so happens that women happen to have less power in society. Its the same way that racial equality doesn't seek to improve the lives on non-white people, it seeks to end racial inequality, it just so happens that white people have more power at the moment.

Feminism often involves ending gender based prejudice and unfair structures of power in order to bring about gender equality. When "the system" works against you, it becomes necessary to try and rework the system.

 

[Beautiful Tragedy]

If MTF, do you strain your throat trying to talk in a more "feminine" voice, or did you have some sort of operation for that, or do you just not care if people notice that you have a deeper voice than most women?

most of us spend years "training" our voices to sound feminine...yes it does a lot of wear and tear on our throats/vocal chords... younger people tend to have an easier time of it...there IS a surgery to shorten/tighten the vocal chords, but it's pretty expensive and not a lot of surgeons do it yet as it's not super common.

 

[an annoyed writer]

If MTF, do you strain your throat trying to talk in a more "feminine" voice, or did you have some sort of operation for that, or do you just not care if people notice that you have a deeper voice than most women?

most of us spend years "training" our voices to sound feminine...yes it does a lot of wear and tear on our throats/vocal chords... younger people tend to have an easier time of it...there IS a surgery to shorten/tighten the vocal chords, but it's pretty expensive and not a lot of surgeons do it yet as it's not super common.

She's right about this, but I've got a little addendum: some of us start before or during puberty, and manage to keep the higher pitch to their voices because of that, negating the need for intense voice training. I really wish I got that kind of treatment, would've made everything so much easier. Treatment for this kind of stuff really is much better the earlier you get it.

 

[Beautiful Tragedy]

If MTF, do you strain your throat trying to talk in a more "feminine" voice, or did you have some sort of operation for that, or do you just not care if people notice that you have a deeper voice than most women?

most of us spend years "training" our voices to sound feminine...yes it does a lot of wear and tear on our throats/vocal chords... younger people tend to have an easier time of it...there IS a surgery to shorten/tighten the vocal chords, but it's pretty expensive and not a lot of surgeons do it yet as it's not super common.

She's right about this, but I've got a little addendum: some of us start before or during puberty, and manage to keep the higher pitch to their voices because of that, negating the need for intense voice training. I really wish I got that kind of treatment, would've made everything so much easier. Treatment for this kind of stuff really is much better the earlier you get it.

yep yep... that's why these days you hear more and more about younger people going on puberty "stoppers" if you wait til after puberty it wreaks havoc on the body in so many ways.

 

[DataSnake]

Sure.
I would show you how I sound now, but I don't really want to post stuff from me here.
So instead:
In this video she even shows how her voice sounded before, which is really funny (I sometimes like doing this myself and scare the shit out of my friends).
This gal has a lot of explanations and training video on her channel, which helped me a lot with my own voice training.

Is it weird that I now wish I could do this so that I could do a Black Like Me-style exposé on sexism in XBL?

 

[Angelowl]

If MTF, do you strain your throat trying to talk in a more "feminine" voice, or did you have some sort of operation for that, or do you just not care if people notice that you have a deeper voice than most women?

We get voice training lessons, there is an operation but it's risky and doesn't necessary give better results. They decided to pause my training as I didn't practice enough. Six times per day, five minutes each time. , didn't get anywhere after half a year. Keep in mind that I had already gone from horribly deep voice to fit into the "gender netral spectrum" (barely, but still), this all on my own. I occasionally meet ordinary girls with deeper voice than myself, and honestly I was never after a "feminine voice". I was looking for a voice that wasn't obviously masculine, as long as it doesn't fuck up peoples reaction to me then I am satisfied. And honestly, as a metal-head tomboy a gender-neutral voice fits me better (especially if I intend to score with other bisexuals ^^).

I know of TS-girls who try to hard, sure it's feminine but... when your natural-born girlfriend got a darker voice than you, then you are good enough. In my case it's honestly a bit about not giving a crap too, I hate it when my voice gets ruined but otherwise? I'm pretty androgynous anyway and my voice is usually good enough.

 

[Beautiful Tragedy]

I know of TS-girls who try to hard, sure it's feminine but... when your natural-born girlfriend got a darker voice than you, then you are good enough. In my case it's honestly a bit about not giving a crap too, I hate it when my voice gets ruined but otherwise? I'm pretty androgynous anyway and my voice is usually good enough.

Ya I don't think my voice is all that feminine, mainly because i haven't tried to hard. I usually fear the phone. but people i talk to on the phone never misgender me, so it's all good to me.

 

[Psykoma]

Yes, there is a surgery, it works by the doctor going in and tightening the vocal chords. But I would avoid it completely:
A. From what I've heard, there's a real risk that while tightening the vocal chords, they break them. Hello mute for the rest of your life.
B. Almost all the "after" voices sound like chipmunks, minnie mouse, or ended up going back to what they had before (or worse - think patty and selma). It doesn't give you a smooth voice, it sounds scratchy and off.
C. The surgery only addresses the pitch, and the pitch doesn't matter nearly as much as people think. What matters -a lot- is the flow of your sentences (imo).
You can have a voice that's in what's generally considered the 'male' range for pitch, but if you speak with the proper flow, then bam - passably female voice.


I bought some self-practice videos for my voice, I tried them once but then never got around to them again, I was just too lazy.
Somehow I guess my voice just subconsciously shifted to be like my female friends and mom, because I sound a lot like them, and haven't been misgendered by my voice (telephone calls) in well over a year.

 

[Angelowl]

I know of TS-girls who try to hard, sure it's feminine but... when your natural-born girlfriend got a darker voice than you, then you are good enough. In my case it's honestly a bit about not giving a crap too, I hate it when my voice gets ruined but otherwise? I'm pretty androgynous anyway and my voice is usually good enough.

Ya I don't think my voice is all that feminine, mainly because i haven't tried to hard. I usually fear the phone. but people i talk to on the phone never misgender me, so it's all good to me.

I've gotten used to talking over the phone since I had to fix a new specialist psychiatrist on my own since the mental health care fucked it up. I realised something back then, as long as I feel like things are happening on my terms and I'm not nervous things go well. When someone calls me it's either family, friends or health-care as a rule, so I know what's going on. The same thing works IRL, as long as I'm confident and immune to insults I have no problems being around people. Yay for beating social phobias! This becomes especially hilarious when there's attraction going on, the vast majority of people hitting on me aren't my type and those I find interesting I have to confront myself. It's kind of cute in a weird way when guys get thrown out of the loop because of me, the straight ones are far shyer and more prudish than they want to admit.

And yes, earlier people mistook me for my father. Now, when I'm at my parents' house they mistake me for my mother. ^^

 

[Beautiful Tragedy]

I know of TS-girls who try to hard, sure it's feminine but... when your natural-born girlfriend got a darker voice than you, then you are good enough. In my case it's honestly a bit about not giving a crap too, I hate it when my voice gets ruined but otherwise? I'm pretty androgynous anyway and my voice is usually good enough.

Ya I don't think my voice is all that feminine, mainly because i haven't tried to hard. I usually fear the phone. but people i talk to on the phone never misgender me, so it's all good to me.

I've gotten used to talking over the phone since I had to fix a new specialist psychiatrist on my own since the mental health care fucked it up. I realised something back then, as long as I feel like things are happening on my terms and I'm not nervous things go well. When someone calls me it's either family, friends or health-care as a rule, so I know what's going on. The same thing works IRL, as long as I'm confident and immune to insults I have no problems being around people. Yay for beating social phobias! This becomes especially hilarious when there's attraction going on, the vast majority of people hitting on me aren't my type and those I find interesting I have to confront myself. It's kind of cute in a weird way when guys get thrown out of the loop because of me, the straight ones are far shyer and more prudish than they want to admit.

And yes, earlier people mistook me for my father. Now, when I'm at my parents' house they mistake me for my mother. ^^

I get mistaken for my wife on occasion.... but she has a deeper voice than me LMAO

 

[Relish in Chaos]

@MarsAtlas: Forgive me for probing ? you don?t have to answer if you don?t want to ? but do you want to date, or don?t because you?re afraid of how people will react to your transgender status?

Because, I don?t know whether or not this can help any transgender people that want to date, I watched a programme a while ago called My Transsexual Summer. In a nutshell, it was a group of transgender people in different stages of the transitioning process going away for a summer in some retreat, and then taking those experiences back home. Anyway, in one of the episodes, they went to this bar that was basically for men that wanted to hook up with trans women. So, if you have the money, free time and want something like that?yeah, go for it.

You can have a voice that's in what's generally considered the 'male' range for pitch, but if you speak with the proper flow, then bam - passably female voice.

For example, Danni Daniels. (Yeah, I know, she's a tomboyish-looking trans porn star, but that doesn't mean she can't count). Even though her voice is somewhat deep, she still speaks with a feminine register.

But I can?t imagine how hard it would be to train your vocal chords to sound feminine. Of course, actors (Sean Bean can do a surprisingly good female voice, when he played a transvestite in a programme I watched a while ago) do it and stuff, but that?s their job. As a cis male, whenever I try to put a girl?s voice for whatever reason, I just sound stupidly high-pitched, or my voice breaks halfway through.

 

[irishmanwithagun]

snip

You're not describing Feminism, Feminism is about the rights of women in society. The idea of rejecting societal notions of gender roles is more of a Humanist idea.

Feminism is about gender equality, not the rights of women. It just so happens that women happen to have less power in society. Its the same way that racial equality doesn't seek to improve the lives on non-white people, it seeks to end racial inequality, it just so happens that white people have more power at the moment.

Feminism often involves ending gender based prejudice and unfair structures of power in order to bring about gender equality. When "the system" works against you, it becomes necessary to try and rework the system.

I disagree. If Feminism is about ending gender based prejudice then how come Masculism exists to support the rights of men. Because Feminism only helps women, which draws up cultural gender barriers and creates an Us Vs Them attitude between Feminists and Everyone Else. What we should be doing is not focusing on the rights of me and women but the rights of HUMAN BEINGS.

 

[VoEC]

Is it weird that I now wish I could do this so that I could do a Black Like Me-style exposé on sexism in XBL?

That would be cool, actually.

As for the voice training:
Like Psykoma said, I wouldn't recommend and trans person to undergo vocal surgery because the results vary a lot and the risk of loosing your voice completely is extremly high!

But I'm interested in what other transpeople think about voice training. Some of you seemed to have tried it.
From people I know I often hear that it is either too difficult for them or they go to some kind of voice coach (which I don't think is always the right decision).
For me it was actually very easy to achieve a voice I'm happy with. I spoke for almost a 1/2 - 1 year with a pretty much male voice. It got a bit softer ofter time and I thought that I sounded kind of okay, but when I asked a freind for his opinion he told me that he noticed no difference to my old male voice.
That got me really fucking depressed. But then I just started to really train my voice by looking up techniques online (especially candifla helped me a lot). The process is really stupid and somewhat difficult at first (especially since you have to talk with a strange mickey mouse voice at first ) but it only took me only 1 and a half week to get to my female voice and it was really a big difference. And it cost me nothing!
The problem I had then was that I had no more power in my voice and could only speak quietly. But that was just a matter of getting used to my new voice and traning it. After half a year of speaking like this I have no more problems at all. I also picked up a few tricks from hearing my friends speak (e.g. accentuation and stuff like that).

I actually like to have a more darker voice as well, though. I think it fits me better.

This becomes especially hilarious when there's attraction going on, the vast majority of people hitting on me aren't my type and those I find interesting I have to confront myself. It's kind of cute in a weird way when guys get thrown out of the loop because of me, the straight ones are far shyer and more prudish than they want to admit.

I wish I could have your problems... *sigh* forever alone.
I guess it's mainly because I never go out since I live in the most boring city of all of Germany.

And yes, earlier people mistook me for my father. Now, when I'm at my parents' house they mistake me for my mother. ^^

This happened to me too a few times, too. ^-^


PS: I'm really glad how this thread didn't turn out like most of the TG thread on the Escapist. I really enjoy writing here.

 

[an annoyed writer]

snip

You're not describing Feminism, Feminism is about the rights of women in society. The idea of rejecting societal notions of gender roles is more of a Humanist idea.

Feminism is about gender equality, not the rights of women. It just so happens that women happen to have less power in society. Its the same way that racial equality doesn't seek to improve the lives on non-white people, it seeks to end racial inequality, it just so happens that white people have more power at the moment.

Feminism often involves ending gender based prejudice and unfair structures of power in order to bring about gender equality. When "the system" works against you, it becomes necessary to try and rework the system.

I disagree. If Feminism is about ending gender based prejudice then how come Masculism exists to support the rights of men. Because Feminism only helps women, which draws up cultural gender barriers and creates an Us Vs Them attitude between Feminists and Everyone Else. What we should be doing is not focusing on the rights of me and women but the rights of HUMAN BEINGS.

It's arguments like this that daze me: I'm obviously for women's rights, but I could never call myself a feminist. It's way too loaded of a term to really equate my feelings with. I prefer a more humanist philosophy myself.