Tried Dota 2, what do you think of it?

[Snowblindblitz]

My first thread on the escapist, and thought I'd talk about DOTA 2 some. I played the first, and play LoL quite a bit. Figured I'd sign up for the beta, and see how it's shaping up. I must say, I'm not terribly impressed.

Even with the mindset of it's almost exactly DOTA 1, somethings still feel off. The controls are sluggish in my opinion, and last hitting isn't as natural as LoL feels. Plus, some of the spell animations need some pop to them. Sniper's Shrapnel comes to mind as being hard to notice on screen, for one.

How does anyone else who has played it feel? Or has LoL spoiled me?

 

[DasDestroyer]

I'll be the first to admit that I haven't touched LoL with a ten-foot pole, but the controls in Dota 2 seem to work perfectly for me. Lasthitting is, well, lasthitting, I don't know how you can mess that up, and if every single spell had a very standing out animation, then you wouldn't see what is happening in teamfights. IMO quick and powerful spells need a powerful animation, but any other spells will either drag the animation out too long, or be way too splashy for what the spell actually does. In that regard, Shrapnel isn't very powerful and it lasts a while, so the animation seems to fit it nicely.

 

[Skin]

Yeh, Dota 2 is ass-fucking-backward in so many aspects. HoN is a far, far better "Dota clone" than Dota 2.

But, Dota 2 has far, far, far better heroes than HoN so... pick your poison.

 

[Snowblindblitz]

I'll be the first to admit that I haven't touched LoL with a ten-foot pole, but the controls in Dota 2 seem to work perfectly for me. Lasthitting is, well, lasthitting, I don't know how you can mess that up, and if every single spell had a very standing out animation, then you wouldn't see what is happening in teamfights. IMO quick and powerful spells need a powerful animation, but any other spells will either drag the animation out too long, or be way too splashy for what the spell actually does. In that regard, Shrapnel isn't very powerful and it lasts a while, so the animation seems to fit it nicely.

I guess I didn't explain that well, but last hitting in LoL seems easier, depending on how you feel that's a good or bad thing. Maybe control responsiveness is what I'm going for, often I feel like I'm trying to force my character to do anything, or to make him stop feels like a car on ice. I'm getting a new computer for Christmas, so, maybe that will improve those issues for me.

Yeh, Dota 2 is ass-fucking-backward in so many aspects. HoN is a far, far better "Dota clone" than Dota 2.

But, Dota 2 has far, far, far better heroes than HoN so... pick your poison.

Still haven't tried HoN, but I will say, having access to all the heroes feels so nice in comparison to others in the genre.

 

[The Wykydtron]

Ehh, DOTA 2 looks good from a gameplay standpoint. I can watch a full shoutcast without losing interest but I prefer LoL. My laptop can't run DOTA 2 properly at all. I have to turn everything to the lowest possible settings and it is the most unplayable mess of pixels I have ever seen.

I've said this before and please don't start another arguement with me on this point since it's not really one you can pick apart or defeat. I find all the heroes in DOTA 2 damn boring. Don't get me wrong, they have cool abilities and stuff. Enigma's Black Hole, Morphling's pool, Spectre's nightmareishly evil ultimate, Wisp's "go on without me!" ultimate etc etc but still... None of them make me feel truly interested in them.

It's not like LoL where I first see someone like Leona in a game or just even her bio page and think "I really want to play her" Landing a perfect Solar Flare is epic, it's like: *swooosh* *BOOM* *swhwahh* The spell effects look like she's actually calling down The Sun to smite down her foes. Overall the effects in DOTA 2 are bright and sparkly but lack impact if you get my meaning. For example, there's one ultimate where this huge phantom ship comes out of nowhere and slams into the enemy team and it just feels... Hollow? Like it should have more impact than it does.


I doubt I would ever get so infatuated with a DOTA 2 character like I do with my badass Ezreal or beloved Sona. Seriously, i've taken time to look and analyse them all, from movelists to lore to pro strats. So it's not like I haven't tried to like the DOTA 2 heros i'm not just writing them off after a brief once-over.

I don't have much of a problem with DOTA 2 gameplay-wise. it's more complicated sure but that's neither a good or a bad thing. It's just a fact.

The only thing I really dislike is that towers seem to be of laughable use most of the time, at least compared to LoL where diving is quite a risk in most cases. Why even have towers if they do fuck all?

 

[Triforceformer]

I see what makes it good for most other people, and I'm happy it exists because it's the pioneer of the genre that Super Monday Night Combat exists in. But I absolutely despise playing it. So basically: Love the genre, hate the game that made it and any game that controls like it.

 

[Snowblindblitz]

Ehh, DOTA 2 looks good from a gameplay standpoint. I can watch a full shoutcast without losing interest but I prefer LoL. My laptop can't run DOTA 2 properly at all. I have to turn everything to the lowest possible settings and it is the most unplayable mess of pixels I have ever seen.

I've said this before and please don't start another arguement with me on this point since it's not really one you can pick apart or defeat. I find all the heroes in DOTA 2 damn boring. Don't get me wrong, they have cool abilities and stuff. Enigma's Black Hole, Morphling's pool, Spectre's nightmareishly evil ultimate, Wisp's "go on without me!" ultimate etc etc but still... None of them make me feel truly interested in them.

It's not like LoL where I first see someone like Leona in a game or just even her bio page and think "I really want to play her" Landing a perfect Solar Flare is epic, it's like: *swooosh* *BOOM* *swhwahh* The spell effects look like she's actually calling down The Sun to smite down her foes. Overall the effects in DOTA 2 are bright and sparkly but lack impact if you get my meaning. For example, there's one ultimate where this huge phantom ship comes out of nowhere and slams into the enemy team and it just feels... Hollow? Like it should have more impact than it does.


I doubt I would ever get so infatuated with a DOTA 2 character like I do with my badass Ezreal or beloved Sona. Seriously, i've taken time to look and analyse them all, from movelists to lore to pro strats. So it's not like I haven't tried to like the DOTA 2 heros i'm not just writing them off after a brief once-over.

I don't have much of a problem with DOTA 2 gameplay-wise. it's more complicated sure but that's neither a good or a bad thing. It's just a fact.

The only thing I really dislike is that towers seem to be of laughable use most of the time, at least compared to LoL where diving is quite a risk in most cases. Why even have towers if they do fuck all?

I have to agree about the towers: my first match back into DOTA 2 I was like, save me tower!!! And it didn't .

But yeah, I agree, a lot of LoL's champs definitely have that something special. I love Katarina and Vladmir/Mordekasier myself: just cool, fun champs.

I still love Lich in Dota though, even though now he seems so, I don't know, generically lich. Like, the most standard version of the lich archetype.

 

[Tanakh]

I guess I didn't explain that well, but last hitting in LoL seems easier, depending on how you feel that's a good or bad thing. Maybe control responsiveness is what I'm going for, often I feel like I'm trying to force my character to do anything, or to make him stop feels like a car on ice. I'm getting a new computer for Christmas, so, maybe that will improve those issues for me.

It is, attack animations & damage (last hitting) and turning are part of the balance of DotA. If you look at the last patch there are adjustments in miliseconds for those, to nerf some heroes and buff others. Anyway, you are right, last hitting is easier in LoL not only because the right click is more standard, but because the heroes hit for a bigger percentage of the creep's HP.

I have to agree about the towers: my first match back into DOTA 2 I was like, save me tower!!! And it didn't

Yep, towers won't aggro heroes first just because they are attaking you, making positioning and creep control more important. Towers are very important nevertheless if you know what you are doing and what you can expect from them.

Plus, some of the spell animations need some pop to them. Sniper's Shrapnel comes to mind as being hard to notice on screen, for one.

Can't say i have had that issue, but DotA2 is like the 5th DotA style game i have played. It might have to do with not being used to one kind of graphics.

the pioneer of the genre that Super Monday Night Combat exists in.

I am not sure it's the same genre... then again i wouldn't say super metroid and metroid prime are the same genre. Humm SMNC... it's been a while, was there at launch for MNC, fun little game.

 

[TheDutch3Z]

snip

About the towers:
1.They give vision.
2.At start of the game they do a lot of damage.
3.Dota have teleport scrolls,with them you can teleport to allied buildings,so if yours tower up you can tp support or save time.

About the heroes for me its backwards I find the LoL campions lacking in impact.For example Leona's Solar Flare has less impact then Invoker's Sun strike or Gyrocpter's Call down.
Did you judge the heroes in game or by videos?
And if you ever wish to try dota 2 again , soon Valve will optimize the game for lower computers .

 

[Bagged Milk]

well, I've never played any other game in this genre before, and so far, I'm liking it. I'm very, very, very bad, but it's still pretty fun. I'm getting to the point where I'm able to hold my own and experiment a tiny bit!

 

[NightHawk21]

I think the problem for you like it was for me OP is that your coming from LoL. Don't get me wrong the game was fun for the almost 2 years I played it, but it is a lot easier than DOTA 2. By that I mean the game is a lot more forgiving and more of the finer control things are removed. IMO this kinda why LoL spells feel boring as hell after you play a couple rounds of dota. I like to use pudge and Blitz as an example. In lol blitz's hook is like a inch or two on the screen (ie. really short), while in dota pudge's hook can literally go off-screen at max level. This has its downsides though, whereas in LoL Blitz hook can only grab enemy units (and honestly the minions are stupid easy to avoid), in DOTA your hook will grab the first thing it touches (with some exceptions obviously). This means positioning is more important.

IMO personally I think LoL is easier to get into, is more forgiving, and is easier to do well at, but DOTA is much more rewarding once you managed to work out the system.

As for towers, the ones in DOTA are better. LoL towers do such stupid amounts of damage that a person can literally cower under a tower with like 50 hp and feel safe since only a few heroes can successfully execute tower dives during the laning phase. Compare this to DOTA where you don't get to hold your tower's hand like a little girl and sit in lane. After all, you're there to protect your tower, your tower isn't there to protect you.

 

[ScourgeOfHell]

As an avid fan of the original DotA, I'm actually really impressed by the sequel. It's an incredibly faithful recreation, and seeing my beloved Tinker's new voice, and attack animations just stirs the fanboy inside me
I don't get why we compare LOL to DotA. DotA 2 is much much harder, and a lot more reqrding. It has a much bigger professional scene, while LOL is really more of a casual game. I don't have anything again st the latter, but LOL just isn't my cup of tea.
And the hero interactions in DotA 2, are just outstanding. Hearing Tidehunter go "Where your fleet Now", after killing Kunkka was an unforgettable moment.

 

[Tanakh]

snip

About the towers:
1.They give vision.
2.At start of the game they do a lot of damage.
3.Dota have teleport scrolls,with them you can teleport to allied buildings,so if yours tower up you can tp support or save time.

About the heroes for me its backwards I find the LoL campions lacking in impact.For example Leona's Solar Flare has less impact then Invoker's Sun strike or Gyrocpter's Call down.
Did you judge the heroes in game or by videos?
And if you ever wish to try dota 2 again , soon Valve will optimize the game for lower computers .

Actually, IMO the 2 most important things they give is:

- Map control (which includes what you said, but also means that your jungle is safer among other things)

- Gold

Before the recent patch, tower pushing was the best way to get fat fast. This was seen a lot in games by agressive teams like Na'Vi. Each tier 1 tower gives the team up to 1320 gold and the player up to 470, and tier 2 are worth a bit more; killing before the patch was a lot less, and even now it's around 300ish gold for the killer, 70 or so for the assists, that is one tower is worth 3-4 kills mid game, 4-5 kills early game (was worth even more before the patch). Denying a tower reduces the gold given to the opponent to 500, so even if you die for it (and aren't the carry) it's totally worth it. So yeah... went a little too nerd, but that's why you kill and defend towers.

 

[L0dest0ne]

I've played all three of the "big" MOBAs at some point, and I can say I like Dota 2 the best. LoL seems easier and I really didn't feel like having to unlock heroes or buy them. HoN is actually pretty good, but had poor hero design and in my opinion, the worst community of the three. Dota 2 is sort of imbalanced and had clunky controls. I can most look over the flaws of Dota 2, so that's the game I play. Its all a matter of opinion.

 

[Rastien]

Well personal experience recently i went back to play legue after clocking ere... alot of hours on dota and hon (around the 600 mark).

I had alot of fun but my god the amount of bitching i got for picking a certain hero x).

OMFG GANGPLANK
OMFG WTF BUILD IS THAT

etc.etc.

Then the sweet irony of carrying those people with an "unviable" hero and " /all lol look at gp build what a retard",
it's like dudes -_- at the level we play at it's more down to the individuals stop worrying about this shit and play :/

So yeah back to dota 2 for me but i had fun stomping around on legue again for a bit. My experience with dota 2 so far is as long as people can speak decent english it's not as bitchy as legue.

But legue is bigger at the moment by a fair bit i believe so the more players you have the greater the amount of shit heads ^^.

 

[Aircross]

The controls feel "sluggish" to you because all heroes have turning speeds.

Unlike LoL, the heroes in Dota 2 don't instantly turn 180 degrees when you want to change their directions. This allows mechanics like Pudge's hook to not be broken. Imagine you're chasing Pudge only to have him instantly hook behind him. Because of his turning animation, you can tell that he is about to turn around to hook you.

Each hero in Dota 2 also has their own attack animation with different wind up times. Heroes like Sniper, Anti-Mage, and Faceless Void have fast attack animations that make it easy while other heroes like Crystal Maiden and Drow Ranger have slower attack animations that make it harder to last hit. It's all there for balance reasons.

On Dota 2's balance...

...please don't talk about the game's balance unless you have a deep understanding of the game. The game is balanced for competitive play, not for common pub play. All heroes are situational, and they can all be countered. Even if you don't have the right hero to counter the enemy you can still buy items to counter that hero. Obviously, it's not perfectly balanced, but IceFrog does a really good job. He buffs more than he nerfs, and if he ever nerfs he just makes the hero weaker in an area that's different from what made them strong (i.e. Lycan is a crazy pusher, but IceFrog only nerfed his jungle.)

What I really love about DotA and Dota 2 is that it allows players to make choices. The hero pool is very diverse, no heroes overlap unlike some champions in LoL. The meta is open, and there are many, MANY ways to win a match. Unlike Riot, IceFrog embraces change in the meta and tries to incorporate the changes.

Viable Lane Compositions in Dota 2 ("bot"=long lane, "top"=suicide lane):
1. 2 top, 1 mid, 2 bot.
2. 1 top, 1 mid, 2 bot, 1 jungler.
3. 1 top, 1 mid, 1 bot, 1 jungler, 1 roamer.
4. 3 top, 1 mid, 1 bot.
5. 1 top, 1 mid, 3 bot.
6. 1 top, 1 mid, 1 bot, 2 jungler.
7. 1 top, 1 mid, 1 bot, 2 roamers.
8. 1 top, 2 mid, 2 bot.
9. 0 top, 1 mid, 2 bot, 2 junglers (OPA Na'Vi style!)

Viable Team Compositions:
1. Heavy pushing.
2. Heavy ganking.
3. Four protect one.
4. Two carries.
5. AoE.

 

[DugMachine]

I've already traded my WoW addiction for LoL and am neckdeep in guides and learning so I don't want to move onto Dota just yet. Plus I hear it's harder than LoL and I'm struggling with this game as it is so noty

 

[Wayneguard]

DotA 2 is...... so much harder than I remember Dota 1 being. Maybe I'm just bad after so many years of not playing Dota1 but I really, really suck at Dota2. Need more practice.

 

[The Clitosaurus]

Y'know, I -really- wanted to like Dota 2. Really. I love some of the hero mechanics, and a lot of its features add a layer of depth that I find LoL lacks.

But the controls, oh god the horrid, sluggish controls. When heroes have the turning circle of a double-decker bus, you know something isn't right. I acknowledge the argument for balance mentioned earlier in the thread, but I also reject it thoroughly. I don't quite understand why the game has to control exactly like its Warcraft 3 predecessor, rather than streamlining it and making it intuitive. Little bits and pieces like being able to hold down right click and have your hero follow your cursor, or having your pathing shown on the minimap, so you can see the route you'll take. It's strange how much you take little things like that for granted.

There's also the mass stunlocking, which is endlessly frustrating. I suppose a Dota fan might argue that i've just been softened up by LoL's relative lack of hard CC.