True art work is moving, so can games truely be considered art?
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There's people that smear shit on canvas and call it art.
Though it does make me cry inside, not because of the art, but because of my crushed faith in the human species.
As for your original point; When Sephiroth killed Aerith, I bawled like a baby.
So it's art.
Though it does make me cry inside, not because of the art, but because of my crushed faith in the human species.
As for your original point; When Sephiroth killed Aerith, I bawled like a baby.
So it's art.
Clearly, you've never played Mother 3.
But art is about more than just sadness. In terms of invoking emotions, between a few games we can see an entire spectrum of emotions that transfer from the character to the player. A sense of isolation in a world infinitely bigger than themselves can be achieved from a game like Shadow of the Colossus. A visceral feeling of beating someone into a bloody pulp can be found at several points in God of War 3, namely the Poseidon and Zeus instances.
Serenity? We've got that too. Play a few moments of Flower, and you'll find yourself in a whole new peace of mind. Or, alternatively, wanting to see the entire field lit up in flames, depending. But, still, serene.
How about a sense of accomplishment? Plenty of games will offer that kind of satisfaction, in various ways. Want an adrenal rush? Log in to a multiplayer shooter. Want betrayal, assistance, humor, puzzles, and bonding with a character that slowly remembers/regains their humanity? Pick up Portal 2.
Art is about more than just sadness, friend.
But art is about more than just sadness. In terms of invoking emotions, between a few games we can see an entire spectrum of emotions that transfer from the character to the player. A sense of isolation in a world infinitely bigger than themselves can be achieved from a game like Shadow of the Colossus. A visceral feeling of beating someone into a bloody pulp can be found at several points in God of War 3, namely the Poseidon and Zeus instances.
Serenity? We've got that too. Play a few moments of Flower, and you'll find yourself in a whole new peace of mind. Or, alternatively, wanting to see the entire field lit up in flames, depending. But, still, serene.
How about a sense of accomplishment? Plenty of games will offer that kind of satisfaction, in various ways. Want an adrenal rush? Log in to a multiplayer shooter. Want betrayal, assistance, humor, puzzles, and bonding with a character that slowly remembers/regains their humanity? Pick up Portal 2.
Art is about more than just sadness, friend.
Warning! Wall of text.
I do find it funny how I just got done writing this and this discussion came up.
[spoiler"wall of text"]Art, the quality, production, expression, or realm, according to aesthetic principles, of what is beautiful, appealing, or of more than ordinary significance.
A painter?s steady hand and vast expanse of ideals can be fixated through every brushstroke, as can a singer?s words cascade through a music hall, filling the audience?s mind with an almost euphoric and giddy bliss.
An artist has a duty, to expand the mind, and relax the spirit. And with every soul that he or she touches and every expression they deliver, their job has been fulfilled. Gaming has become huge in the global market, entertainment sales, video game?s sales have risen to near astronomical levels. But why? A game is simply a toy, is it not? All video games do is entertain by displaying on screen commands, actions, and events. But these events create strange ?out of body? experiences for the player, allowing new ground to be covered in the area of storytelling, musical scoring, and above all, immersion.
It is immersion that allows people to become entranced in a game, playing on hours to beat a level, or an online match. Games create moments that neither books, nor movies, nor plays can provide. They allow us to live our dreams of being a space marine, or the ?last ditch hope for humanity? archetype, more so than any other.
As this medium has grown in size and respectability, it?s fans have as well. Wishing to be taken seriously as an avid art form, although many more wish against this due to their own misconceptions of ?Art?. Many are against the idea of games being art, but it isn?t a decision we can vote on, when enthusiastic developers wish to create something beautiful using a computer program, they will, and have.
I always like to use the 2007 game Bioshock as an example of art. To put it simply and quickly, you start out the game with a mystery, an almost cliché one at that, Who am I? And throughout the entirety of the game you are looking for yourself, and constantly questioning if you really have any control at all. The city you wake up in is an underwater utopia, devoid of the censor, of morality, of limits.
Capitalism and all its beautiful flaws, presented in beautiful form, inside a video game no less! And they do it tastefully, not in some pseudo intellect that one might think. Other games have thrown themselves into the spotlight lately, and as games worth being called art, may it be Limbo a cell shaded side-scroller or Flower a.. well I don?t know how to explain flower without simple terms, just know that it is indeed artistic.
You see the thing one must understand about art, is that it will come, in a neatly prepared million dollar package, or a small independent game, that can be made from anywhere from 100 people to a single person. And as people see the industry becoming saturated with modern day shooters or space operas, understand that we gamers have a call to our hobby. Same as a movie connoisseur has a personal stake in the video medium, we have the ability to change the games we play, and as such, we change the way games are created and expressed.
So as you sit down to play a favorite game of yours, try and take in the work of hundreds of developers, writers, as well as some directors, musicians, and artists. Because they probably enjoy what they do, and we most defiantly enjoy what they produce.
[/spoiler]
I do find it funny how I just got done writing this and this discussion came up.
[spoiler"wall of text"]Art, the quality, production, expression, or realm, according to aesthetic principles, of what is beautiful, appealing, or of more than ordinary significance.
A painter?s steady hand and vast expanse of ideals can be fixated through every brushstroke, as can a singer?s words cascade through a music hall, filling the audience?s mind with an almost euphoric and giddy bliss.
An artist has a duty, to expand the mind, and relax the spirit. And with every soul that he or she touches and every expression they deliver, their job has been fulfilled. Gaming has become huge in the global market, entertainment sales, video game?s sales have risen to near astronomical levels. But why? A game is simply a toy, is it not? All video games do is entertain by displaying on screen commands, actions, and events. But these events create strange ?out of body? experiences for the player, allowing new ground to be covered in the area of storytelling, musical scoring, and above all, immersion.
It is immersion that allows people to become entranced in a game, playing on hours to beat a level, or an online match. Games create moments that neither books, nor movies, nor plays can provide. They allow us to live our dreams of being a space marine, or the ?last ditch hope for humanity? archetype, more so than any other.
As this medium has grown in size and respectability, it?s fans have as well. Wishing to be taken seriously as an avid art form, although many more wish against this due to their own misconceptions of ?Art?. Many are against the idea of games being art, but it isn?t a decision we can vote on, when enthusiastic developers wish to create something beautiful using a computer program, they will, and have.
I always like to use the 2007 game Bioshock as an example of art. To put it simply and quickly, you start out the game with a mystery, an almost cliché one at that, Who am I? And throughout the entirety of the game you are looking for yourself, and constantly questioning if you really have any control at all. The city you wake up in is an underwater utopia, devoid of the censor, of morality, of limits.
Capitalism and all its beautiful flaws, presented in beautiful form, inside a video game no less! And they do it tastefully, not in some pseudo intellect that one might think. Other games have thrown themselves into the spotlight lately, and as games worth being called art, may it be Limbo a cell shaded side-scroller or Flower a.. well I don?t know how to explain flower without simple terms, just know that it is indeed artistic.
You see the thing one must understand about art, is that it will come, in a neatly prepared million dollar package, or a small independent game, that can be made from anywhere from 100 people to a single person. And as people see the industry becoming saturated with modern day shooters or space operas, understand that we gamers have a call to our hobby. Same as a movie connoisseur has a personal stake in the video medium, we have the ability to change the games we play, and as such, we change the way games are created and expressed.
So as you sit down to play a favorite game of yours, try and take in the work of hundreds of developers, writers, as well as some directors, musicians, and artists. Because they probably enjoy what they do, and we most defiantly enjoy what they produce.
[/spoiler]
I'm gonna spoil these otherwise this is going to take up pages by the end of it
<spoiler=Quote 1>
<spoiler=Quote 1>
Ericb said:
if we are going to judge art by it's ability to produce an emotional response, video games,in my opinion, are clearly superior to modern art. your "average person" will walk an art gallery and the most you'll get out of them is "oh, that's interesting" or "that looks pretty". However give them a basic grounding in gaming, if they haven't already got one, and sit them down to play, for an example the half life 2 games, you will be hard pressed to find someone who does not develop some sort of a emotional attachment to the character and the cause they are working for, even if it a minor one. I struggle to imagine anyone not being moved even the tiniest bit by the final scene of episode 2.
A grayscale picture of a chair is considered art and the only thing moving when it comes to that is my bowels because the person who took that stupid picture is a piece of shit. If that boring shit can be art then videogames should be considered Hyper-art.
My freaking gosh. That means you either have a heart of stone or you just haven't played the right games.
Final Fantasy VI
Final Fantasy VII
Final Fantasy X
Shadow of the Colossus
Beyond Good and Evil
Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney (the sequel, Justice for All, even more)
Professor Layton and the Unwound Future
Red Dead Redemption
Halo: Reach
Heavy Rain
Not all these will drive all people to tears, but many people have been. 'Nuff said.
I would also like to say that just because a game has not moved you to tears does not mean the medium is incapable of doing so. If it is possible for a medium to produce true art, it is an artistic medium. An art form. That's that.
Final Fantasy VI
Final Fantasy VII
Final Fantasy X
Shadow of the Colossus
Beyond Good and Evil
Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney (the sequel, Justice for All, even more)
Professor Layton and the Unwound Future
Red Dead Redemption
Halo: Reach
Heavy Rain
Not all these will drive all people to tears, but many people have been. 'Nuff said.
I would also like to say that just because a game has not moved you to tears does not mean the medium is incapable of doing so. If it is possible for a medium to produce true art, it is an artistic medium. An art form. That's that.
Wrong.DBlack said:
Anything can make people cry like little babies, is the death of a person then trully art?
You might get the beauty, but is it?
Art makes us think, art gives us a story, art does fucked up things.
Art doesn't make you just cry, what? Is then a swift kick in the bollocks, art?
I did. And no, I didn't cry. That said...Nfritzappa said:
You'd be surprised how it actually DOES move you in person. I wasn't expecting any reaction, but when I saw it...I dunno, there was a weird feeling to it.Fanboy said:
That said, Fanboy, I agree with you. Just wanted to bring that up.
I could go two ways on this.NinjaDeathSlap said:
First off ok sure maybe but most people then wouldnt go on a quest saving them doing crazy stuff involving a god him passing out constantly by a dark looking energy all the time then waking up back at the temple even though he passed out miles away.
Or i could say that like i said before people have experianced death of a loved one or a love of your life.
i could write mushy paragraphs with my past experiances and others i've seen handle it better but its summed up perfectly with a sentance.
The person whos dead if they knew what you were doing theyed want you to stop. So if that love really is/was that strong you should think of that and accept there wishes. Dont forget them never forget but relize doing all this (specificly what he did) wont end well and she hates what your doing (if she could watch down on you)
Plus ya, i've done it.When somthing terrible happens dont go jumping off a bridge, think for one Fing second and if you cant do it for yourself do it for her!.
gah getting frustrated again by this. Think i proved my point though.
Edit: WAit wait now that am thinking back dosent she actually tell him to stop the ritual!? Holy crap this guy is stupid!.
That's fucking sick. Whatever "artist" made that needs his head examined, or maybe just kicked in. What country is that in?emeraldrafael said:
Edit:
Found it. Nicaragua.
Well, that particular one was in Nicaragua (though I heard there was a second one in Honduras). It was a social commentary that in those countries, homeless dogs werent viewed as pets and that no one cared to try and free/feed/generally take care of it and were happy to watch a dog starve to death if it was declared as "art", and not report it as Animal Abuse.Guy Jackson said:
Its actually pretty empowering, and if you want to go by the definition that art elicits emotion, this is a prime example of it. The Guy's name was Guillermo Vargas, if you want to look him up though.
Not a direct answer, but the 1937 Picasso painting <url=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/74/PicassoGuernica.jpg>Guernica was so powerful that <url=http://www.buzzflash.com/analysis/03/02/07_Guernica.html>during the 2003 announcement of the Invasion of iraq, it was actually covered up int he UN building while the announcement was made, because of what it symbolized.Wayneguard said:
Actually... if I think about it, recently I saw someone cry when they say <url=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/82/Francisco_de_Goya%2C_Saturno_devorando_a_su_hijo_%281819-1823%29.jpg>Saturn Devouring His Son. Mind you this was a woman in your young twenties studying to be an art student.
To cite the Danish artist Storm P.
(This is more applicable to "true art")
"Art is! Art cannot be made."
(This is more applicable to "true art")
"Art is! Art cannot be made."
Maybe I'll just add him to my lottery hit list.emeraldrafael said:
He could have done a painting or used a stuffed dog.
If art is "that which elicits an emotional reaction" then I've been posting art in forums all over the internet for years.
The ability of a piece of art to move is subjective. I cry at the ending of Kingdom Hearts almost every time I watch it, but it's not a great work of art.
It's probably been said, but the amount of people who cried when Aeris died in FFVII has to say something.