U.S. Senator Takes Pro-NRA, Anti-GTA Stance

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Falsename

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Oct 28, 2010
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GunsmithKitten said:
Falsename said:
Now, is that so unresonable?
Yes. Yes it is. I entirely doubt that you're truly worried about crime and being abandoned b the police. It's their job to protect. And if you do believe it then you're clearly lacking in experience with actual police officers or are letting one experience weigh your judgement.

Regardless, this isn't about crime. Crime happens, everywhere. If you don't believe the cops are doing there job, fine. That sure as hell doesn't give you the right to sell powerful weapons to defend yourself with. You shouldn't take the law into your own hands.

And now I know you're going to say something like "so I should just be defenseless????" to which my response would be, Yes. Fully and whole heartedly yes. Crime happens! It's unfortunate. Just hold on tight while going through life and hope it doesn't happen to you.

You're trying to tell me that you want guns because of what 'might' happen to you one day. Even so there are no guarantees that it'll even be life threatening (firearms escalate situations). And you ignore the facts that what WILL keep happening is mentally unstable people will keep killing innocent others. Children.

But then you probably think it's a GOOD idea to have armed volunteer patrolling schools. You think the answer is MORE guns. Why? Because you're only thinking of yourself. I'm not expecting you to change your opinion, you're too passionate about it to do that. But that doesn't change the fact that it's people like you who are only helping these attrocities.

It's alright though, like racism back in the day the world will slowly remove these terrible ideals like a sickness. We're evolving and you can either get on board with the rest of us or remain stubborn in the ocean. We're not going to wait for you, but you are delaying the process. So thank you for your contribution to humanity, but sooner or later you will be left behind.
 

Alex Baas

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FelixG said:
People need GTA about as much as they need 30 round magazines. They really dont need either, but both are fun to have!
I applaud you sir. That statement is so neutral, wow
 

CCountZero

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GunsmithKitten said:
I'll tell you what.

You get my country to legally require the police to respond to a call for help, to actually protect the citizens and live up to that "Serve and Protect" written on the cars, to actually enforce legal restraining orders, and you know what? I'll surrender all three of my firearms.

How's that grab you?
Well.

For what it's worth, if I lived in the US, I'd have a .45 Semi-Auto on a belt holster with three magazines slapped on there for good measure, plus a .357 Revolver as backup, both with lasers slapped on for those tricky close-encounter or under-the-couch shots, and a powerful handheld light for blinding and "stabbing".

Preferably secured behind en electronic thumbprint lock, even though I don't have kids.

That doesn't mean I'm not happy about living in a place that doesn't make me think that's necessary to protect myself though.

It's not reasonable to think that banning guns will fix anything at this point. They're out there, and there's far too many of them to start collecting them one by one.

However, the thing that scares me the most about people carrying guns openly, outside of their own homes, is how it's possible to own one without proper instruction.

Has anyone ever actually done an off-the-street survey in an open-carry state, on people who were carrying at the time, asking fundamental questions like "What are the basic firearm safety rules?"

The good old "My father taught me" excuse just doesn't really cut it for me.


EDIT: Whoops, seems something odd happened, and the wrong guy got named on the quote. Fixed.
 

Falsename

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CCountZero said:
GunsmithKitten said:
I'll tell you what.

You get my country to legally require the police to respond to a call for help, to actually protect the citizens and live up to that "Serve and Protect" written on the cars, to actually enforce legal restraining orders, and you know what? I'll surrender all three of my firearms.

How's that grab you?
Well.

For what it's worth, if I lived in the US, I'd have a .45 Semi-Auto on a belt holster with three magazines slapped on there for good measure, plus a .357 Revolver as backup, both with lasers slapped on for those tricky close-encounter or under-the-couch shots, and a powerful handheld light for blinding and "stabbing".

Preferably secured behind en electronic thumbprint lock, even though I don't have kids.

That doesn't mean I'm not happy about living in a place that doesn't make me think that's necessary to protect myself though.

It's not reasonable to think that banning guns will fix anything at this point. They're out there, and there's far too many of them to start collecting them one by one.

However, the thing that scares me the most about people carrying guns openly, outside of their own homes, is how it's possible to own one without proper instruction.

Has anyone ever actually done an off-the-street survey in an open-carry state, on people who were carrying at the time, asking fundamental questions like "What are the basic firearm safety rules?"

The good old "My father taught me" excuse just doesn't really cut it for me.


EDIT: Whoops, seems something odd happened, and the wrong guy got named on the quote. Fixed.
OMG you quoted me accidentally! How dare you, I'll sue! xD

Hmmm, you know when you think about it quite a few gamers must be gun enthusiasts. Particularly the 1st person shooter crowd. I mean I understand the attraction of a gun, sounds like you do too given how detailed you thought about what weapons you'd carry around :)D).

So, when the NRA bad mouths gamers they're kind of badmouthing themselves. I guess that's why no one took what they had to say seriously.

My Gawd that was a bad speech! Did WAY more harm that good for them. :p
 

TAGM

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To be honest, for all the raving and caterwauling we need to make over this business of video-game scapegoating, this guy doesn't exacaly seem like the "RAWR RAWR VIDEOGAMES MUST BE BANNED RAWR" we've all started to paint him as.

I mean, he hasn't said "GTA defiantly caused this and should be banned forever no exceptions and fuck you if you think I'm wrong," More "Ya know, there might be a link here? Maybe we should look into it, you know?"

His wording on that, plus the fact that he went on to argue against having assault rifles for hunting (and then people saying "Oh, what, he thinks machine guns are OK but games aren't?" Which, you know, kind of contradicts the report...) Tells me that he's working less on some sort of bias agenda, and more on a vaguely understandable form of logic.

I mean, the games reward you for violence. Common sense and some psychology says that that'll cause a reaction to make the people wanna do it some more. And granted, more common sense dictates that it might well make it less likely to escalate, and there are studies that show that it actually doesn't really have any effect at all, but I think this comes into play here:

"Never attribute to malice what can be easily explained by stupidity."

By which I mean: This guy isn't going after video games because something something eeeeevil twat who can't get on with the future. He just seems like a dude that wants research done into this, without knowing that research already HAS been done on it. So I'm personally not going to discredit him too much for that - although, a bit of research into topics before mentioning them wouldn't go too far amiss next time.
 

VanTesla

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People love to deflect responsibility and use other things to scapegoat the true problems that cause such horrible things to happen for one reason or another... Is the media way to violent and open at times? YES. Is it the sole reason for such acts? NO. Is it even one of the top 5 reasons for such acts? I say NO... My two biggest problems are parenting and how we deal with mental health issues in our society. Those two subjects are hard to deal with without getting into major fights about ones right on how one should parent and honestly not every case is the same.

You can have good parents, but still have a bad child and vise versa, then there is the problem of diagnosing and recognizing if a child has a mental illness and how to handle such a issue as a parent. So better educating society and soon to be parents on signs that a child might have some form of mental illness and addressing it properly is the first step in a better direction.
 

IronMit

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Capitano Segnaposto said:
MikeWehner said:
U.S. Senator Takes Pro-NRA, Anti-GTA Stance



Politician avoids criticism of gun industry, but Grand Theft Auto is fair game.

As the United States once again participates in a heated debate on topics like gun control, mental health issues, and the like, U.S. Senator Joe Manchin has made his feelings known. In an interview with West Virginia's Metro News, the democrat from West Virginia notes that he is a proud supporter of the NRA, but questions whether Grand Theft Auto titles should perhaps be pulled from store shelves.

After firmly stating that he refuses to let the NRA or anyone else "be villainized," Manchin sets his sights on Rockstar's flagship franchise. ""Look at Grand Theft Auto, put out by Rockstar Games in New York City and see what it promotes." Adding later, "Shouldn't that be looked into and maybe be banned?"

Well, for someone who refused to point fingers, Manchin certainly seems to be extending a digit in the direction of the video game industry.

The Senator also engaged in discussion regarding the banning of assault weapons, noting "I don't know anybody that needs 30 rounds in the clip to go hunting. I mean, these are things that need to be talked about."

And he's right; This is a topic that is not only sensitive to just about everyone, but also has a multitude of angles and inspires passionate opinions. But while we're being careful to not step on the toes of everyone from gun owners to mental health practitioners, shouldn't the same care be given to the developers and publishers of videogames? I'll leave that to you to decide.

Source: Gameranx [http://wvmetronews.com/senator-manchin-attempts-clarification/]

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Yes, lets ban GTA, a work of fiction. While we are at it, lets ban books, music, and movies that also have violence in them. As we all know, they are the true villian.

/sarcasm
I think we are going to start taking Prosiam. Equilibrium style
 

CCountZero

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Falsename said:
OMG you quoted me accidentally! How dare you, I'll sue! xD

Hmmm, you know when you think about it quite a few gamers must be gun enthusiasts. Particularly the 1st person shooter crowd. I mean I understand the attraction of a gun, sounds like you do too given how detailed you thought about what weapons you'd carry around :)D).

So, when the NRA bad mouths gamers they're kind of badmouthing themselves. I guess that's why no one took what they had to say seriously.

My Gawd that was a bad speech! Did WAY more harm that good for them. :p
I'll happily admit that I am what one might describe as a "gun-nut", despite not owning any myself.
I like that I don't have to, in order to feel safe.

As for gamers liking guns, I think you're absolutely right. Many of us probably have that... primal? fascination with them.

I do think that can be somewhat dangerous as well, though, outside of the US especially.

I don't believe that video games can ever make violent criminals out of sane human beings, but I do believe that they might give us a more... well, anyway, it might make some of us think we know how to handle a gun safely, even when we don't.

Now, not living in the US, I can't really be speaking for all of the Yanks here, but if I was living there, I'd certainly make sure I knew how to handle a firearm, and would ensure that the people closest to me did too, whether any of us owned one or not.
As such, if anyone I knew happened upon a firearm, they would know what to do, but more importantly, what not to do.

In nations without freely available firearms, despite that being my own preference, I do believe that games might have the negative effect of giving gamers a very casual relationship with said firearms.

There are many factors of firing a gun that games can't provide, recoil being one example.
But there are oh so many that they could provide, but choose not to, just like movies.
Sheer volume of sound from the rounds being fired. Games, even the ones with supposed "good sound effects", just don't get this right. They don't make it imposing, or violent, and it is.

In short, I think games give people a very wrong idea about firearms, and sometimes this causes people who aren't normally around guns, to behave in a very harmful manner when they happen upon one. It's not unheard of for a 15-year-old to find a weapon hidden in a bush, and accidentally shoot a friend with it, because he decided to "have a little fun".

As for myself, if I was a bit younger, I'd fit the "school shooter" profile perfectly. Introvert diagnosed Aspergian with a fascination for firearms and a bunch of instructional DVDs, plus a SWAT4 and ArmA clan with ex-professionals to fill in the rest.

I like guns, and I decided to take it seriously, and at this point I've done everything in the Bolt-Action department, and have the theory down for Autos, although I've never fired an Automatic. Had in my hands, yes. Fired, no.

I consider myself safe around weapons, but I also believe that I'm one of the few people who moved from Call of Duty to actually learning something real.


Anyway, sorry for a messy post, I'm writing this in cooking-breaks. 17 family members, lot of food to prepare :p
 

DrOswald

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Apr 22, 2011
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Falsename said:
You're kidding, right? What about that gunshow loophole?
There actually is no gun show loophole, at least not legally. By federal law, all local, state, and federal laws for selling guns must be adhered to at a gun show. This includes the laws of the place where the transaction is taking place and the places of residence of the dealer and customer. According to federal law, gun shows are just as secure if not more secure than normal channels.

The problem is that the laws are not always adhered to. To close this particular loop hole we need better enforcement, not new laws.
 

Twilight_guy

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Nov 24, 2008
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So apparently this guy thinks that NRA has lots of supporters, so you can't say bad things about them, but GTA doesn't have any supporters so you can say bad things about it? Didn't GTA sell millions of copies, lots of them to people of voting age? This seems like a bad idea too. Them vida' games is bigger then you think Senator.
 

Falsename

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Oct 28, 2010
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GunsmithKitten said:
Falsename said:
It's their job to protect.
You don't know much about American legal history, do you?

There are multiple cases where the courts have found that the police are under no legal obligation to protect people. None. They are not required to respond to 911. They are not required to enforce a restraining order.

They don't even have to pursue if a 12 year old child has just been kidnapped after her mother's murder.

And if you do believe it then you're clearly lacking in experience with actual police officers or are letting one experience weigh your judgement.
Or, I actually know my American legal history.

If you don't believe the cops are doing there job, fine. That sure as hell doesn't give you the right to sell powerful weapons to defend yourself with. You shouldn't take the law into your own hands.
Who is responsible for my protection then? The American government has already decided that the police and military are not responsible.

And now I know you're going to say something like "so I should just be defenseless????" to which my response would be, Yes. Fully and whole heartedly yes. Crime happens! It's unfortunate. Just hold on tight while going through life and hope it doesn't happen to you.
Why should I do that?

You're trying to tell me that you want guns because of what 'might' happen to you one day.
No might to it. IT DID HAPPEN.

But then you probably think it's a GOOD idea to have armed volunteer patrolling schools.
Nope. I'm okay with an armed police officer or trained and armed security employee, but not some yahoo.

You think the answer is MORE guns.
WRong AGAIN.

I simply don't believe we should move the direction of abolition of firearms, I believe we should more effectively enforce the laws we have on guns right now.

It's alright though, like racism back in the day the world will slowly remove these terrible ideals like a sickness. We're evolving and you can either get on board with the rest of us or remain stubborn in the ocean. We're not going to wait for you, but you are delaying the process. So thank you for your contribution to humanity, but sooner or later you will be left behind.
I'm sorry, but I'm not going to render myself helpless so people in different circumstances can feel better.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-12-25/us-firefighters-killed-in-christmas-eve-gun-attack/4443240

Nuff said. I wouldn't expect someone who sells guns for a living to not be bias. Unfortunately for you the gun laws are going to change and all your ignorant "I must defend myself from the world!" ideals won't last long.

It was fun talking with you. If I were you I'd start stockpiling your favourite weapons before the Gov'ment takes 'em from ya.
 

Lunar Templar

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Sep 20, 2009
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Nothing to see here.

Just another idiot in office running his mouth with out understanding what he saying cause he thinks its what people want to hear
 

Lunar Templar

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Falsename said:
ote]


http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-12-25/us-firefighters-killed-in-christmas-eve-gun-attack/4443240
i heard about that. its disgusting.

but if you think the USA government is going to get off they're collective asses and actually DO something, you really need to pay closer attention.

only way guns will get banned is if the people who bought the politicians in congress want them banned