Trolling, anonymity, the internet community, and you! (somewhat rant-y)

[MelasZepheos_v1legacy]

snip.

snip.

snip.

snip.

What you consider pointless is irrelevant. That is why you are wrong, you are in no position to judge what is responseable use of a right. I consider what you are saying wrong, for that reason it is pointless that you are saying it, that means you are not using your right responseable judging by your own notion here and have to shut the fuck up, right? Because that's how it works according to your post, all I have to do is disagree with what or how you are saying something and that nullifys your right to say it, according to you atleast.

snip.

Well, seeing as saying that would require you having shoot someone in the head to make any sense, you'd be regarded as fucked up either way, either you just shot someone in the head or you are telling someone you shot them in the head when you in fact did not. Maybe think of a well constructed example?

snip.

And there you have your consequence. It doesn't work any other way online. Here we are in a Thread where people who assumedly had nothing to do with it are berating the actions of others. Same thing.

snip.

But I thought your post can't be summed up to "People should be able to say whatever they want aslong as I agree with it!"? It's funny that you aren't even noticing it.

snip.

It isn't and your belief that it is is irrelevant.

And if you can't rein in your urge to insult and attack everyone you speak to them I don't think you should have the right anymore.

And I think that's a stupid thing to say and that people shouldn't say stupid things. So, now I get to tell you to shut up again, right?

I didn't say all pointless statements could be censored. I said arguments which degenerate into nothing but insults are pointless. Right now we are debating, from two separate viewpoints, the issue of free speech. If I was to abandon my argument and begin telling you you were homosexual, or a Nazi, or any number of other common internet attacks, then there would be no debate. For a debate to have any meaning, it can't devolve into the two participants insulting each other at the expense of the debate, and yet on the internet it is the norm rather than the exception that debates eventually become riddled with insults which diminish the points made on either side.

To take some typical comment threads:

YouTube comments on musical acts: go to suck dick under gate
Go fuck yourself. You have no YouTube skills
i agree bro shes a fucking retard and she needs to die more and more like her are gna be signed up and the music industry will melt the fuck down i think its for the best so i dont have to listen to these retards and the lyrics? jesus she will always have terrible lyrics she just needs a fucking slap and a gunshot between the eyes either way is fine

Random forum post (topic not even related to homoexuality) Fine, you idiots - dip your wicks into fudge for all I care - more women for me!
...just stay away from our children and don't abuse any by 'adopting' them

Now go outside into the real world and say that to someone. See how quickly you get beaten up or arrested for hate speech. I will reiterate and clarify my point. Human interaction is not built around insulting people and screaming insults and abuse at anyone and everyone who disagrees with you. The internet could be used to promote freedom, interaction and internationalism. Instead it's used as a platform for racists, sexists, homphobes and bigots.

If I make a comment on YouTube so racist it would make Fred Phelps offended then I would receive no punishment. If I as part of 4chan attacked a teenager with clinical depression until they committed suicide I would receive no punishment. If I am part of a hate campaign that ends in murder I will receive no punishment. The online world is not disconnected from the real world and being berated by your peers on a forum is not a punishment. It can be ignored, it can be deleted. People cannot get away with the sort of heinous acts that are committed online.

My last two comments were as part of a connected argument, so I will address your two separate reponses to them as one. Free Speech is not an absolute right and it never has been. There are laws which protect it, but there are also laws which prevent you from spreading hate. So while you may not think that free speech should be exercised responsibly, you'd be hard pressed to find a free-speech democracy (or indeed any form of government or collective of people) that agrees with you.

My argument when taken as a whole should make it clear that just because you think someone has said something stupid doesn't mean you have an automatic right to gag them. Have I racially insulted you? Have I spread libel about you? Have I used any offensive or insulting language? Have I impeded on your right to freedom of speech? Have I tried to drive you to depression or suicide?

I hope I have made my position clearer.

 

[General Twinkletoes]

I browse /b/ because it can be a good source of info on what's important on the internet today, not because I'm amused by their worst kinds of trolling.

You can get this info on plenty of better sites

Plus, though 4chan and Anonymous contain the worst of the worst internet actions, they have also been the main actors in the best of the best internet actions. They have single-handedly caught child molesters and cat abusers and people posting bomb threats, reporting all of these individuals to police. I have personally helped with reporting one such person, a kid who abused his cat on webcam, to authorities. The cat was rescued, hell yeah. (Just search Kenny Glenn for information on that case)

There are plenty of sites that also do good things, and they're generally less trollish. Most of the people who have participated in this stuff that I know have done it so that they can have the moral high ground in arguments, and so they could stroke their e-peen.

/b/ is, by definition, random. Its users can do sick shit, funny shit, happy shit, awesome shit, or any combination of them. Doesn't mean that its users are all irredeemably immature assholes, though.

Edit: Got so caught up in defending /b/ that I forgot to mention that I pretty much only browse it for porn these days. The only part of 4chan that I use frequently is /mlp/ because, well, ponies.

Can't you get better porn elsewhere?

 

[chadachada123]

I browse /b/ because it can be a good source of info on what's important on the internet today, not because I'm amused by their worst kinds of trolling.

You can get this info on plenty of better sites

Plus, though 4chan and Anonymous contain the worst of the worst internet actions, they have also been the main actors in the best of the best internet actions. They have single-handedly caught child molesters and cat abusers and people posting bomb threats, reporting all of these individuals to police. I have personally helped with reporting one such person, a kid who abused his cat on webcam, to authorities. The cat was rescued, hell yeah. (Just search Kenny Glenn for information on that case)

There are plenty of sites that also do good things, and they're generally less trollish. Most of the people who have participated in this stuff that I know have done it so that they can have the moral high ground in arguments, and so they could stroke their e-peen.

/b/ is, by definition, random. Its users can do sick shit, funny shit, happy shit, awesome shit, or any combination of them. Doesn't mean that its users are all irredeemably immature assholes, though.

Edit: Got so caught up in defending /b/ that I forgot to mention that I pretty much only browse it for porn these days. The only part of 4chan that I use frequently is /mlp/ because, well, ponies.

Can't you get better porn elsewhere?

It's just a preference. Pick literally any other site online and you can make similar complaints.

"Hurr you go to Redtube, can't you get better porn elsewhere?"

"Hurr you go to Reddit for information on what's currently trending online, there are better sites for this."

"Hurr you use Child's Play to help people, most people I know that use that just do so to be hipsters and stroke their e-peen."

But, to answer your question, 'not really,' as far as porn goes. Animated porn is of a vastly superior quality on /b/ compared to pretty much anywhere else, and there's tons of high-quality real porn there too, of any variety.

 

[iseko]

snip

I agree with you on everything. And I think nothing should get censored. Contradiction? Hang on .

Once you start censoring, you open a door. Who dictates what is okay to censor and what is not? What is offensive and what is not? Who is in control of censorship? I believe in freedom of speech because everyone is entitled to their opinions. Just as I am entitled to disagree. Once someone dictates that I cannot say on the internet: I think god doesn't exist. That is the day I say: bomb the hell out of everything and everyone cuz we are F'ed. And I want people to be able to say to me: you atheist bastard, you are SOOOOO going to hell. Eventhough I disagree with them, it is their right.

Now you might say: I just don't want people to swear like 12 year olds. I don't want people to say: you should go kill yourself. And I agree that saying those things is a bridge to far. But like I said. Once you censor 1 thing. You open the door to censor everything. So I chose the lesser of two evils (in my opinion its the lesser any ways) and censor nothing.

I may support freedom of speech in theory. I may think that the freedom the internet offers is one of the best things about it, in theory. But the overwhelming evidence is that most people can't be trusted with that freedom. Thus, since I also believe freedom is a privilege not a right, if you can't exercise your freedom responsibly, you need to be shut down.

I'd like to believe the internet could be a force for good, but unfortunately I have yet to see real evidence that any sliver of good outweighs the monumental amounts of bad.

Pretty much the same thing as I said before. Who gets to decide what is good and what is bad? They are subjective concepts at best. If morality/humanity comes from society then society should be in control. But that means every individual has his own voice. So censorship is a contradiction. You are looking at this from your point of view. Which is normal. But this means you are pushing your own view of how the world should be onto other people. What if someone else does that to you? You would be pissed and in my opinion you would have every right to be.

Censor nothing. Opinions are just that -> opinions. If you disagree then that is your right. If the majority of the people agree then you will have to conform (for example: murder is bad. If you think it is good you are going to jail)

 

[xplosive59]

4Chan actually has a load of good boards and even /b/ has some good stuff occasionally, I don't get offended easily though so I'm not bothered by alot of the stuff they post, even the bad stuff. However I do not troll myself or purposely go out of my way to attack someone as I treat people on the internet as how I would treat someone in real life.

 

[Sanat]

Who gives a damn. If you don't like a part of the internet, stay out of it. The internet is a platform of free speech and freedom of activity for everyone. If people are screwed in the head and have a desire to share that with others/mess with others in a shared medium, then hell, let them do it. If you don't like it, don't go there. If they encroach on where you are, move or get them banned/filtered.

Cyberbullying shouldn't even be a thing. Don't like someone, and they're harrassing you? Don't communicate with them.

 

[General Twinkletoes]

In other words:

I like free speech! But only when people are saying what I think they should say.

That pretty much sums up near every post in this moronic thread.

The freedom of speech there just devolves into calling everyone fags and n******.

Free speech is a good thing. Free speech on the internet is not. There's a reason sites have moderators and banning. Because otherwise, it'd be unreadable. The most respected forums are generally the ones with the harshest rules, so idiots get weaned out quicker.
If you want freedom of speech solely to call people Racial and homophobic slurs, you've got your priorities way, way off. Freedom of speech needs consequences. There's a reason I can't go into the White house yelling "Al Qaeda is right!". Would the world be a better place if I could?

 

[ToastiestZombie]

In other words:

I like free speech! But only when people are saying what I think they should say.

That pretty much sums up near every post in this moronic thread.

The freedom of speech there just devolves into calling everyone fags and n******.

Free speech is a good thing. Free speech on the internet is not. There's a reason sites have moderators and banning. Because otherwise, it'd be unreadable. The most respected forums are generally the ones with the harshest rules, so idiots get weaned out quicker.
If you want freedom of speech solely to call people Racial and homophobic slurs, you've got your priorities way, way off. Freedom of speech needs consequences. There's a reason I can't go into the White house yelling "Al Qaeda is right!". Would the world be a better place if I could?

And... 4Chan does have moderators and bans. Even in /b/. /b/ is NOT 4chan, it's the RANDOM board on 4chan which means you can say and do pretty much everything you want except for I think child porn. If you were to go onto other places in 4chan and start spouting random shit you would probably get IP banned. You're making the massive mistake that so many people make in thinking that /b/ IS 4chan. It's not! It's like putting a bunch of crazy people in a room, giving them baseball bats and telling them they can do whatever they want with them then saying that the whole human race is bad because of that. It's generalizing and getting simple facts wrong.

 

[ToastiestZombie]

I know what 4chan is but what is this /b/ thing mean

/b/ is the board all these "Look I browse 4chan I'm trolling on the internet mom look xDDDDD so dark and edgy get back 2 da kitchen" kids browse. I never go there. /v/ and /vg/ can be genuinely funny though.

OT: Yeah, no. I still refuse this "we" talk. I'm not associated with jerks who bully girls just because I happen to have an internet connection. Just like WoW players aren't strongly linked to Breivik just because they play the same game as him.

As for censorship on the internet... Well, put it this way; I certainly wouldn't be opposed to actions on the net having real world consequences.

I agree with your point about /b/. It's got a few funny things, a FEW. But most of the people who go on /b/ are people who do it to be "cool", mostly little kids. It's quite funny seeing those same people get really mad and sensitive at some of the things on /b/. Me though, the three I go on regularly are /ic/ (artwork and critique), /co/ and /mlp/.

Captcha: fezes are cool. Someone making Captchas likes Doctor Who!

 

[General Twinkletoes]

In other words:

I like free speech! But only when people are saying what I think they should say.

That pretty much sums up near every post in this moronic thread.

The freedom of speech there just devolves into calling everyone fags and n******.

Free speech is a good thing. Free speech on the internet is not. There's a reason sites have moderators and banning. Because otherwise, it'd be unreadable. The most respected forums are generally the ones with the harshest rules, so idiots get weaned out quicker.
If you want freedom of speech solely to call people Racial and homophobic slurs, you've got your priorities way, way off. Freedom of speech needs consequences. There's a reason I can't go into the White house yelling "Al Qaeda is right!". Would the world be a better place if I could?

And... 4Chan does have moderators and bans. Even in /b/. /b/ is NOT 4chan, it's the RANDOM board on 4chan which means you can say and do pretty much everything you want except for I think child porn. If you were to go onto other places in 4chan and start spouting random shit you would probably get IP banned. You're making the massive mistake that so many people make in thinking that /b/ IS 4chan. It's not! It's like putting a bunch of crazy people in a room, giving them baseball bats and telling them they can do whatever they want with them then saying that the whole human race is bad because of that. It's generalizing and getting simple facts wrong.

Well /b/ is the biggest and most popular part of 4chan, and I did check some of the other boards and some of the shit there was pretty terrible. And really, when does someone get banned who's not specifically trying? It's child porn and... well not much else gets you banned really.

 

[ToastiestZombie]

In other words:

I like free speech! But only when people are saying what I think they should say.

That pretty much sums up near every post in this moronic thread.

The freedom of speech there just devolves into calling everyone fags and n******.

Free speech is a good thing. Free speech on the internet is not. There's a reason sites have moderators and banning. Because otherwise, it'd be unreadable. The most respected forums are generally the ones with the harshest rules, so idiots get weaned out quicker.
If you want freedom of speech solely to call people Racial and homophobic slurs, you've got your priorities way, way off. Freedom of speech needs consequences. There's a reason I can't go into the White house yelling "Al Qaeda is right!". Would the world be a better place if I could?

And... 4Chan does have moderators and bans. Even in /b/. /b/ is NOT 4chan, it's the RANDOM board on 4chan which means you can say and do pretty much everything you want except for I think child porn. If you were to go onto other places in 4chan and start spouting random shit you would probably get IP banned. You're making the massive mistake that so many people make in thinking that /b/ IS 4chan. It's not! It's like putting a bunch of crazy people in a room, giving them baseball bats and telling them they can do whatever they want with them then saying that the whole human race is bad because of that. It's generalizing and getting simple facts wrong.

Well /b/ is the biggest and most popular part of 4chan, and I did check some of the other boards and some of the shit there was pretty terrible. And really, when does someone get banned who's not specifically trying? It's child porn and... well not much else gets you banned really.

And... what's your point? /b/ is the place where you can post anything except child porn, because it's the random board. You shouldn't hold it at the same level as say, the White House. And really, the only reason /b/ is so popular is because it's so controversial. Along with a TON of kids and teens who go on there thinking it's the only part of 4chan worth looking at.

 

[viranimus]

Well. I find this politically correct, Im OK your OK, I dont understand what Ben Franklin meant by saying "Any one that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" as incredibly offensive and infinitely more damaging than someone on 4chan hurting someone elses feelings.

True Freedom of speech can never exist if it comes with requirements and restrictions.

It is truly baffling and actually pretty scary that this generation is so utterly terrified of getting its feelings hurt or its too hard to endure someone saying something that isnt nice. Yes, it is very problematic to coddle and over support your children constantly reinforcing them and telling them they can be/do anything because when they grow up, they have skin that is as thick as a wet Kleenex.

So yeah im not too keen on people wanting to take everyones freedom away, in essence destroy the only thing actually good about the internet all for the perception of a kinder gentler world that does not exist.

The humorous thing is... trying to frame it in such a way as to say if you support this, your opinion is irrelevant because your an evil person.

 

[General Twinkletoes]

And... what's your point? /b/ is the place where you can post anything except child porn, because it's the random board. You shouldn't hold it at the same level as say, the White House. And really, the only reason /b/ is so popular is because it's so controversial. Along with a TON of kids and teens who go on there thinking it's the only part of 4chan worth looking at.

Well it's people who cry the example of shutting down freedom of speech whenever someone suggests 4chan should have less bullshit. And it's the guys who think that /b/ is mature because they have controversial stuff.

And, with your idiots with baseball bats analogy, this is sort of different. If humanity was made of lots of groups of people that were quite similar, and the largest single group did beat themselves to death, is probably more applicable.

 

[mindlesspuppet]

People are either too damn sensitive now or they just don't remember or haven't experienced what life was like before the internet.

I grew up in the early 90s. As kids we were just a big, if not bigger, assholes then than kids are today. We didn't give two shits about anonymity. Most parents were afraid to beat, or even punish, their kids because everyone was super sensitive about child abuse. Schools had absolutely no effective way to punish children. We insulted anyone we felt like, got in or at least witnessed fights daily, and this was all a part of being a kid.

Then a bunch of school shootings happened, the media blamed bullying instead of bad parenting because everyone on the planet can identify with being bullied. At the same time the internet was gaining popularity, so it's only natural that it became an outlet for youth.

Before there was 4chan there were AOL chatrooms that were just as bad. Trolling existed the same then as it does now. Old men soliciting kids was more common back then, largely due to the lack of technology -- no one had webcams, even having a photo that was scanned was rare.

What I'm getting at is the internet has always been like this, only now it gets more attention. And secondly, this is how people are, sure you can be idealistic and say "mankind is generally good" but there's a couple thousand years of history to show that mankind is absolutely disgusting, get used to it or get off the planet.