UK Student Protests: Wheelchair-bound student dragged across the road by police officer, BBC defend

[emeraldrafael]

Eh. I (an american) lost sympathy for any of this after I saw them assaulting the royal family for no real reason. Besides, thats entirely situational, you odnt know if the kid in the wheelchair did anything.

Not that I support the royal family.

... Not that i hate the royal family.

... ... I just dont see the royal family's fault in this, so its pretty much attacking the innocent.

 

[TrollOgerElf]

i smell a martyr

 

[Erja_Perttu]

Thats pretty fucking bad... I mean, why not just push him wherever they wanted to take him in the wheelchair? Not like a guy with Cerebral Palsy is going to be able to do much to stop them.

Doesn't seem like he actually did anything bad anyway, from the video it looks like the guy at the start says "The guy in the wheelchair just gave a talk about the *something*". Didn't sound like he was trying to incite violence or was shouting abuse.

My question, while you make a very good point, is just how exactly police are supposed to handle these things well? Looking at past examples, I'm sure you can see that no one is ever happy.

1. If the police stand by and wait to react once things get out of hand, people whine that they could have prevented it.

2. If police prevent it by ordering the crowd to disperse, people complain that they're trampling on the rights of the people.

3. If the police order them to leave and the people refuse (It is a protest, after all), what then? If the make them leave, it's brutality. If they don't, it's an impotent police force.

4. If anyone is taping the incident, who do you think it's going to be? Protesters. Who else would be there, generally speaking? Cops and protesters. And cops might be recording, but they've got all kinds of policies and legalities and delays surrounding what footage they can and can't release, so they can't offer up a video defense in a timely manner... and when they can, it's dismissed as fake because they "should've released it sooner."

These sorts of things are always stacked exactly so that they're against the police, who are constantly in a defensive role even when trying to be proactive. I'm not saying the cop was right, though. I'm just saying we need to consider the possibility that what we're seeing is biased coverage of the situation.

I've got relatives in the police force, and this never changes. If you want to see how demonized the police are, read up on Battle of the Beanfields. It's ridiculous.

There isn't a right or wrong way (outside of lethal force) to police a protest when it turns violent and of course there are going to be mistakes. Think about it this way, people upholding the law make a bad judgement [presumably] concerning a wheelchair bound man (whom they do not know) and are caught on tape. Wanton criminality and property damage are going on around them for no other reason than some people like causing havoc you know who'll get the most bad press?

The police.

 

[Sam Ronin]

There is more to this story.

What was preventing the police moving the guy, chair and all? This brother? Who had been wheeling him around? And yes many people go to these things to cause trouble.

Those randomly attacking buildings and cars in Guy Fawlkes/V For Vendetta masks? They were not protesting, but out to wreck stuff. I have a huge amount of respect for those mounting a peaceful protest and wanting to get their voices heard.

Then you get the picture of a rock stars son stupidly high on LSD (his words afterward) swinging off the nations flag on a war memorial, admitting after he had no idea what it was...

Back on topic the pair of them in the first video are well away from anyone else in the middle of the street. Now if the brother is refusing to move the chair and the "cyber revolutionary" are out there refusing to move then the police will take steps to move them...
The wrong step it appears and far too forceful for what was needed.

Police dont seek to cause violence in that situation, thats a stupid arguement to make. Violence would just see them stuck there longer, with a ton of paperwork to complete after which keeps them off the street.

And dont go taking that interview at face value either... all those odd cuts and jumps are not your stream playing up. Its been hacked around with already.

At least i was glad to see the bit at the bottom saying that stupid Koran burning pastor wont be trying to enter Britain now...

I think the police took the wrong level of response to this incident, but there was something provoking it. And he can now blog about how eager to use force the police are and how government should be overthrown blah blah anarchist tripe blah...

 

[asinann]

He's lucky he wasn't in Portland, they would have very calmly walked over, put a gun to his face and shot him 18 times.

 

[jedizero]

I've got relatives in the police force, and this never changes. If you want to see how demonized the police are, read up on Battle of the Beanfields. It's ridiculous.

There isn't a right or wrong way (outside of lethal force) to police a protest when it turns violent and of course there are going to be mistakes. Think about it this way, people upholding the law make a bad judgement [presumably] concerning a wheelchair bound man (whom they do not know) and are caught on tape. Wanton criminality and property damage are going on around them for no other reason than some people like causing havoc you know who'll get the most bad press?

The police.

I'm not trying to demonize anyone, it just looks like he was treated far too harshly.

If the police *apologized*, or otherwise made a movement to say 'You're right, that was too much, we apologize.' Instead of simply clamming up and saying "Fuck you, we're right and you're wrong."

If mistakes are made, and people are willing to stand up and ADMIT THESE MISTAKES, apologize, and make things *better*, then I wouldn't be near as 'outraged', as I am now.

 

[C95J]

The worst part is that this happened to him twice. This was way out of line from the police officers, they should have dealt with the situation properly, there was no need for what they did, with the only reason being to induce violence.

 

[Grigori361]

Prove it. It's a one minute video, you have no proof as to what happened that caused the cop to act this way. For all we know, the cripple deserved it. He is a cop, if you can't trust him not to abuse cripples, how can you trust him to uphold justice and the law? Interesting philisophical question right there. Why do we allways assume the cop is at fault when one of these show's up, and not the other way around? My bet is on projection. We identify more with the non-cop, therefore we project ourselves onto the non-cop and think "I wouldn't have done anything wrong so it must be the cop's fault" sub-consciously at least. That's my two cents, not that I have any reasonable credentials for that to be taken as fact, but it IS my opinion.

That's a viable idea, however just witnessing the largest mass arrest of innocent bystanders in Canadian history, I'm inclined otherwise, I'm beginning to think of Canadian law enforcement on the same low level as that of the US.

 

[Siberian Relic]

SCUM, SCUM SCUM. Al the cops in that riot want to hurt people

Most cops here in the UK were school bullys and just want more power. Id kill every cop who hit me with a baton in an instant, god help the world if i get super powers.

And with that attitude, you think a cop's going to lace his fingers and smile pleasantly at you? What a headache of a citizen you are. After reading that, I'd side with a cop who might plant a fist in your mouth. Incidents aren't isolated situations, they're the end result of chain reactions, and those reactions always start with internalization. Attitude.

 

[Daffy F]

He has a disability, so instantly there has to be a controversy. How patronising. To be honest I don't even care.

Good call. To be honest, even if police sometimes over-react and are over-violent, what they did to him isn't going to cause any lasting damage... Not like the guy police officers assaulted at the G8 riot who died (He wasn't even taking part)

 

[Grigori361]

I've got relatives in the police force, and this never changes. If you want to see how demonized the police are, read up on Battle of the Beanfields. It's ridiculous.

There isn't a right or wrong way (outside of lethal force) to police a protest when it turns violent and of course there are going to be mistakes. Think about it this way, people upholding the law make a bad judgement [presumably] concerning a wheelchair bound man (whom they do not know) and are caught on tape. Wanton criminality and property damage are going on around them for no other reason than some people like causing havoc you know who'll get the most bad press?

The police.

I'm not trying to demonize anyone, it just looks like he was treated far too harshly.

If the police *apologized*, or otherwise made a movement to say 'You're right, that was too much, we apologize.' Instead of simply clamming up and saying "Fuck you, we're right and you're wrong."

If mistakes are made, and people are willing to stand up and ADMIT THESE MISTAKES, apologize, and make things *better*, then I wouldn't be near as 'outraged', as I am now.

I agree with No 2 here, I have friends in the police force, one of my best and oldest friends from high-school actually, (shit I'm getting old aren't I?) but how knowing or being related to people in the police force means that the police didn't do anything wrong without the need for debate seems ridiculous to me. Granted that you didn't say that, but it was implied, and if I'm incorrect please correct me.

Being allowed to carry weapons and the means to enforce laws in both a privilege and an honor, if someone can't measure up to what the rest of the civilian population holds as standards for those people then they must be removed, no ifs. We're allowing these people to run around the street with guns. I think people are more then within their rights to scrutinize anyone allowed that kind of power over others.

That said, that is just me.

 

[TheLaofKazi]

if the cops tell you to do something, do it, or else you'll have it done for you and you won't like it.

And is that morally right?

Doesn't matter whether it is morally right or wrong. It's the law.

So we should all bend over, accept, never question or do anything about it?

Why should we choose laws over morality?

 

[SinisterGehe]

If the person was demanded to leave from the area by the officer and if he did not obey the police officer was allowed to perform this act.
If find this sickening of course, but why it is always the polices fault? There is 1 minute video of him dragged off as an evidence. Is there evidence what he said? What he did? Why hes brother left him there? How was the police officer aware of he physical condition?

I think this is sickening behavior from both sides, there has no one with viable proof from anyone. One minute of video? Where the rest of the video? What happened earlier? Did the mob did anything to the police? Was the people asked to remove hes friend off the site by officers demand?

I think there this is pure student propaganda, is it always the government is wrong, eh?

To those people who want to quote me and start calling me asshole, answer to my questions...

What was he ding there? Why did hes brother leave him there? Where was hes brother? How could the police been aware of hes neurological condition? What happened before this incident? Wheres the rest of the proof that only police officers behaved wrong here?

(Answers that are the quality of "BECAUSE!11one" and "It the government, so they are always wrong" are not viable answers.

I will not choose my side here until I will be shown more evidence. I Have no sympathy for people who choose to attend violent protest, neither do I have sympathy for officers misbehavior.

 

[Defective_Detective]

The worst part is that this happened to him twice. This was way out of line from the police officers, they should have dealt with the situation properly, there was no need for what they did, with the only reason being to induce violence.

I already referred to the afternoon incident earlier in the thread. An amateur photographer had been observing McIntyre. He acted like a complete tit to the police officers who took great care to remove him and his chair from the path of a planned horse charge.

 

[Fledge]

FFFFFFFFFU----

 

[Delusibeta]

Welcome to life: it's not fair.

Yes, we all know that. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't identify the many problems and injustices in life and try to change them.

And, honestly, there's insufficient evidence to say that this is one of them. There are two sides to every story, and this thread is only focused on one of them.

 

[Defective_Detective]

if the cops tell you to do something, do it, or else you'll have it done for you and you won't like it.

And is that morally right?

Doesn't matter whether it is morally right or wrong. It's the law.

So we should all bend over, accept, never question or do anything about it?

Why should we choose laws over morality?

Certainly you should discuss the law, debate the law and question the morality. Campaign to change the law, which you can do in a democratic society. Until then, you obey it. That's the rule.

 

[SCAFC Chimp]

It is extremely hard to see what is happening in that video. I'm sure they officers wouldn't have just done it randomly; there has to have been a reason.

So... much... naivity - can't understand this blind faith in the status quo. "All police are nice guys who only use violence against violence" - wake up, Jesus -.-U

It's not that I'm naive; it's just that I can't fathom why anybody would do this if they did not have a very good reason to.

You seem to be under the impression that the police in Britain know what they are doing. This sort of stuff happens here a lot, such as the guy killed at the G20 riots because he walked past. They are more concerned with "non crimes" than stopping/ preventing real problems.

 

[Kortney]

Far too vague, the 'blame the cops' mentality is kind of lame when you don't have the full story guys. I'm going with neutral on this one, I don't know enough about the scenario to comment on it.

This times a billion.

No one here has any idea what happened before this clip was taken. It looks to me like the fella half fell off the wheelchair by the way - but it is really blurry. All the more reason not to make judgement here.

If you want to judge the character and actions of people you don't know - at least know the full story.