True art work is moving, so can games truely be considered art?

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Dreiko_v1legacy

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Aug 28, 2008
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Dense_Electric said:
So there are no other emotions besides sadness?
That's not quite as preposterous as what he's saying.


You can cry out of joy our out of remembrence, these are all varied emotions.


What the TC is proposing is that ALL "average persons" will always express the vastly different emotions that art causes in each of them by magically orchestrated crying.


"No matter what it makes you feel, you will express that feeling through tears!", that's what he's saying. Quite stupid eh? :D
 

The Funslinger

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Sep 12, 2010
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Everyone else has already made any point I would care to, so I'll add this, as it's a blatant conundrum for me.

 

Pearwood

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Mar 24, 2010
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Anything that can inspire an emotion is art. Got an adrenaline rush from a tough boss? Art. Found a new pokemon and thought "Awww it's so cute!"? Art. When people design a game they do it thinking about how what they make will make their audience feel whether it's adrenaline rushing giddiness like a shooter or beat-em-up or paranoid loneliness like a survival horror.

Also there is no "true art", what you consider to be good art is a subjective opinion and can't be treated as fact.
 

Thaliur

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Jan 3, 2008
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DBlack said:
I believe that games cant be considered art until a video game is made that can move the average person to tears.
Beyond Good And Evil exists, therefore games can be considered art. Proven using your argumentation!
Wasn't BG&E also in the games exhibition thing in that museum this news report mentioned recently?
 

Twilight_guy

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Nov 24, 2008
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Actually you're wrong. I'm sure I can find examples of modern art that don't "move" people. In fact [a href="http://www.toutfait.com/unmaking_the_museum/Shovel.html"]this[/a] is such a piece of art. Art is not defined by its ability to convey a message. Art is defined by people acknowledging that it is art. The ability to make you feel emotions is not something specifically unique to art or required for all pieces of art so its a bad way to define art.
 

ZombieGenesis

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Apr 15, 2009
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Aeris being stabbed in FFVII.

I happen to know that moment caused MANY tears among many thousands of players. And of course, that is but one example. Also, Trauma Center? Haven't played it myself but whenever the guys sister gets brought up, people start getting emotional. I dunno.

I remember there was an RPG set in the future which forced you to let a little girl die... two of my friends watched me play through that section, both got rather weepy. I honestly don't remember what the game was which pisses me off to this day.
 

Legion IV

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Palademon said:
Ok, if you want to play it that way, go play Shadow of the Colossus. If you don't feel something at the end parts you have no soul.
What you mean the story where an idiot runs around world doing terrible things to save a loved one. At first maybe he didn't know but if a evil like mist or soul thing went into me and i passed out every single time i'd think somethings wrong.

Look death is hard it is, but the person wouldn't want you to do all that crap and cause all that trouble just to save them.

The game just made me mad at how selfish and insane the main character is. I know a 10 year old girl who had a family member die and she handled it better.

The dudes selfish and stupid, hate that game.
 

DEAD34345

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Aug 18, 2010
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DBlack said:
I believe that games cant be considered art until a video game is made that can move the average person to tears. True art work is able to move someone emotionaly, and after all the years i've been playing games the only thing thats ever really moved me was when Donkey Kong went into his banana horde and saw it empty. If anyone has a good example of a moving game let me know, I'd be interested to hear if anyone has ever shead a tear over pixels.
I'd be more interested to hear of someone who has ever shed a tear over a painting, because I sure haven't. In fact most famous paintings do absolutely nothing for me, I'd say the strongest emotion I have ever felt from a painting was creeped out, when I saw a couple of Francis Bacon's portraits.

I'd bet good money that more people have been emotionally affected by games in the past decade or so, than paintings in the last decade or so.
 

NinjaDeathSlap

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Fanboy said:
Why does art always need to evoke the emotion of sadness? I didn't cry when I first saw the Mona Lisa.
/thread.

and there are plenty of games I consider art. Thinking about it, the three major facets of art in today's society are visual art, musical art, and dramatic art. So any game that had either great visuals, a great score, or a great story (let alone all three) should by rights be considered legitimate art. So by those rules, I consider the majority of the games I've played to be art.
 

Pillypill

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Aug 7, 2009
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Tears are cheap.

Making someone cry when they're watching a movie is a matter of making two character relatable and then tearing one away from the other in a way that would make you cry if you were in that position. (we've all been at a funeral where one person begans to cry a wale, so you start too) Empathy is powerful so when you see a flesh and blood human being crying on screen, that you've developed a bit of an affection for, you may well shed a few tears. Books have the advantage of making the horror take place within your own mind which is, I think, far more powerful than any acting ever could be.

But games? well no matter how good graphics become, an NPC will never look genuinly human and i've never cried while watching anime so i doubt stylizing those characters would help out much. Games will probably move people to tears one day, some may do now, but they are at a disadvantage. They can't really depict HUMAN suffering.

But games are still "moving", i've been playing "DECAY" an XBLA indie game that really send shivers down my spine. It sometimes makes me not want to turn around because i swear there's going to be something behind me, and it's not even a very scary game.
 

Allspice

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DBlack said:
I believe that games cant be considered art until a video game is made that can move the average person to tears. True art work is able to move someone emotionaly, and after all the years i've been playing games the only thing thats ever really moved me was when Donkey Kong went into his banana horde and saw it empty. If anyone has a good example of a moving game let me know, I'd be interested to hear if anyone has ever shead a tear over pixels.
Silent Hill 2.

One of the endings, so spoiler alert, don't click if you haven't played it and don't want to know.
 

Popadoo

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May 17, 2010
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What about the games that make us laugh, or worried, or angry, or scared? Just because they aren't sad they can't be art?
And plenty of games can make people cry.
 

PunkRex

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Fanboy said:
Why does art always need to evoke the emotion of sadness? I didn't cry when I first saw the Mona Lisa.
True. Hard work in itself can be emotional.

Artwork for me is one that displays the creators/subjects emotions or oppinions but GOOD artwork is one that makes others feel their own. It also needs effort, you know blood, sweat and tears. The Mona Lisa definatly took hard work and portrays the subjects feelings but it only really makes me feel a little calm. Coporal Hearts death in Timesplitters 2 though, NOW THAT made me feel things.
 

Rayne870

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Am I just emotionally constipated or is it normal to need more than a painting or a song to cry?
 

NinjaDeathSlap

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Legion IV said:
Palademon said:
Ok, if you want to play it that way, go play Shadow of the Colossus. If you don't feel something at the end parts you have no soul.
What you mean the story where an idiot runs around world doing terrible things to save a loved one. At first maybe he didn't know but if a evil like mist or soul thing went into me and i passed out every single time i'd think somethings wrong.

Look death is hard it is, but the person wouldn't want you to do all that crap and cause all that trouble just to save them.

The game just made me mad at how selfish and insane the main character is. I know a 10 year old girl who had a family member die and she handled it better.

The dudes selfish and stupid, hate that game.
Yes, because when someone has lost the love of their life, the first thought that will go though everyone's heads are "Now let's be rational about this". Love is irrational almost by definition, and if it wasn't there'd be no point in it.
 

emeraldrafael

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Fanboy said:
Why does art always need to evoke the emotion of sadness? I didn't cry when I first saw the Mona Lisa.
Basically this. There's alot of games in the smithsonian that didnt make me cry or I never played (like Pacman and Portal respectively). But if thats what needs to happen for it to be "art" then persona 3 Fes made me cry, there fore it is art.

OT: Art isnt (always) about sadness. Its about the emotion something make you feel. Art is very subjective, and there are different tiers. there's High Art and there's Low Art, and everything falls into that category. As long as something makes you feel, and you consider it art, its art. Others may not see it as art, but thats them.

Getting slightly off topic of games to make a point)
<spoiler=This starving dog is art>http://s1.hubimg.com/u/267132_f260.jpg
sorry that its so small, its hard to find a single pic with all of the images in it together

But most would say its animal abuse (thats dog food the words are made of, and its just out of reach of the dog, though it knows and smells its there. So its a constant reminder and is essential edible food for a starving dog that is just out of its reach), but the art community has had the most lively debates as to whether this is art or not.

EDIT: In fact, its so lively of a debate that there's actually armed guards protecting this dog, so animal rights groups cant "liberate" it, because thats stealing a work of art. Sorry, friend sent me an email after he saw the post to let me know this bit of information.
 

Palademon

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Legion IV said:
Palademon said:
Ok, if you want to play it that way, go play Shadow of the Colossus. If you don't feel something at the end parts you have no soul.
What you mean the story where an idiot runs around world doing terrible things to save a loved one. At first maybe he didn't know but if a evil like mist or soul thing went into me and i passed out every single time i'd think somethings wrong.

Look death is hard it is, but the person wouldn't want you to do all that crap and cause all that trouble just to save them.

The game just made me mad at how selfish and insane the main character is. I know a 10 year old girl who had a family member die and she handled it better.

The dudes selfish and stupid, hate that game.
But that was one of the aristic points. You aren't supposed to hate him for that. You decide. The game doesn't shove down your throat how it's definately a good decision, it even makes you feel sad on purpose to bring up the idea that maybe it isn't ok. And you're saying the game is bad for making you feel how you were supposed to? He got punished for what he did. He killed innocent creatures and became possessed for a girl he loves.
 

PixelKing

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Sep 4, 2009
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I never cried at a movie, painting, song or any other type of media. Does that not make them art?