UK Researcher Wants Parents Arrested for Buying Kids Violent Games

[Sizzle Montyjing]

Please tell me no one on that side of the pond takes this lunatic seriously.

I'm almost insulted at your post, of course we take him seriously as he brings up several very str- hahahahahahahaahahahaha god no.
I'm still a little insulted at you having to check whether anyone takes this prick seriously.
The government certainly won't, what with him going 'FILL THE PRISONS' and us having an over-crowded prisons problem.

 

[The_Waspman]

I would like it if retailers had the power to refuse a sale to a parent that they have reason to believe is buying a game for their under-age kid. (e.g. if the retailer saw one saying "Is this the one you wanted, Timmy?)

Prosecution is going a bit far, but if it gets 11-year-olds out of my CoD...

This. Just... This.

Back when I worked in the world of video game retail, we had it hammered into us that we couldn't sell games to kids, but it was perfectly ok to sell to parents, as long as we said 'This game has an age rating, the content may not be suitable for this mouthy little ****.' Which would of course get handwaved because 'its just a game, what does it matter? As long as it keeps him out of my hair so I dont have to make an effort to raise him, I'm fine with it.'

So yeah, give the retailers extra support to enforce this. Although, actually, being able to say 'if you buy this for your kid, you'll get a prison sentence.' still probably wont be very effective.

Why dont we just ban everything? Lets ban having kids. That'll solve all of these problems.

Captcha: global warming. Yes, even that one captcha, even that one.

 

[Reaper195]

He also points the finger at game developers for shying away from the responsibility of keeping kids from playing their products. He states that game makers are "absolved from the burden of responsibility" and instead defer to the state and regulator. He concludes that, as a result, more violent games are released into the market since companies are protected by the ratings framework.

So from what I can read here...it sounds like he thinks developers actually have any real power over how and where games are sold. I'm pretty sure id had no control whatsoever over the actual publication and selling of Rage, since they are only developers, while Bethesda were the publishers....

Also, that's like saying it's Einsteins' fault for the bomb being used to blow up Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Yeah, sure, he founded the formula and whatnot behind it, but then his research was used by the military to bomb two cities into dust. Damn Einstein for not having control over the people that used his research. Damn id for not having control over Bethesda. Damn people with no power for not having the power to control things which they CAN'T ACTUALLY FUCKING DO!




<>

Unless, I read that paragraph entirely wrong.

 

[ThunderCavalier]

I was GOING to support this guy as he was finally pointing the finger at the parents and pointing out how they were being irresponsible in determining whether their child was emotionally mature enough to handle violent media, but...

Yeah, thanks for getting to the point. You were supposed to stop on it, though, not use it as a stepping stone to jump into the Q Continuum.

 

[Pockydon]

fucking idiot...

 

[Pockydon]

no, just...no

 

[antipunt]

Hahah, look, another crazy American who...

....
WTF he's from the UK? D:

 

[DirtyJunkieScum]

Please tell me no one on that side of the pond takes this lunatic seriously.

Some random fucker no one's ever heard of, who happens to work at a university...what do you think?

This isn't even at the level of "some local MP spouts off on subject X" that everyone seems to think means that his words are suddenly UK law.

Also this doesn't contain the full article. He might just be giving his opinion on what would work or not for any desired outcome, nowhere does it say he wants parent prosecuted, merely that the current system does not keep games out of childrens hands and in order to do so they would need to target the parents that buy the game.

I would read his original article rather than some bullshit internet news page.

 

[Pockydon]

Different kids mature at very different rates, and my parents understand that. Whenever I told them that I wanted to buy a game they would, of course, look at the label, but they would also ask someone about the actual content to find out if they thought I could handle it. Parents who do this shouldn't be sent to jail, because the long term effects of that could be devastating to the child.

This douche clearly doesn't have kids, and he clearly doesn't understand the meaning of good/bad parenting.

 

[Iszfury]

So to prevent children from being potentially damaged (possible, but not certain or likely) by violent video games, they're going to jail parents? I think he might need to have a glance at all the research of how having a parent in jail may damage the development of a child and work out if it really is worth it.

Yea, I think a fine is sufficient here really.

I don't. Even a fine would be an extreme extension of indirect censorship and brutally invasive, if assessed closely. A law of the sort, sans immediate ramifications, would be almost impossible to codify, if only for the ridiculous responsibilities it would delegate to law enforcement and the retailer, both in terms of security and accountability. How would you define "possession" in scenarios where the parent owned the game, yet it was being unknowingly accessed by one of their children? Are we going to begin enforcing movies and books similarly, or violent art and media in general? What are they going to do with the copy? Confiscate and burn the fucking thing? Are we really so childish, so immature, and so morbidly overassured in the ability of the government to regulate our lives such as to incarcerate or fine parents for....
well...
Let's say this.
A child having his/her parents incarcerated for the rest of their lives isn't nearly as harrowing a sight AS TITTIES?


I'm fairly sure I was WELL under the PEGI/ESRB age limit for at least half of the games a played as a teen xD...and most of them actually enhanced my worldview, the most disgusting of all probably the moreso (The Witcher).

I lived in Switzerland for 2 years, and was born there as well. The youth culture, identity, and overall perception of sexuality and violence there are substantially more developed and grounded in reality and reasonability then the vast majority of the Western world. Ironically, it's for the very reason the US runs so pissively batshit over the direction of their children's lives, and their exposure to media. It's desensitization. It's absorption, and learning, and being provided the skills to cope. 'That's' parenting. Guiding your children into an unfamiliar and dangerous world, as opposed to acting like it doesn't exist. The fact that sexuality and violence have been largely relegated to taboo in the UK and US contributes more to the negative social climate than the "inappropriate" media in itself, as restriction basically confiscates an individual's ability to appreciate more mature media as more than a topical, bloody, wankfest. It encourages experimentation, and actually elevates the illicit activities portrayed by the given media above the thematic qualities of it in itself. I wonder when lobbyists will actually be able to conceive of mature media that allows us to express, understand, and explore a dangerous world as opposed to condoning it in itself. Isn't the the idea of art?

 

[Two-A]

Did I read the same article everyone else did?

This guy said "prosecute", not specifically "jail" or "arrest". Maybe he means like a fine? Who here has ever received a traffic ticket? Tada! You've been "prosecuted". This guy wants to make it illegal for parents to buy these games for their children, which is currently how many circumvent PEGI (and ESRB in the U.S.), but then the "parents" still turn around and run these ridiculous campaigns about the violent videogames that somehow got into their children's hands.

Isn't this suggestion the logical conclusion to the "blame the parents, not the game" mantra when the "games community" feels threatened by major media or legislation against violent videogames?

Personally, I'd rather government just stay out of everyone's business, but the dichotomy here confuses me.

You see, a system like this would not only persecute the lazy parents who unknowinly buy mature games for their children. But also the parents who, after informing themselves, decide that their kids are mature enough to play said game.

An awareness campaign would be much better in this case, a parents association would not be taken as seriously when they say this games are poisoning their children when there's a sign outside the retailer store saying that the M in the cover means that someone under 17 should not play this game

 

[Saulkar]

Ladies and gentleman!!! I bring you a total quack! Why allow your child to be damaged by the frequent exposure to violent media when you can simply jail yourself to ensure a childhood for your kids devoid of proper parental guidance and social, emotional development!!!

 

[MrMunchies]

Aaaand that's why you don't ask politicians and so-called "politics experts" what to do when it comes to Parental Responsibility, Media and Art. Return to your boring grey life, little man.

 

[Jack Rascal]

He also points the finger at game developers for shying away from the responsibility of keeping kids from playing their products. He states that game makers are "absolved from the burden of responsibility" and instead defer to the state and regulator. He concludes that, as a result, more violent games are released into the market since companies are protected by the ratings framework.

So from what I can read here...it sounds like he thinks developers actually have any real power over how and where games are sold. I'm pretty sure id had no control whatsoever over the actual publication and selling of Rage, since they are only developers, while Bethesda were the publishers....

Also, that's like saying it's Einsteins' fault for the bomb being used to blow up Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Yeah, sure, he founded the formula and whatnot behind it, but then his research was used by the military to bomb two cities into dust. Damn Einstein for not having control over the people that used his research. Damn id for not having control over Bethesda. Damn people with no power for not having the power to control things which they CAN'T ACTUALLY FUCKING DO!




<>

Unless, I read that paragraph entirely wrong.

I understood it the same as you.

If I just change a few words from that quote:

He also points the finger at breweries for shying away from the responsibility of keeping kids from drinking their products. He states that breweries are "absolved from the burden of responsibility" and instead defer to the state and regulator. He concludes that, as a result, more alcoholic drinks are released into the market since companies are protected by the ratings framework.

I think this is the same thing. What could brewers possibly do, if parents buy beer and their kids drink them at home?

 

[The Rogue Wolf]

I've been saying for years that parents should be held responsible for what their children do and see, but this is getting pretty beyond the pale. What we need is a societal change (being free to call out bad parents for the idiots they are), not a legal one.

 

[Erttheking]

I...I just...this is just a whole new level of what is even the fuck?!

 

[Mr Mystery Guest]

I worked for a video game supplier for years and we would always have kids come in with notes saying that it was "Okay for them to buy Manhunt". We thought that they wrote the notes themselves like you would to skip gym class, but no, angry parents would then come in absolutely furious that we made them get off their sofas and miss their daytime chat shows to come in and buy the replacement babysitter. I informed them that it was the law and would ask them if they thought it was alright if i sold them cigarettes or alcohol. They never said "no".

 

[Lugbzurg]

We have restrictions for films, pubs, and various other things. A similar system for videogames would be welcome. Yet, for some reason, it seems to be a lot more complicated.

I also see some of you people talking about how a nipple or a naked body is considered bad, yet a disembodied brain or an exploding body is perfectly ok, and wondering why this is the case. Well, sex and violence are two entirely different things. It's not the "maturity" level. It's the "content" area. You start seeing a lot of pornography and, no matter how much self-control you think you have, it will affect you in a very negative form. Yet, seeing tons and tons of violence will do nothing to you, unless you already have some sort of disorder, in which case it might do something.

I've killed so much in games like Half-Life: Source, [Prototype], Grand Theft Auto III, Shadow the Hedgehog, Halo: Combat Evolved, Doom, 007: NightFire, and so many other games, and it doesn't affect me one bit. Yet, if I were playing something like, say... a Duke Nukem game completely uncensored, I know the games' obvious sexual themes would affect me on a mental level. I wouldn't be able to get the images out of my mind, simply because I am human, just like the rest of you. Humans feel a much greater urge to sex than they do to violence. They are completely different things.

Whatever content games have, there really do need to start being more child blocks and greater awareness of the rating system for videogames, just like any other medium. A fine just might be the way to go. After all, anyone can be fined $1,000 for giving alcohol to minors for the first offense and $2,500 for each following offense. At least where I'm from, that's the case. Videogames could benefit from a similar system. Though, if it's a fine, it really shouldn't be as high as that of underaged drinking.

 

[Nuke_em_05]

Spoiler: snip

Did I read the same article everyone else did?

This guy said "prosecute", not specifically "jail" or "arrest". Maybe he means like a fine? Who here has ever received a traffic ticket? Tada! You've been "prosecuted". This guy wants to make it illegal for parents to buy these games for their children, which is currently how many circumvent PEGI (and ESRB in the U.S.), but then the "parents" still turn around and run these ridiculous campaigns about the violent videogames that somehow got into their children's hands.

Isn't this suggestion the logical conclusion to the "blame the parents, not the game" mantra when the "games community" feels threatened by major media or legislation against violent videogames?

Personally, I'd rather government just stay out of everyone's business, but the dichotomy here confuses me.

You see, a system like this would not only persecute the lazy parents who unknowinly buy mature games for their children. But also the parents who, after informing themselves, decide that their kids are mature enough to play said game.

An awareness campaign would be much better in this case, a parents association would not be taken as seriously when they say this games are poisoning their children when there's a sign outside the retailer store saying that the M in the cover means that someone under 17 should not play this game

I didn't say it was a good idea. Simply, it isn't as bad an idea as people seem to be making it out to be. As a matter-of-fact, it seems to be the exact same idea that this community rallies behind whenever parent's associations and the like lash out at "vidyagames". You are quite right, though; this, like any other hypothetical legislation, has the potential to be abused if you assume it is a simple law. Most laws, however, anywhere you are, end up with so many caveats and exceptions (like for your "responsible parent" scenario) that they prove largely ineffective or unenforceable once implemented.

The problem with "awareness campaigns" is that ignorant fools do not wish to make themselves "aware". The rating is on the box, most retailers card, ESRB posters are in most stores in the U.S., not sure about PEGI in the UK. Granted that anecdotal evidence isn't much to go on in official venues, but here goes: how many video game retail clerks can attest to warning a parent that a "Mature" game would not be appropriate for their child, only to have that parent scoff at them about "knowing what they're doing" only for the parent to return furious that the store allowed their child to play this "terrible" game? That is the kind of person we are up against in this situation.

Again, personally, I think the government should just stay out of everyone's business. I think the current systems are as good as we can get; developers and retailers follow ESRB/PEGI, those that don't tend not to last. "Responsible" parents follow the ratings, irresponsible parents don't and will continue to blame other people for their own failings.

 

[getoffmycloud]

I just love how everyone on this site say parents should be the ones responsible not the developers, publishers or retailers yet when someone comes out and says that everyone complains at him.

And the arresting part of it is only in the title and is never mentioned in the article, escapist should really change that.