Turn Based Combat

[Arina Love]

Short answer: It can't.

Medium answer: If for some arbitrary reason the combat took place in some pocket dimension or sci-fi style board game setup that would work. Also card battle games.

Long answer: Does it matter? So long as the turn based combat is interesting and involved enough to engage you and the story is likeable enough is the mesh really that important? I just got done playing Record of Agarest War which had very involved turn based combat and a pretty damn good story that had nothing to do with each other and it was a really awesome game, mostly because they didn't try to relate the combat to the story. I got to take the story seriously and was involved in the combat. It wasn't a pure immersion but I was definitely immersed in the story and the gameplay.

holly ballz someone here liked Agarest too!! i LOVE agarest games combat is fun, breeding is interesting characters are good!! i recommend Agarest Zero too it as fun as first one!

 

[Fishyash]

Turn based should exist under 2 criteria IMO otherwise it's kinda pointless.

1. You are controlling more than one entity (not necessarily simultaneously though, think pokemon when I say that)
2. There is acctually some strategy involved (so that rules out stuff like final fantasy IMO)

Chess is a great example IMO. It fits both of those very well.

Although I don't really feel that turn based combat is more 'immersive'. Since usually you are not playing a role of someone, more an overseer of a group of people's actions.

 

[Machocruz]

I'll take being able to have 6 party members and combat that isn't sloppy and shallow, over immersion.

 

[Machocruz]

I'll take being able to have 6 party members and combat that isn't sloppy and shallow, over immersion.

If you think Oblivion combat system is better developed than Temple of Elemantal Evil's, or Wizardry 8's, there is no hope for you

 

[Simeon Ivanov]

Heroes of Might and Magic 3 ... nuff said.

 

[2xDouble]

This long and no mention of Chrono Trigger?

Easily one of the most interesting iterations of turn-based combat I've ever seen, especially on the DS version where UI doesn't clutter up the screen.

I'd also like to hold up Final Fantasy IV as an example of engaging turn-based combat (V and VI work as well, but neither were as brutal as IV). If you didn't have quick reflexes (or if you set the ATB gauge to "wait"... sissy. heh.), that game's turn-based combat could obliterate you before you even made a move.

 

[Dark Prophet]

I have played some RPG-s with turn based combat system, mostly old ones that I didn't give a crap about but when I played Fallout and Fallout 2 it really killed the immersion and aggrivated me on so many levels, because if you try to shoota radscorpion and you have like 20 something bullets and very few health items and it it gives you 70 % + chance to hit it and you shoot it 5 times and evry singel hot misses then fuck you.

 

[estoria-etnia]

I don't mind turn based combat, actually, but I vastly prefer the combat system from a game like Tales of the Abyss or Symphonia since it flows better and I have more control over my characters' actions and it's, overall, a lot more intuitive and easier to use than turn based combat. I don't mind it, but it's not something I particularly like.

 

[Gamblerjoe]

in many RPG's you generally see a turn based combat system
some take place in turns
some (most) final fantasy games have that arbitary recharge time system (unsure what the name is)
now consider the gameplay of say Oblivion, as it is an action system it creates a sort of realtime feeling and in general ends up becoming a very immersive expierience, however turn based combat is so broken up so arbitary so slow so....well its not AS good as an real time system.

the basic question is: How can a turn based combat system be immersive or work in sync with story?

Active Time Battle is the term you are looking for.

Turn based games are not supposed to have immersive combat. Thats not the point. They may try to have decent stories tacked on, but the nature of the game is to appeal to strategists and meta-gamers.

I thought it worked well in KotOR..

That wasn't really turn-based, though.

You just had the option to pause the game. It didn't really force you to.

OT: Yeah, I don't like turn-based games. I just don't enjoy them.

But you attacked an then the other guy also attacked, or am I missing something?

Other than that, Worms is awesome (2D Worms that is)

"Turn based" refers to games like Sid Meyer's Civilization and Final Fantasy Tactics. There is not real time battle in those games. They distinctly move from one character or player to the next, each taking their turns in a specific order. Games like KOTOR are played in real time. The attacks may go back and forth, but that is just the timing. It is not based on turns or an initiative order.

 

[Shraggler]

I'm pretty sure turn based combat originated from MUDs/command-line RPGs where the action was done in a very step-by-step, linear way. And there are various reasons for that, but the point being I suppose it stuck around.

I don't find it very immersive either and, to me, it's fairly outdated. I find (as you pointed out OP) games such as Oblivion, Dark Messiah Of Might and Magic, and Dragon Age much more immersive and involving. They feel very visceral (especially Oblivion and Dark Messiah) because of the direct control over characters and their attacks.

The reason it is still around? Perhaps it may be because it's easy to manage, easy to code, more involving for the more "mathematical" gamers, and effectively progresses the game.

 

[bobmus]

There's these really niche games that you probably won't of heard of where you fight against a large criminal conspiracy that completely controls the population of several towns in a world embittered against them. All the while however your character faces the problems of growing into a man of his own free from his family, finding fame and fortune, and coping with a rival who is both annoying and seemingly one step ahead of him.
It uses this really clever turn-based system where you fight with a team of animals that you train to battle, and can be quite strategic at time. This same system is used both to fight the antagonists and random creatures along the way, and is really well implemented.

You should check it out, it's called Poke-something? Poketon? Pokeron? Ah yeah, Pokemon.

 

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

i actually prefer turn based immensily, especially when having more than one person in my group (such as dragon age/kotor/etc...), and it becomes much more based on intellectual/tactics rather than on "LUL TWITCH KILL TWITCH" like quake or unreal (not to say i don't enjoy those games, i have had many good times with friends on those).

preferences, man. we all got em.

although there are some ways TBS can be done badly, some JRPG's are awful at it while some are better than others, and i prefer the hybridish version of it myself (like kotor) where you can pause and it is still turn based, but you display the actions and battles in a semi real time format.

 

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

I'm pretty sure turn based combat originated from MUDs/command-line RPGs where the action was done in a very step-by-step, linear way. And there are various reasons for that, but the point being I suppose it stuck around.

I don't find it very immersive either and, to me, it's fairly outdated. I find (as you pointed out OP) games such as Oblivion, Dark Messiah Of Might and Magic, and Dragon Age much more immersive and involving. They feel very visceral (especially Oblivion and Dark Messiah) because of the direct control over characters and their attacks.

The reason it is still around? Perhaps it may be because it's easy to manage, easy to code, more involving for the more "mathematical" gamers, and effectively progresses the game.

dragon age is not real time...it is still turn based, just a faster illusion to give it a real time look to it. same with kotor.

 

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

in many RPG's you generally see a turn based combat system
some take place in turns
some (most) final fantasy games have that arbitary recharge time system (unsure what the name is)
now consider the gameplay of say Oblivion, as it is an action system it creates a sort of realtime feeling and in general ends up becoming a very immersive expierience, however turn based combat is so broken up so arbitary so slow so....well its not AS good as an real time system.

the basic question is: How can a turn based combat system be immersive or work in sync with story?

Active Time Battle is the term you are looking for.

Turn based games are not supposed to have immersive combat. Thats not the point. They may try to have decent stories tacked on, but the nature of the game is to appeal to strategists and meta-gamers.

I thought it worked well in KotOR..

That wasn't really turn-based, though.

You just had the option to pause the game. It didn't really force you to.

OT: Yeah, I don't like turn-based games. I just don't enjoy them.

But you attacked an then the other guy also attacked, or am I missing something?

Other than that, Worms is awesome (2D Worms that is)

"Turn based" refers to games like Sid Meyer's Civilization and Final Fantasy Tactics. There is not real time battle in those games. They distinctly move from one character or player to the next, each taking their turns in a specific order. Games like KOTOR are played in real time. The attacks may go back and forth, but that is just the timing. It is not based on turns or an initiative order.

that is still turn based at it's core, let me ask, when you both attack, in kotor, do you both hit each other at the same time, or do you take turns? i've battled in that game, hundreds, actually probably thousands of times, and i'll target an enemy from a distance, run towards them, and they have to wait for me to make my first attack because of me targeting them and they had to wait their turn to fire "teh lazerz"

it is real time in the actions, real time in the sense that if you purposely don't select anything, the enemy can keep attacking you, but at it's core it's turn based combat.

 

[Elf Defiler Korgan]

I love a good chance to plan, to coordinate a group, to ponder and react.

If I am pondering and trying to solve problems, I am immersed in a game.