Transgender question

[Addendum_Forthcoming]

All that tells me is transgendered people are too afraid to answer questions from people who are legitimately interested.

Given there are plenty of trans writers out there writing about this stuff, then you can't be too 'legitimately interested'.

I'll never understand why someone feels you're not supposed to ask a certain type of question because if someone is trying better inform themselves of something they don't understand, that mentality should not be met with judgement nor should they be chastised for asking questions. It isn't every day you see someone who used to be a man or woman but are now the opposite sex.

It isn't ... it's also not everyday that the average person interrogates others about their bodies because they feel it's necessary information to the minutiae of everyday civil behaviour.

 

[Vault101]

Well, for all outward appearances, how is it different? I mean, I'm actually asking. I'm not talking about that condition that you can have your chromosomes backwards, but what is the actual difference between one person believing they are a woman trapped in a man's body, and another person believing they are a wolf trapped in a man's body?

how is being gay any different from people who want to have sex with dogs?

 

[FirstNameLastName]

Well, for all outward appearances, how is it different? I mean, I'm actually asking. I'm not talking about that condition that you can have your chromosomes backwards, but what is the actual difference between one person believing they are a woman trapped in a man's body, and another person believing they are a wolf trapped in a man's body?

how is being gay any different from people who want to have sex with dogs?

Consent ...

 

[Sleepy Sol]

Well, for all outward appearances, how is it different? I mean, I'm actually asking. I'm not talking about that condition that you can have your chromosomes backwards, but what is the actual difference between one person believing they are a woman trapped in a man's body, and another person believing they are a wolf trapped in a man's body?

how is being gay any different from people who want to have sex with dogs?

What the actual fuck?
Possibly nothing (I don't know any ... fidofiles?), possibly a lot.
Either way, fuck you.

I, uh. I think you missed the point. Or maybe you actually got it.

Maybe not the best comparison to use, but it's just showing how ridiculous she thinks the question is.

Now, to immediately frame such a question as ridiculous and out of line? Ehhhhh. I can understand it, but I legitimately think since most people have little knowledge of these issues that most of the time they aren't saying such things out of the absolute malice in their hearts for transpeople.

 

[Signa]

Well, for all outward appearances, how is it different? I mean, I'm actually asking. I'm not talking about that condition that you can have your chromosomes backwards, but what is the actual difference between one person believing they are a woman trapped in a man's body, and another person believing they are a wolf trapped in a man's body?

how is being gay any different from people who want to have sex with dogs?

I'm not talking about what they are sexually attracted to. I'm asking about their sense of self identification. Yes, that identification can change what they are attracted to, but that's not part of the question, or really this discussion.

 

[FirstNameLastName]

Well, for all outward appearances, how is it different? I mean, I'm actually asking. I'm not talking about that condition that you can have your chromosomes backwards, but what is the actual difference between one person believing they are a woman trapped in a man's body, and another person believing they are a wolf trapped in a man's body?

how is being gay any different from people who want to have sex with dogs?

I'm not talking about what they are sexually attracted to. I'm asking about their sense of self identification. Yes, that identification can change what they are attracted to, but that's not part of the question, or really this discussion.

I think the point of the post was to equate the question

"... what is the actual difference between one person believing they are a woman trapped in a man's body, and another person believing they are a wolf trapped in a man's body?"

and

"how is being gay any different from people who want to have sex with dogs?"

Presumably the idea is that being gay isn't the same as being a zoophile, therefore ... being transgender isn't the same as otherkin ... yeah, the logic doesn't really follow.

 

[JustAnotherAardvark]

I, uh. I think you missed the point.

Mmmm... probably. Not very flattering for me, but .. truth hurts.

Or maybe you actually got it.

I ... wouldn't necessarily go that far.
I'm in that Jack Sparrow state "Why is the rum gone?" at the moment, and I apologize for interrupting your discourse ... in my defense, it's a rather good rum ?

 

[Signa]

Well, for all outward appearances, how is it different? I mean, I'm actually asking. I'm not talking about that condition that you can have your chromosomes backwards, but what is the actual difference between one person believing they are a woman trapped in a man's body, and another person believing they are a wolf trapped in a man's body?

how is being gay any different from people who want to have sex with dogs?

I'm not talking about what they are sexually attracted to. I'm asking about their sense of self identification. Yes, that identification can change what they are attracted to, but that's not part of the question, or really this discussion.

I think the point of the post was to equate the question

"... what is the actual difference between one person believing they are a woman trapped in a man's body, and another person believing they are a wolf trapped in a man's body?"

and

"how is being gay any different from people who want to have sex with dogs?"

Presumably the idea is that being gay isn't the same as being a zoophile, therefore ... being transgender isn't the same as otherkin ... yeah, the logic doesn't really follow.

Oh, I got that much, but it doesn't answer the question. I'm trying to figure out why Vault thinks so strongly that one is acceptable and the other is not when sexuality is not part of either.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Well, for all outward appearances, how is it different? I mean, I'm actually asking. I'm not talking about that condition that you can have your chromosomes backwards, but what is the actual difference between one person believing they are a woman trapped in a man's body, and another person believing they are a wolf trapped in a man's body?

Well, what's the difference between a man and a wolf (gender unspecified)? That's some fairly straightforwards answers to that. There is a very clear distinction between men and wolves with no grey area whatsoever.

But what's the difference between a man and a woman? Well, a man has a penis, except if he doesn't, and their DNA is different, except if it isn't and most people don't get this tested but still know what their gender is. Also, society views men and women differently, only lots of different societies have viewed the differences very differently and...

 

[inmunitas]

I'm more curious as to why a transgender person would have cosmetic surgery. I can understand wearing clothes or taking on behavior associtated with the opposite gender they were born as since that's mostly a social aspect but why would someone want to go through mutilating their own bodies that some do? Keep in mind, I think most cosmetic surgery is deplorable outside of extreme injury or deformity so I'm just as likely to not understand why some 50 year old celebrity would turn half of the body into plastic.

Just to be clear, transitioning gender has nothing to do with surgery, the transitioning part is switching the gender you "officially" identify as. Some people choose surgery in hope that it will help them cope with the condition, it's really just a form of treatment.

 

[Signa]

Well, for all outward appearances, how is it different? I mean, I'm actually asking. I'm not talking about that condition that you can have your chromosomes backwards, but what is the actual difference between one person believing they are a woman trapped in a man's body, and another person believing they are a wolf trapped in a man's body?

Well, what's the difference between a man and a wolf (gender unspecified)? That's some fairly straightforwards answers to that. There is a very clear distinction between men and wolves with no grey area whatsoever.

But what's the difference between a man and a woman? Well, a man has a penis, except if he doesn't, and their DNA is different, except if it isn't and most people don't get this tested but still know what their gender is. Also, society views men and women differently, only lots of different societies have viewed the differences very differently and...

Let me rephrase this then, when someone tells you that they feel with absolute conviction that they are not as they appear before you, why are there lines that can be crossed on what is acceptable/believable for their assertion? Is feeling like a wolf or the opposite gender equal to the person(s) feeling them, or are they unequal feelings? I want to know what makes those feelings unequal.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Let me rephrase this then, when someone tells you that they feel with absolute conviction that they are not as they appear before you, why are there lines that can be crossed on what is acceptable/believable for their assertion?

I'm not ever going to make a mistake over whether someone is a wolf or a human. People misgender cis people all the time.

 

[inmunitas]

Well, for all outward appearances, how is it different? I mean, I'm actually asking. I'm not talking about that condition that you can have your chromosomes backwards, but what is the actual difference between one person believing they are a woman trapped in a man's body, and another person believing they are a wolf trapped in a man's body?

Well, what's the difference between a man and a wolf (gender unspecified)? That's some fairly straightforwards answers to that. There is a very clear distinction between men and wolves with no grey area whatsoever.

But what's the difference between a man and a woman? Well, a man has a penis, except if he doesn't, and their DNA is different, except if it isn't and most people don't get this tested but still know what their gender is. Also, society views men and women differently, only lots of different societies have viewed the differences very differently and...

Let me rephrase this then, when someone tells you that they feel with absolute conviction that they are not as they appear before you, why are there lines that can be crossed on what is acceptable/believable for their assertion? Is feeling like a wolf or the opposite gender equal to the person(s) feeling them, or are they unequal feelings? I want to know what makes those feelings unequal.

We would be able to test for it on a genetic level, if we knew what to look for, but as we don't it's difficult to make the distinction between genetic mutation and what's purely psychological.

 

[Signa]

Let me rephrase this then, when someone tells you that they feel with absolute conviction that they are not as they appear before you, why are there lines that can be crossed on what is acceptable/believable for their assertion?

I'm not ever going to make a mistake over whether someone is a wolf or a human.

No, why would you? But if you saw someone claiming to be a wolf, are they a wolf? If you see a man claiming to be a woman, is he a woman? Neither have the physical appearance of what they say they are.

Once again, why is that concept unequal?

 

[Vault101]

I'm not talking about what they are sexually attracted to. I'm asking about their sense of self identification. Yes, that identification can change what they are attracted to, but that's not part of the question, or really this discussion.

no its not about sexual attraction

its the point that more often then not I see people point to otherkin as a way to invalidate trans people, much like people might point to something like incest and ask what the difference is between gay people

 

[Signa]

I'm not talking about what they are sexually attracted to. I'm asking about their sense of self identification. Yes, that identification can change what they are attracted to, but that's not part of the question, or really this discussion.

no its not about sexual attraction

its the point that more often then not I see people point to otherkin as a way to invalidate trans people, much like people might point to something like incest and ask what the difference is between gay people

Well, that still doesn't explain why otherkin are unequal to transgenders. Either there is a good reason why being transgendered is better than being otherkin, or both are equal and that validates both or invalidates both. Which is it?

 

[Thaluikhain]

No, why would you? But if you saw someone claiming to be a wolf, are they a wolf?

Again, I can easily and obviously tell if a person is human or a wolf, because those terms are fairly clearly defined in ways that are visible at a glance. This is not the same with male and female, because these terms are ill-defined with no clear line between them.

If you see a man

How do I know they are a man? They happen to look stereotypical male, have short hair and wear masculine looking clothes?

 

[Signa]

Let me rephrase this then, when someone tells you that they feel with absolute conviction that they are not as they appear before you, why are there lines that can be crossed on what is acceptable/believable for their assertion?

I'm not ever going to make a mistake over whether someone is a wolf or a human.

No, why would you? But if you saw someone claiming to be a wolf, are they a wolf? If you see a man claiming to be a woman, is he a woman? Neither have the physical appearance of what they say they are.

Once again, why is that concept unequal?

At that point it's just a matter of being able to make the distinction between the physical (sex) and the identity (gender). Sex is what you are physically, gender is how you identify based on how you feel you fit into cultural norms of gender, they are two completely different things.

What gender is itself is a long answer i probably can't do justice explaining.

Can you explain why transgendered people and otherkin are unequal? Everyone is dodging this question.

 

[The Lunatic]

how is being gay any different from people who want to have sex with dogs?

Seriously?


On the topic at hand.

We simply don't know.

Thus, we can't draw any differences or similarities to other conditions.

It's expected to be a disorder in the brain.

The whole "Different sex brain" thing is completely non-sense, it basically just means it shows up on a brain scan. Much in the same way depression or other mental ailments display. The idea "it's a woman's/man's brain in there!" is also completely untrue, the brain still overwhelming resembles the sex of the person in question.

I regards to "Why it'd make you want to change your gender", I can only really draw the following comparison, and I'm not even sure if it's accurate, so, do correct me if I'm wrong here.

Imagine your biggest insecurity. The thing you feel worst about yourself. Now imagine it's always there. Everyone can see it, nobody can ever not see the. You see it in the mirror, it's all you see. You hate it. It's completely irrational that you do, but, you do.

The feeling doesn't go away. It grows, and despite as accepting as people are, and as much they try to help, they cannot.