UK using tasers and "spit-hoods" on children as young as 11 and deliberately targeting black children in particular.

[Kae]

????!!

IDK if all the "thug" kids I met growing up in low income ghettos in a third world country just weren't all that tough, but this seems absurdly excessive, like obviously dismissing myself because even though I was a pickpocket I was also the shortest kid and was basically a twig, so pretty much anyone could restrain me with little trouble, but like even me weak as I was managed to win fights against the "tougher" kids sometimes, so IDK this sounds crazy to me, short of the kid being armed (Which in my experience it's common for like 15 year olds or older but not for 11 year olds) I can't really picture a reason to tase a kid, don't really understand how that can be justified, I'll also add that most kids in low income or poor neighborhoods definitely don't know martial arts, that's a suburbanite luxury, and let's face it, it's not suburbanites getting tased.

So unsurprisingly I'm on the fuck cops side.

 

[happyninja42]

Overwheming force is not inherently escalating, but it is designed to trigger the fight or flight response with the (obvious) preference being flight.

Yeah but see that's part of the issue. In that example, you've got what, a 50/50 chance of triggering the exact wrong response you want? Bum rushing someone to the point you make them panic, fear for their life, and decide they need to fight you tooth and nail, because you've triggered their lizard brain response "YOU ARE ABOUT TO DIE FIGHT WITH EVERYTHING YOU HAVE!" pretty much defeats the entire purpose of de-escalating. It's the exact opposite in fact. So I don't see that being a really good strategy, if the goal is to minimize harm to everyone involved, including the subject of interest. It just seems to have WAY too much inherent room for failure.

 

[Gordon_4]

Yeah but see that's part of the issue. In that example, you've got what, a 50/50 chance of triggering the exact wrong response you want? Bum rushing someone to the point you make them panic, fear for their life, and decide they need to fight you tooth and nail, because you've triggered their lizard brain response "YOU ARE ABOUT TO DIE FIGHT WITH EVERYTHING YOU HAVE!" pretty much defeats the entire purpose of de-escalating. It's the exact opposite in fact. So I don't see that being a really good strategy, if the goal is to minimize harm to everyone involved, including the subject of interest. It just seems to have WAY too much inherent room for failure.

Well, there are two outcomes, but that doesn’t mean the probability is a solid 50% each. I get what you’re saying overall though.

 

[happyninja42]

Well, there are two outcomes, but that doesn’t mean the probability is a solid 50% each. I get what you’re saying overall though.

Neither response is what you actually want when trying to subdue someone, so it's a bad plan all around I think.

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

Yeah but see that's part of the issue. In that example, you've got what, a 50/50 chance of triggering the exact wrong response you want? Bum rushing someone to the point you make them panic, fear for their life, and decide they need to fight you tooth and nail, because you've triggered their lizard brain response "YOU ARE ABOUT TO DIE FIGHT WITH EVERYTHING YOU HAVE!" pretty much defeats the entire purpose of de-escalating. It's the exact opposite in fact. So I don't see that being a really good strategy, if the goal is to minimize harm to everyone involved, including the subject of interest. It just seems to have WAY too much inherent room for failure.

Not to mention that triggering the flight response also isn't ideal since cops don't actually want to chase people running away and will sometimes just shoot them in the back to save themselves the trouble.

So triggering someone's fight or flight response is going to get that people hurt either way probably.

 

[Kae]

Not to mention that triggering the flight response also isn't ideal since cops don't actually want to chase people running away and will sometimes just shoot them in the back to save themselves the trouble.

So triggering someone's fight or flight response is going to get that people hurt either way probably.

I don't think UK cops carry guns, so it wouldn't be a factor in the UK.

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

I don't think UK cops carry guns, so it wouldn't be a factor in the UK.

Pretty sure the conversation I was responding to was about police training in general, not police training specifically in the UK.