Trolling, anonymity, the internet community, and you! (somewhat rant-y)

[Ragsnstitches]

snip

Just a quick question. Do you think that free speech is consequence free? Better yet, do you think that True free speech is actually possible?

 

[Ragsnstitches]

snip

Just a quick question. Do you think that free speech is consequence free? Better yet, do you think that True free speech is actually possible?

Read what I've already written and find out for yourself, your laziness shall not be supported.

Not laziness, there is a lot of shit to filter through your previous comments... and I didn't want to speak for you.

Though my question sort of implies what I think you believe. I asked you if you think that free speech is consequence free, implying that I think you believe that free speech is consequence free.

I also asked do you think that True Free speech is actually possible, implying that I think you have a naive notion of what freedom of speech entails.

So do you want to change any of my assumptions or are you comfortable with what I think?

 

[renegade7]

Who gives a damn. If you don't like a part of the internet, stay out of it. The internet is a platform of free speech and freedom of activity for everyone. If people are screwed in the head and have a desire to share that with others/mess with others in a shared medium, then hell, let them do it. If you don't like it, don't go there. If they encroach on where you are, move or get them banned/filtered.

Cyberbullying shouldn't even be a thing. Don't like someone, and they're harrassing you? Don't communicate with them.

EXCEPT that right now, like it or not, there are people trying to take the freedom to communicate freely over the internet AT ALL away from us, and every time another story of trolling or cyber-bullying or what have you makes the news it makes their position all the more solid.

I wasn't really talking about the people who GET victimized on the internet, I was talking about the person or people doing the victimizing.

 

[renegade7]

Recently, I read a story (though it is old news now) about some 4Channers who decided that their beef with 9gag warranted the following action: on a suicidally depressed teenage girl's youtube video, they pretended to be 9gag users and told her on her video's comments to kill herself. Apparently this would make 4Chan look so much better than 9gag.

0/10, don't even bother seeing me after class. /b/ is not 4chan. It's actually one of the best forums on the internet.
There needs to be a "Rants" forum section, so I'll know what to avoid like the plague.

Well I don't remember the finer points of the story then. I'm not talking about specific forums or their populations on the whole, I'm talking about the less savory people who use them. The people to whom acting like jackasses while politicians and business interests try to censor the internet is "Just their idea of fun".

Fixed, by the way.

 

[renegade7]

If anything on the internet should get censored, it should be 4chan. Then, find somebody skilled in teh hax that can intercept Anonymous midway and censor them, too, for they shall surely have an uproar over the kaplowyboompow over 4chan.

Well I don't want anything to be censored, of course. I just want people to be more cognizant of the potential ramifications of the things they say.

 

[renegade7]

People are either too damn sensitive now or they just don't remember or haven't experienced what life was like before the internet.

I grew up in the early 90s. As kids we were just a big, if not bigger, assholes then than kids are today. We didn't give two shits about anonymity. Most parents were afraid to beat, or even punish, their kids because everyone was super sensitive about child abuse. Schools had absolutely no effective way to punish children. We insulted anyone we felt like, got in or at least witnessed fights daily, and this was all a part of being a kid.

Then a bunch of school shootings happened, the media blamed bullying instead of bad parenting because everyone on the planet can identify with being bullied. At the same time the internet was gaining popularity, so it's only natural that it became an outlet for youth.

Before there was 4chan there were AOL chatrooms that were just as bad. Trolling existed the same then as it does now. Old men soliciting kids was more common back then, largely due to the lack of technology -- no one had webcams, even having a photo that was scanned was rare.

What I'm getting at is the internet has always been like this, only now it gets more attention. And secondly, this is how people are, sure you can be idealistic and say "mankind is generally good" but there's a couple thousand years of history to show that mankind is absolutely disgusting, get used to it or get off the planet.

Yea, the politicians and billion dollar business interests trying to limit our rights to free speech totally aren't helped by THAT EXACT SAME REASONING. "Well the internet has always been like this, it's only now getting attention." That fact isn't helping, it's actually making things a bit worse by making trolling look like something that occurs constantly rather than just a fad.

 

[Spitfire]

Are we going to pretend that forums and videogame servers don't have moderators and administrators, and that the internet is some sort of lawless Wild Wild West scenario, where malevolent actions have no consequences?
It may be convenient to think of it that way, but the truth is a little more complicated than that.

If you're playing an online game on a server that's poorly monitored, and where the admins fail to take action against players who have insulted you, then that's a server-side problem, and you need to find a different server to play on, one that has better administration. Simple as that. You can provide negative feedback for the server that was poorly monitored, but that's about it
In this context, gamers are responsible for their own gaming experience, and I can't take seriously people who pretend that that responsibility should lie with the developers of the game in question, governmental authority, or anyone else, other than the player, and the server administrators.

Outside of online gaming, there's an issue on the web with harassment, an issue that in most countries usually constitutes a real-life offense as well, and the offenders are liable to real-life punishment, which has indeed happened [http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2036935/Natasha-MacBryde-death-Facebook-internet-troll-Sean-Duffy-jailed.html].
If you think that online harassment should be punished in real-life more often, then make a case for that. Don't make a case for censorship. The web doesn't need censorship to abide to the law, and feature civilized discourse, as this very forum is one of many examples of.

 

[renegade7]

By the way, I'm not asking people to stop using /b/, stop using voice on XBL, or stop joking on the internet. I think that smack talk is a natural part of any competitive experience.

HOWEVER there is a point where it goes to far. It's not always easy to tell whether a person has had suicide, or drugs, or gender discrimination, or sexual abuse in their life, especially with the anonymity of the internet. YOU may think it's just funny and that people who are offended are just too thin-skinned, but other people may be genuinely hurt.

I'm just saying people need to be more aware of what they say on the internet. Just because you think you have anonymity DOES NOT mean that there are no consequences to what you say.

 

[Conn1496]

Don't knock 4chan till you take the plunge and browse some of the boards, as someone has said it has the very best and very worst of people on the internet.

It aint all about /b/ dont be hatin

Pretty much. I can back this up, yo'.

[captcha]: technicolor yawn. What the hell?

 

[Deviluk]

Unfortunately my brother who is 14 has grown up with a world where being connected with thousands of others is just normal, and therefore he doesn't seem to think they're people. I saw him marine all-in on starcraft 2 (a very ignoble tactic) and his opponent broke down swearing at him, and then going on to say how much he hated his life and playing starcraft. It washed over my brother like a light breeze. It was really saddening. I keep trying to teach him to respect others but the internets lowest common denominator is somewhere in the bottom floors of Hell.

At least he draws the line at doing shit like that to people he knows. Although hearing my friends hate on him and calling him a troll, something he takes so much glee in, is disheartening. I know there are assholes on the internet, but its worse when you're related to them!

 

[ShadowKatt]

small-town anonymity

That's actually a bit of an oxymoron. One of the appeals of living in a small town is that everyone knows everyone else. It's a much more intimate setting and when someone fucks up, EVERYONE knows who did it and whoever's closest generally either deals with it themselves or brings them to the one responsable. In the traditional "small town", anonymity practically doesn't exist.

 

[mindlesspuppet]

People are either too damn sensitive now or they just don't remember or haven't experienced what life was like before the internet.

I grew up in the early 90s. As kids we were just a big, if not bigger, assholes then than kids are today. We didn't give two shits about anonymity. Most parents were afraid to beat, or even punish, their kids because everyone was super sensitive about child abuse. Schools had absolutely no effective way to punish children. We insulted anyone we felt like, got in or at least witnessed fights daily, and this was all a part of being a kid.

Then a bunch of school shootings happened, the media blamed bullying instead of bad parenting because everyone on the planet can identify with being bullied. At the same time the internet was gaining popularity, so it's only natural that it became an outlet for youth.

Before there was 4chan there were AOL chatrooms that were just as bad. Trolling existed the same then as it does now. Old men soliciting kids was more common back then, largely due to the lack of technology -- no one had webcams, even having a photo that was scanned was rare.

What I'm getting at is the internet has always been like this, only now it gets more attention. And secondly, this is how people are, sure you can be idealistic and say "mankind is generally good" but there's a couple thousand years of history to show that mankind is absolutely disgusting, get used to it or get off the planet.

Yea, the politicians and billion dollar business interests trying to limit our rights to free speech totally aren't helped by THAT EXACT SAME REASONING. "Well the internet has always been like this, it's only now getting attention." That fact isn't helping, it's actually making things a bit worse by making trolling look like something that occurs constantly rather than just a fad.

Trolling isn't a fad, it is always going to happen. That aside, politicians and "billion dollar business interests" trying to limit free speech is nothing new either. Moreover, shouldn't mistake it, politicians don't give two fucks if you troll someone online, they are simply looking to take advantage of the issue so they can assert control over the internet for other agendas. Moreover any efforts taken to censor "cyber bullying" are going to fail even harder than their efforts to stop piracy.

 

[DigitalSushi]

I like you OP, you are wise and eloquent.

But much of the stuff I have seen and heard is utterly indefensible. With all the politicians and CEOs of billion dollar companies saying things like "The internet is a haven for pedophiles, pirates, criminals, and socially inept man children" why in the FUCK would you think it's a good idea to, say, troll a suicidal teenage girl just to make your forum site look better than another?

This is a subject I've touched upon on this forum before, don't hate on other forums, all that happens is the other forum then rallies their troops and hate The Escapist forums, stop the hate... hate is one of the few things that can only create trouble, it only causes pain or suffering or other bad shit.

If you act on hate the only by products you create is more horrid shit, and hate.

Love gives you cookies.

Please, don't give me anything about "Well, I don't see why I should care about someone I've never met". If that's your attitude, you are EXACTLY the sort of person the internet censorship lobbies are trying to paint us as. Same goes for "Well I was just having fun, if it was offensive to you you're just a wuss" and "It's not like they'll ever see me in person so it's okay for me to be an offensive asshole". My apologies to offensive assholes everywhere, by the way.

I completely agree with this sentiment, people don't act this way under normal social circumstances, why the hell do they act like that online?.

So please, just think about what you say before you say it, and how that will make you look. You may feel nice and safe behind your curtain of anonymity, but the internet is a COMMUNITY now. A grown man yelling at girls and women on XBL to "GET BACK IN THE FUCKIN' KITCHEN YOU WHORE" (and yes, I did hear several different people say that or things very like it) does not reflect well on this community and makes it VERY difficult for people who are trying to protect our right to free speech to do so.

I like the internet. I don't want to lose it because someone ABSOLUTELY HAD to make the sexist/racist/otherwise horrifically offensive remark that becomes the stereotype of how everyone in the online community behaves. Thank you and good night.

One of the excuses given is that swearing and putting down your opponent in on online game throws them off and makes them worse players and gives the sweary aggressor an advantage in winning the game, its only a game, why the hell are these people being horrible just to win a game? its not important, its only a game!

You never see Usain Bolt calling all the other sprinters "dickheads" before doing the 100 metres at the Olympics, and that shit is important.

 

[Xpheyel]

Unfortunately my brother who is 14 has grown up with a world where being connected with thousands of others is just normal, and therefore he doesn't seem to think they're people. I saw him marine all-in on starcraft 2 (a very ignoble tactic) and his opponent broke down swearing at him, and then going on to say how much he hated his life and playing starcraft. It washed over my brother like a light breeze. It was really saddening. I keep trying to teach him to respect others but the internets lowest common denominator is somewhere in the bottom floors of Hell.

At least he draws the line at doing shit like that to people he knows. Although hearing my friends hate on him and calling him a troll, something he takes so much glee in, is disheartening. I know there are assholes on the internet, but its worse when you're related to them!

Wait, so your brother is the problem in a story about a guy cursing at him over a game of Starcraft 2? Is this tactic a glitch that is being exploited? If not, how is different from zerg rush in the original SC? Unless theres some way more provocative in this story the dude that lost his shit over being beaten in a game is the problem, regardless of how cheap the tactics may've been.

 

[boag]

Because all of 4chan is made up by /b/

and there is no discussion aside from rape, killing and pedophilia.

Also all cats are evil.

All british people have crooked teeth and a smarmy attitude.

All Mexicans have brown hair and wear sombreros.

All Aquatic life are fish.


Generalizations are always the best way to start a discussion 100% of the time.

 

[renegade7]

Don't knock 4chan till you take the plunge and browse some of the boards, as someone has said it has the very best and very worst of people on the internet.

It aint all about /b/ dont be hatin

I have no problem whatsoever with 4Chan or /b/. In fact, I support forum sites and how they promote open sharing of ideas, many of which surround topics that would be much more difficult to discuss without that curtain of anonymity.

However, there are people that abuse that curtain of anonymity, and we risk losing that freedom because of them.

 

[renegade7]

Because all of 4chan is made up by /b/

and there is no discussion aside from rape, killing and pedophilia.

Also all cats are evil.

All british people have crooked teeth and a smarmy attitude.

All Mexicans have brown hair and wear sombreros.

All Aquatic life are fish.


Generalizations are always the best way to start a discussion 100% of the time.

I am by no means saying all 4Chan users are on /b/, and all /b/ is discussion of rape and murder. I am citing one example of something a few people did as part of a larger discussion-rant about the abuse of the anonymity the internet provides us, and how that abuse causes us to risk losing it.

 

[zehydra]

They don't give a shit. These people are just idiotic scumbags who don't realize how awful they are, or they just don't care. Especially 4chan. I don't like 9gag, but the people who go on it aren't fucked up. Every time someone says they browse 4chan, mainly /b/, I lose a lot of respect for them, because it means they genuinely find that shit funny.

Almost. They revel in how awful they are.