Twilight Princess Symbolism! (Fear and Discrimination)

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snappydog

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Sep 18, 2010
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TP was the first Zelda game I owned and completed, and to me it often seemed to be about different kinds of fear. Later of course I learned from... well, mostly you, Emcee, that in fact Ocarina and Majora had more to do with fear and death and so on, but playing through TP that first time made me uncomfortable every time I encountered a new sort of area. I guess that's something I used to get with games in general, when I started out. Hell, the first Kingdom Hearts made me shit my pants (first non-handheld game I ever played. Heck yeah). Zant and the whole Twilight thing in particular have always been incredibly creepy to me, though.
 

False Nobility

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Jul 29, 2012
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Overusedname said:
In all honesty, I'm not quite sure how I'm gonna handle it. I'd rather not spoil any of ideas right now, but suffice to say I will tackle it at some point.

I'll get to some other guys comments when I don't have a massive migraine, but I'm really glad people are enjoying the series so far.
Fair enough. It's a pretty awkward topic. Way more divisive than even Wind Waker or TP ever were.

I hope your head feels better bro.
 

SomethingWorse

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Sep 10, 2012
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Overusedname said:
In all honesty, I'm not quite sure how I'm gonna handle it. I'd rather not spoil any of ideas right now, but suffice to say I will tackle it at some point.

I'll get to some other guys comments when I don't have a massive migraine, but I'm really glad people are enjoying the series so far.
Once again I would highly recommend you do a critique. I say this because the Last Remnant vid you made is one my favorites from you, and I would love a moment-to-moment deconstruction of the problems from you. And what it did right as well.

I think you could add a lot to the conversation, cuz you never go in blindly loving or hating anything. You can always back up your opinion. Plus it would be an interesting break from the symbolism stuff. It's up to you, I just think you could make it work. And unless I'm missing something, I don't think SS has enough substance in its story for a symbolism vid. Then again I said that about Wind Waker...
 

Mikeybb

Nunc est Durandum
Aug 19, 2014
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Congratulations making it so far through the series, given how much time you give to each title it's an achievement to be recognized.

Subbing to listen at a later date, when time is more on my side.
Always love hearing someones take on a game.
 

Overusedname

Emcee: the videogame video guy
Jun 26, 2012
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Guffe said:
Looking forward to parts 2, 3, 4 and 5 of this one ;)
Don't tempt me XD I just made a big old list of future topics I need to get to at some point. I don't wanna spend two months on just one game.

The_Darkness said:
I agree with you on how the villagers' actions drive home the point that discrimination comes from a place of fear. They don't even give wolf-Link a chance, attacking or fleeing on sight. (Interesting how the animals of the village are a heck of a lot more accomodating.) Yet, at the same time, we know that these villagers are good people - from having spent the previous day with them. I guess that serves as a reminder that even people who are acting nasty don't necessarily see themselves as the bad-guy (well, unless their name is Ganon...)
I was actually thinking of mentioning how the animals treat Link in a more friendly way. It reinforces the ideas about perspective.

By the way, you had excellent delivery giving the line of "So the story does a very good job establishing just how tight nit and loving the community is... before it promptly ransacks the town and abducts all the children."

So, Midna is probably my favourite 'assist' character throughout the Zelda games... Her character arc, from distrusting, demeaning and using Link, through to a begrudging respect, then being saved by Zelda and Link and ultimately becoming fast-friends... Yeah.
I'm REALLY looking forward to what you make of a certain final credits scene, since in my view, it rather damages the lesson of the rest of the game - the lesson of learning to work together despite differences.

I've very little knowledge of Japanese perceptions of Wolves, but you didn't mention Western view doesn't always paint them as the villain. I mean, Roman mythology does have Romulas and Remus being raised by wolves. Though yeah, we do paint them as the villain fairly often. Who's afraid of the Big Bad Wolf, after all? Belief in werewolves is also European in origin... Though didn't Odin have some wolf pets that were believed to be good? (I'll admit my own bias here - I've always liked the mythological feel that wolves have!)

There's also an interesting parallel in having the bearer of the Triforce of Courage transform into a wolf. A lone wolf is one that has left its pack, having either been forced out or having left voluntarily - something that Link is forced (through circumstance) to do in the opening section of the game. Surviving alone, for a wolf, requires strength of character and courage, something that Link goes on to demonstrate. So, yeah - Link is a lone wolf.
That's a pretty cool thought, actually. Wolf Link is very alone at first, since Midna isn't really great company in the beginning.

Any thoughts on the theory that the Forbidden Shadows have some connection to Majora's Mask? They do have a very similar visual style, both items can transform their wearer into powerful be-tentacled creatures, and Majora's origins are somewhat vague. Then again, Termina was something of a Mirror World to Hyrule - Majora may simply be Termina's 'reflection' of the Forbidden Shadows.
You shall soon see~ Bwahahaha.

And lastly, since I mentioned Dark Souls in my previous post:
Have you noticed how both game series involve silent protagonists in medieval fantasy settings who seem to have a thing for breaking pots and slaying ancient evils? :p
I wish I could break more pots in Skyrim. Just doesn't feel like roleplaying otherwise.
 

Overusedname

Emcee: the videogame video guy
Jun 26, 2012
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SomethingWorse said:
Once again I would highly recommend you do a critique. I say this because the Last Remnant vid you made is one my favorites from you, and I would love a moment-to-moment deconstruction of the problems from you. And what it did right as well.

I think you could add a lot to the conversation, cuz you never go in blindly loving or hating anything. You can always back up your opinion. Plus it would be an interesting break from the symbolism stuff. It's up to you, I just think you could make it work. And unless I'm missing something, I don't think SS has enough substance in its story for a symbolism vid. Then again I said that about Wind Waker...
Sorry I didn't read this before. Thanks for the compliment first off. But I kinda wonder how most of the viewers would react to that kind of critical review after 4 consecutive symbolism series on Zelda. I'd have to be careful how I pitch it, ya know? People have certain expectations. Or maybe they don't. Most people who bring up SS on my vids seem to dislike it, and say 'there's no way Emcee can do a symbolism vid on that topic.'

Maybe I can start a poll at some point?
 

False Nobility

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Jul 29, 2012
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SomethingWorse said:
Overusedname said:
In all honesty, I'm not quite sure how I'm gonna handle it. I'd rather not spoil any of ideas right now, but suffice to say I will tackle it at some point.

I'll get to some other guys comments when I don't have a massive migraine, but I'm really glad people are enjoying the series so far.
Once again I would highly recommend you do a critique. I say this because the Last Remnant vid you made is one my favorites from you, and I would love a moment-to-moment deconstruction of the problems from you. And what it did right as well.

I think you could add a lot to the conversation, cuz you never go in blindly loving or hating anything. You can always back up your opinion. Plus it would be an interesting break from the symbolism stuff. It's up to you, I just think you could make it work. And unless I'm missing something, I don't think SS has enough substance in its story for a symbolism vid. Then again I said that about Wind Waker...
He did Cave Story. He can find symbolism in everything.

Overusedname said:
Sorry I didn't read this before. Thanks for the compliment first off. But I kinda wonder how most of the viewers would react to that kind of critical review after 4 consecutive symbolism series on Zelda. I'd have to be careful how I pitch it, ya know? People have certain expectations. Or maybe they don't. Most people who bring up SS on my vids seem to dislike it, and say 'there's no way Emcee can do a symbolism vid on that topic.'

Maybe I can start a poll at some point?
If that works for you, don't hesitate to try it. Feedback is always good.
 

SomethingWorse

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Sep 10, 2012
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Overusedname said:
Maybe I can start a poll at some point?
Well, the escapist has them. You could also use the google thing some let's players and reviewers I know use. And I wouldn't worry about surprising people to much. That kind of stuff is a pleasant surprise for most of us. I think you're at the point where you have a solid fan base of people that'll give everything you do a chance.

I really hope more people see your stuff soon man, crazy that you've been doing this for almost 3 years!
 

Overusedname

Emcee: the videogame video guy
Jun 26, 2012
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snappydog said:
TP was the first Zelda game I owned and completed, and to me it often seemed to be about different kinds of fear. Later of course I learned from... well, mostly you, Emcee, that in fact Ocarina and Majora had more to do with fear and death and so on, but playing through TP that first time made me uncomfortable every time I encountered a new sort of area. I guess that's something I used to get with games in general, when I started out. Hell, the first Kingdom Hearts made me shit my pants (first non-handheld game I ever played. Heck yeah). Zant and the whole Twilight thing in particular have always been incredibly creepy to me, though.
I think I kinda relate. Have you ever played the original Spyro the Dragon on Playstation 1? That was the first 3D game I ever owned/played, and it had a lot of dark areas, scary monsters, loud and intense music, and so forth. It scared the crap out of me. There's something creepy about new games when you're younger.

SomethingWorse said:
Well, the escapist has them. You could also use the google thing some let's players and reviewers I know use. And I wouldn't worry about surprising people to much. That kind of stuff is a pleasant surprise for most of us. I think you're at the point where you have a solid fan base of people that'll give everything you do a chance.

I really hope more people see your stuff soon man, crazy that you've been doing this for almost 3 years!
I hope people continue to give my normal reviews a chance, yeah. And I might just do that poll thing. And thanks yo! It's actually been EXACTLY 3 years since yesterday! :D I uploaded the first vid on june 9th 2012.
 

SomethingWorse

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Sep 10, 2012
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Overusedname said:
I hope people continue to give my normal reviews a chance, yeah. And I might just do that poll thing. And thanks yo! It's actually been EXACTLY 3 years since yesterday! :D I uploaded the first vid on june 9th 2012.
Awesome! Congratulations on making it this far man, that's great. Are you gonna do anything special for the anniversary?
 

Overusedname

Emcee: the videogame video guy
Jun 26, 2012
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SomethingWorse said:
Overusedname said:
I hope people continue to give my normal reviews a chance, yeah. And I might just do that poll thing. And thanks yo! It's actually been EXACTLY 3 years since yesterday! :D I uploaded the first vid on june 9th 2012.
Awesome! Congratulations on making it this far man, that's great. Are you gonna do anything special for the anniversary?
Not at the moment no, I might have to do something for a sub milestone or something soon. We'll see. I might just do the typical thing and discuss one of my favorite games, or do a big countdown. Thanks though!
 

SomethingWorse

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Sep 10, 2012
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Overusedname said:
SomethingWorse said:
Overusedname said:
I hope people continue to give my normal reviews a chance, yeah. And I might just do that poll thing. And thanks yo! It's actually been EXACTLY 3 years since yesterday! :D I uploaded the first vid on june 9th 2012.
Awesome! Congratulations on making it this far man, that's great. Are you gonna do anything special for the anniversary?
Not at the moment no, I might have to do something for a sub milestone or something soon. We'll see. I might just do the typical thing and discuss one of my favorite games, or do a big countdown. Thanks though!
NP, I'd love to hear more about your favs some day. Good luck dude, I look forward to the next episode!