Ubisoft engineer: "Console manufacturers" decide whitch parts of games to keep, pressure 30fps limit

[Strazdas]

So i ran out of characters for subject title. didnt expect that to happen.

I read a recount of a Ubisoft engineers coming to a school to do a presentation. It can be found here [http://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/comments/2j7r9j/delivering_ubisoft_came_to_my_school_for_a/].

Since this was announced earlier some users asked the OP to ask some questions and he tries his best to answer them. there are many answers, but few that stood out were these:

"So what the hell happened with watch dogs?" u/Egg_Slicer

During the presentation, the Online Programmer said that just before they release a game, they have to send a copy to console manufacturers, which then tell them what to keep and what to throw away (sooo yeah Watch Dogs maybe ?).

Apperently console manufacturers now can dictate game developers whitch parts of the games they are allowed to keep in the game and whitch they should remove. they are literally able to cut content they dont want. I find this infuriating, because it means that neither developers nor publishers dont even have control of what their game is going to be like and instead a platform owner can control that.

The Game Architect said that they aim for 60 fps but due to "limitations", they have to settle for 30 fps in recent games. He then implied that console makers are pressuring them into doing the same thing on PC.

This seems to imply that console manufacturers are trying to intentionally gimp PC versions so console versions would look better in comparison. this is inexcusable in my opinion.

The rest of asnwers can be found in timois post [http://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/comments/2j7r9j/delivering_ubisoft_came_to_my_school_for_a/], but those two stood out the most.

Now if we are to assume that the engineers or the OP isnt lieing, which we cannot prove either way at the moment, this would be pretty big shit. however its worth mentioning that neither EA nor Activision (the other two publishing giants) dont seem to either have such problems or allow themselves to be pressured, so i still would say that the blame is significantly on Ubisoft for agreeing to such ridiculous demands.

What do Escapists think?

 

[Shadow-Phoenix]

It's not the ES without a "consoles are the evilest thing on this planet" thread.

 

[jklinders]

I clicked on the link provided after I had already thought to myself "PC master race for the win." I find that ironic.

it's pretty damning, fits a narrative I have felt has plagued game design for a long time and I would like a source that is not so obviously biased before I jump to any conclusions.

Somehow I cannot think a Reddit blog entitled "PC Master Race" is going to be remotely impartial about this.

 

[josemlopes]

... excuse me? Its gotten this bad now? Deliberately holding back gaming for bullshit parity? Are they trying to start consolegate?

And we all know who is doing it. Its Microsoft and their bullshit anti competitive practices. I knew it before I even opened the link.

If the ps4 is better than the xbox, it deserves better performance.

If a PC is better, it deserves the better performance.

We shouldn't pull punches because someone didn't plan ahead and "could get their feelings hurt."

The only one microsoft has to blame is itself.

And Ubisoft reuses everything? Well no shit, has anyone SEEN the video of Far Cry 4 from boogie? The amount of reused enemies, animations, and assets is appaling. Nice to know that Ubisoft sells glorified mods.

I really dont see how you got the idea that it must be Microsoft, as far as I know none of the games that were exclusive to the Xbox One had the framerate locked, Ryse even goes 4k. Not saying who did what but both have their reasons to do it.

 

[clippen05]

It's not the ES without a "consoles are the evilest thing on this planet" thread.

Because clearly theirs no legitimate complaints to be had when technology is impeded for business concerns. Clearly, its just irrational hate for consoles.

 

[Leonardo Huizar]

Just like their "Animation is hard work" excuse for not having female characters

Im totes believing it

 

[Rayce Archer]

I'll buy this when someone not from Ubi verifies it.

They are suspect to me.

 

[tippy2k2]

Because when I think of a reliable and unbiased source, I think a thread created by a user on reddit in the "PC master race" thread whose proof is...a picture of a slide with Ubisofts name on it.

Well I'm convinced!

...yeah, get back to me when there's...well....ANY proof of this and that the rep said that.

 

[Atmos Duality]

The source has obvious bias, but at the same time I've heard that this is happening elsewhere from the modders and code jockeys.
Even in absence of those, it would make sense from a business perspective for Microsoft, given that the Xbone has started far behind its competition in performance, perception, and value.
To pull ahead at this point requires exclusives or cheating. And the exclusives aren't exactly thrilling so far.

(hell, even a WiiU looks more promising now)

The fact that Ubisoft would even consider devaluing their own product sounds abhorrent...until you realize it's Ubisoft; the same company that has a history of devaluing the PC version of their games (don't forget their unrequited love of Always Online DRM; something they're still salty about no doubt).

Just one more reason to not do business with them...or Microsoft.
*shrugs*

 

[RedDeadFred]

While I do enjoy many of Ubisoft's games, they do seem to compulsively lie. I'll wait for other sources of confirmation before believing this. It would be nice to think that all of the evil is only coming from two main sources, but I'm sure it's more of an industry wide problem.

 

[mmiki]

It's not the ES without a "consoles are the evilest thing on this planet" thread.

Most of it comes from a belief that consoles are holding back PC gaming.
If what those guys said is true, then it legitimizes that sentiment.

I kinda doubt it though. It's an easy way to shift blame to console manufacturers, when it's been clear for a long time that AAA companies prefer consoles to PC. It allows them to have more control over content and content delivery, they worry less about piracy and hardware conflicts. It's their business model to put consoles first, it's not something Microsoft or Sony imposed on them.

I think people on that subreddit are falling into the trap of believing what they want to hear. I've even seen comments like "I hope the guys that answered those questions don't get fired". Do you really think for a planned event like this they wouldn't have been given instructions from the marketing department? It's the same old story Ubi has been spinning forever - "PC gaming is very important for us." Just because it's an 'engineer guy' instead of the 'PR guy' that's saying it, it does not make it any less bullshit.

/sigh

 

[Shadow-Phoenix]

It's not the ES without a "consoles are the evilest thing on this planet" thread.

Most of it comes from a belief that consoles are holding back PC gaming.
If what those guys said is true, then it legitimizes that sentiment.

I kinda doubt it though. It's an easy way to shift blame to console manufacturers, when it's been clear for a long time that AAA companies prefer consoles to PC. It allows them to have more control over content and content delivery, they worry less about piracy and hardware conflicts. It's their business model to put consoles first, it's not something Microsoft or Sony imposed on them.

I think people on that subreddit are falling into the trap of believing what they want to hear. I've even seen comments like "I hope the guys that answered those questions don't get fired". Do you really think for a planned event like this they wouldn't have been given instructions from the marketing department? It's the same old story Ubi has been spinning forever - "PC gaming is very important for us." Just because it's an 'engineer guy' instead of the 'PR guy' that's saying it, it does not make it any less bullshit.

/sigh

it's almost the same way PC AAA's prefer delivering on PC first and consoles last and I've seen it that way for years on both sides but when PC doesn't get the royal treatment it's instantly a shift to consoles are to blame and yet I can't recall seeing console users throw that line when PC AAA's don't go well or go to consoles at all, I know PC can run many a game but it doesn't mean it has to have them all and the same for consoles.

At the same time I know they made a rather bad choice for this gens hardware (Nvidia also asking too much didn't help at all) and in turn it's limited some of their games but in the end they are still playable and nothing is holding PC back, at least not when I see games like SC and ED, in fact I've been disappointed more in Indie devs that whip up big hype pieces for their games on KS, halfway through they end up going to Early Access and then cobble up a game and throw it out when it hits 1.0 and call it a day (like DS9 and PA devs have done among others) and that's just on the PC side and it shows that consoles didn't hold them back, they held themselves back, you can design any game you want on PC without limitations yet I'm seeing a whole load of limitations the devs are creating out of nothing when making games on that spectrum besides a few like SC which are pushing the limits.

When I see a PC I see no limits, when I see a console I see half the limits but when I see a PC only game that was created in such a shoddy manner and yet people have the gall to shift it all to consoles fault I can't help but roll my eyes every single time because the reality is yes there are certain limitations but no they aren't always to blame, just look at Ubisoft and their optimization/general skills at making their games, they are piss poor and then we have EA with BF4 and SEGA with PC only ROME II.

I just feel this is another tirade of "consoles are the devil and must be destroyed" type pieces because let's face it the OP is by no means a multi platformer because post history has dictated as being PC only, hell I don't ever see him posting any ill of PC, in fact I've hardly seen any ill spoken of PC when they cause or have a problem but instead it;s easier to throw some news that PC has a problem lets all shift it to consoles, all that does is fuel the fanboy fire and it gets us bumfuck nowhere, I mean cool we know some set in stone facts, what does that get us as consumers?, nowhere because we are not the creators we already have our minds made up at this time due to the nature of the replies.

Apart from that I agree with you on what people think they want to believe and the whole Ubi thing.

I'll add as a last note that it probably doesn't help that OP is biased as well as gathering a piece from a biased area of the net to confirm his bias view, this helps no one but the PC only people who share his skewed view.

 

[Sigmund Av Volsung]

Just like their "Animation is hard work" excuse for not having female characters

Im totes believing it

*Precision-Interjection Strike Inbound*

Actually, it would be quite a lot of work, why? Because Ubisoft are goddamn idiots. The gist of their multiplayer system in Unity is that it's the same as Watch_Dogs' 'seamless multiplayer' thing where you can pop in and out of missions. Why is that stupid? Because WD worked in such a way that you always saw your character as Aiden Pearce, but all other players looked like random NPCs(so that you don't get confused about your avatar and that enemy players remain inconspicuous).

They lifted that type of multiplayer into Unity, meaning that all players effectively see themselves as Arno, and other players as generic assassins. Since the game involves a lot of parkour, there'd be quite a lot of work that would need to be done to make a female assassin due to notable variations in biology, as well as another singleplayer campaign since those MP missions undoubtedly involve dialogue.

Which actually would be a lot of work. Ubisoft are still idiots, but for different reasons. Berate them for not explaining stuff, for stupid creative decisions and for churning out boring protagonists for their AC games(and their other games too).

*ehem*

Sorry, but the information I give tends to be in the minority in regards to that discussion, for a more detailed report, check out [a href=http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/video-games/columns/experienced-points/11750-Ubisoft-Straighter-Whiter-Duder]this article[/a] by Shamus Young.

OP: Utter nonsense. It's Ubisoft strong-arming the devs so as to cut expenses and development time. It goes without saying that they created rumours that the PC version of Watch_Dogs was gimped so as not to upstage the console versions.

I don't believe that Sony, or even Microsoft would push for 30fps on their consoles.

Also I swear that manufacturer approval on upcoming games has been a thing for quite some time? I doubt it manifests into some sort of shared conspiracy to downplay the consoles: that would be unbelievably idiotic, even for this industry

 

[Gladion]

During the presentation, the Online Programmer said that just before they release a game, they have to send a copy to console manufacturers, which then tell them what to keep and what to throw away (sooo yeah Watch Dogs maybe ?).

This has been in practice in the games industry since the Nintendo Seal of Quality. Nothing outrageous about that, since all console manufacturers do with this is ensure that no alpha-quality games are being released on their consoles (i.e. what's currently happening on Steam and, ironically, the WiiU Store or whatever it's called) or Tamakeri porn is sneaked into the next LEGO game or whatever. If a console manufacturer actually told a company to cut content because of whatever reason (spite? I don't know what they would have to gain from that, anyway), there is no way in hell this info wouldn't get leaked to the public. So I'd say: relax on this part.

The Game Architect said that they aim for 60 fps but due to "limitations", they have to settle for 30 fps in recent games. He then implied that console makers are pressuring them into doing the same thing on PC.

This seems to imply that console manufacturers are trying to intentionally gimp PC versions so console versions would look better in comparison. this is inexcusable in my opinion.

This one's more concerning at first glance, because I can definitely see where MS and Sony would benefit from not being constantly forced to face better-looking games on PC (although tbh I doubt it's really much of a concern for either party). However, there is one major flaw in this argument: namely that console manufacturers are "pressuring" Ubi to do anything. With what? Console manufacturers are at the mercy of publishers, and not the other way around. See how everyone's been working with Nintendo since the N64-era. Nintendo didn't do jack shit to reel in 3rd party support (maybe a bit harsh, but you get the gist), and for decades now, their consoles' only reasons for existence were their exclusives, mostly 1st party.
Bottom line, no console manufacturer has anything to pressure publishers into doing anything outside of exclusivity deals, with which this has nothing to do.


tl;dr console makers have zero control over publishers, hence those two quotes can be safely ignored

Captcha: vote pancakes. Yes, My Leige, I shall.

 

[Rozalia1]

A biased piece from a biased "site" with no shred of actual evidence? Me putting up any random made up gunk on reddit would be more credible than that as my piece would at least not be obviously ridiculously biased at a glance.
I've seen you call people out on having uncredible sources before so you know its not a good thing to do...yet with such knowledge you do it anyway? The goals of this thread (as you aren't ignorant on the blunders in the OP) can only be spreading more of the divisive hate common here, or its spreading that old chestnut of the Shadow Cabal of Console Manufacturing ruling the world through evil (likely both).

Lets see what else. You've in the past used console marks as evidence that a userbase is X, yet link us to a thread with PC marks [footnote]Unreasonable people who believe in the platform wars garbage for those who don't understand[/footnote]saying some seriously embarrassing things.
Now normally we'd get "well don't lump me in with the bad apples" and that is fine enough on its own...but what behaviour have you shown to be different to them exactly?

Now the two "main points" you highlighted. The first shows an obvious lack of understanding of getting a game on consoles, yes if you want your game on the Wii U and it has a hardcore sex scene they will ask you to cut it if you want it on their platform (regrettable, but understandable). If what they responded with was "we'll block this unless you cut the performance on the PC version" we'd know, we'd bloody know.
The second doesn't state something, instead "implies"...no exact words of course so this is likely a listener hearing something and processing it how they want to hear it (if this thing is even legit).

There is no discussion here, you have to force yourself if you want to believe this as anybody who analyzes it for even a second will see its twaddle.

 

[Random Gamer]

What do Escapists think?

Simple: burn the house down. Destroy the console market utterly.

And that's not hyperbole, I'm deadly serious here. I'm not just slightly annoyed by some journalists when it comes to gaming reporting, I'm fucking done with some of the firms in this industry and wants to see them bomb hard.

 

[Poetic Nova]

This describes my reaction on this the best:

At this point Ubisoft is just a source for popcorn material.

 

[vIRL Nightmare]

I don't believe it and they need to provide some more evidence than cough, cough, hearsay, hearsay for me to believe them. Why do I say that? Well, that's because if you consult this table: http://m.ign.com/wikis/xbox-one/PS4_vs._Xbox_One_Native_Resolutions_and_Framerates in particularly in the PS4 column you'll see that there are more games at 60 than 30. The Xbone has a very similar framerate ratio as the PS4 with only a few differences and most of the games at 30 FPS for both systems are also on the PS3 and 360. So whatever those "pressures" are it clearly isn't making a significant impact on what is being produced.

So my opinion basically comes down to, "Good job becoming closer to EA. I'm the furthest thing from proud of you Ubisoft."

Also just in case someone doesn't know the difference, Imgur has your back on knowledge, science, and "science": http://imgur.com/gallery/rNahC

 

[Rozalia1]

What do Escapists think?

Simple: burn the house down. Destroy the console market utterly.

And that's not hyperbole, I'm deadly serious here. I'm not just slightly annoyed by some journalists when it comes to gaming reporting, I'm fucking done with some of the firms in this industry and wants to see them bomb hard.

And what pray tell does Sony, Nintendo, or Microsoft have to do with the deeds of EA/Ubisoft/whoever? You may like to believe that there is some big shadow cabal that sits down everyday and discusses how best to hurt those pesky *snigger* rebels the PC gamers, but that doesn't happen. They have better things to do trust me so stop with the victimisation please.

Yeah we know its not, the link in the OP is littered with posts saying exactly what you are. Why are you getting so personally offended by gaming companies of all things?