UK's SOPA - the Digital Economy Act

[George Barrow]

Well fuck, if they are logging my internet then it is time to find the most disturbing shit on the internet and set up a laptop to search for it 24/7
teach them to take away my privacy bunch of stuck up tory scum

 

[Realitycrash]

I have an interesting question: How would YOU try to stop piracy, without infringing on privacy?
Piracy is obviously illegal, and while we don't want a big-brother state, how are we going to stop piracy without making it easier for the police to crack down on crime?
The only way I see piracy stopping is some sort of more effective digital tracking. Sadly.
I mean, take the original Humble Indie Bundle, you know, the one that you could play 0.01USD for?
25% still chose to pirate it. Shows that the problem isn't with the prices, but how comfortable people are getting away with an easy crime.
Maybe if they made the actual transaction easier (Paypal is a ***** for plenty of people living outside of the US), but I doubt it would solve the problem with regular-priced games.
Piracy is like shoplifting candy, really. It isn't considered that much of a crime, and so many do it simply because you can get away with it, even easier than shop-lifting.

So; If not SOPA or something similar, how would YOU stop piracy?

Edit: http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2010/05/humble-bundle-gives-pirates-what-they-want-gets-ripped-off.ars
Humble Bundle Pirated.

the transaction is easy, you dont need paypal, amazon payments works just as well. Anyone who pirates those bundles is scum. Just flat out.

Yes, yes, we all know. I don't want to start a flame-war, I just want to know what other solutions people think we have.
I'm not pro SOPA, or ACTA, but one have to ask oneself..How can we stop piracy if we can't make those that pirate feel unsafe? What kind of technological advancement can both stop piracy yet does not infringe on privacy?

well the way to stop piracy (which several hundred people WILL kick and scream about) is constant connection. Now the problem with this solution is the infrastructure isn't there yet. When it is this will be much less of an issue.

At least in my books. And fyi wasn't trying to start a flamewar ^^. Its just i have a dedicated hate for those people.

p.s OOOO new captcha I CAN READ IT im so happpy

Constant connection doesn't stop people pirating movies, music, books, etc. Unless you want to enable some sort of monitoring-device to constantly scan your computer.

 

[Realitycrash]

I have an interesting question: How would YOU try to stop piracy, without infringing on privacy?

Regulate online advertising. Penalise advertisers who allow there ads to appear next to content that infringes on creative rights. Not going to happen as Google don't like the idea of having to spend money regulating there cash cow that is adwords.

Beyond that digital piracy will always exist, people will pirate/crack content for the technical challenge before you even get into any other reasons. But if you remove the ability to cash in on it it may reign in some of the excesses.

Ah, now that's a good idea. Might be hard to regulate, being that some adds are hosted in different countries that have different laws etc, and thus they can stay online for a good while before being forced down, thus still generating enough sales, but it is still a good idea.

 

[Realitycrash]

I have an interesting question: How would YOU try to stop piracy, without infringing on privacy?
Piracy is obviously illegal, and while we don't want a big-brother state, how are we going to stop piracy without making it easier for the police to crack down on crime?
The only way I see piracy stopping is some sort of more effective digital tracking. Sadly.
I mean, take the original Humble Indie Bundle, you know, the one that you could play 0.01USD for?
25% still chose to pirate it. Shows that the problem isn't with the prices, but how comfortable people are getting away with an easy crime.
Maybe if they made the actual transaction easier (Paypal is a ***** for plenty of people living outside of the US), but I doubt it would solve the problem with regular-priced games.
Piracy is like shoplifting candy, really. It isn't considered that much of a crime, and so many do it simply because you can get away with it, even easier than shop-lifting.

So; If not SOPA or something similar, how would YOU stop piracy?

Edit: http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2010/05/humble-bundle-gives-pirates-what-they-want-gets-ripped-off.ars
Humble Bundle Pirated.

the transaction is easy, you dont need paypal, amazon payments works just as well. Anyone who pirates those bundles is scum. Just flat out.

Yes, yes, we all know. I don't want to start a flame-war, I just want to know what other solutions people think we have.
I'm not pro SOPA, or ACTA, but one have to ask oneself..How can we stop piracy if we can't make those that pirate feel unsafe? What kind of technological advancement can both stop piracy yet does not infringe on privacy?

well the way to stop piracy (which several hundred people WILL kick and scream about) is constant connection. Now the problem with this solution is the infrastructure isn't there yet. When it is this will be much less of an issue.

At least in my books. And fyi wasn't trying to start a flamewar ^^. Its just i have a dedicated hate for those people.

p.s OOOO new captcha I CAN READ IT im so happpy

Constant connection doesn't stop people pirating movies, music, books, etc. Unless you want to enable some sort of monitoring-device to constantly scan your computer.

In my eyes the software used to read such things will only work with software verified on the other end. Thats acceptable levels of connection to me. Ofcourse this means tying an account to your device, but i do that with steam, and do not have any trouble with that.

Sure the coding to make all media run through a gateway software as it were would be a bit of a pain. But again i see it as worth it (at least in the world with much better infrastructure).

I may be a dreamer but this path seems the best middle ground to me.

So that you can't watch a movie offline, or read a book offline, or listen to music offline?
Makes laptops rather shitty when traveling, sort of defeats the point it seems?

 

[Keava]

Yes, Gaiman did increase his booksales, I'v both read the article and watched the interview, but that's beside the point.
They (the industry) will never accept that you "can't fight it", and before the digital era, piracy was never this wide-spread in so many areas, going so far as to be considered something "everyone" does, or have done. Back in the days, not everyone had a bootleg music-tape. This is much, much bigger. And it's too much money, way more than before. Music, videos, games, books, you name it.
So sure, "don't fight it, try to create a better servicefor legal customers" is a solution, but it isn't going to ever be enough for the industry.
Got any other suggestions?

The industry will have to realize it however. Current model is not sustainable forever and the more they will push their vision the more they will loose. Between digital distribution, the explosion of indie scene and crowd-funding popularity the market will force them to change their approach.
It happened to other industries in past (mostly around the era of industrialization, where those that didn't adapt to changing times were pushed out of the market), and it may happen again. Yes, some studios or artists might be casualties in that struggle and that sucks, but tell me, why should i pay full price for products that in my eyes don't deserve it?

These days I have choice. I can wait for discounts/promotions, I can buy equally if not more enjoyable indie titles at much lower price, I have more tools to spend my money in the way I feel benefits me most.
If You look at the raw numbers the supposedly hurting PC market is actually growing every year, with ~35% increase by 2015 and "alterantive" business models contribute a lot to that.

 

[Realitycrash]

Yes, Gaiman did increase his booksales, I'v both read the article and watched the interview, but that's beside the point.
They (the industry) will never accept that you "can't fight it", and before the digital era, piracy was never this wide-spread in so many areas, going so far as to be considered something "everyone" does, or have done. Back in the days, not everyone had a bootleg music-tape. This is much, much bigger. And it's too much money, way more than before. Music, videos, games, books, you name it.
So sure, "don't fight it, try to create a better servicefor legal customers" is a solution, but it isn't going to ever be enough for the industry.
Got any other suggestions?

The industry will have to realize it however. Current model is not sustainable forever and the more they will push their vision the more they will loose. Between digital distribution, the explosion of indie scene and crowd-funding popularity the market will force them to change their approach.
It happened to other industries in past (mostly around the era of industrialization, where those that didn't adapt to changing times were pushed out of the market), and it may happen again. Yes, some studios or artists might be casualties in that struggle and that sucks, but tell me, why should i pay full price for products that in my eyes don't deserve it?

These days I have choice. I can wait for discounts/promotions, I can buy equally if not more enjoyable indie titles at much lower price, I have more tools to spend my money in the way I feel benefits me most.
If You look at the raw numbers the supposedly hurting PC market is actually growing every year, with ~35% increase by 2015 and "alterantive" business models contribute a lot to that.

They might have to realize it. They might have to change their entire perspective. I honestly don't care if the entire industry crashes and burns, and we all have to start from the ground, just as long as the ground we start from is a fresh perspective and works with a global information age.
But, more likely, they will use their money and influence to get some kind of SOPA through. After awhile, people will get tired of protesting, and something will pass. Therefor, I asked for suggestions that might be better than nothing at all.

 

[Naeras]

So; If not SOPA or something similar, how would YOU stop piracy?

You can't stop piracy. You can mitigate the effects of it, but you can't stop it. Stuff like this won't help.
It's sad, but it's really that simple =/

 

[Realitycrash]

I have an interesting question: How would YOU try to stop piracy, without infringing on privacy?
Piracy is obviously illegal, and while we don't want a big-brother state, how are we going to stop piracy without making it easier for the police to crack down on crime?
The only way I see piracy stopping is some sort of more effective digital tracking. Sadly.
I mean, take the original Humble Indie Bundle, you know, the one that you could play 0.01USD for?
25% still chose to pirate it. Shows that the problem isn't with the prices, but how comfortable people are getting away with an easy crime.
Maybe if they made the actual transaction easier (Paypal is a ***** for plenty of people living outside of the US), but I doubt it would solve the problem with regular-priced games.
Piracy is like shoplifting candy, really. It isn't considered that much of a crime, and so many do it simply because you can get away with it, even easier than shop-lifting.

So; If not SOPA or something similar, how would YOU stop piracy?

Edit: http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2010/05/humble-bundle-gives-pirates-what-they-want-gets-ripped-off.ars
Humble Bundle Pirated.

the transaction is easy, you dont need paypal, amazon payments works just as well. Anyone who pirates those bundles is scum. Just flat out.

Yes, yes, we all know. I don't want to start a flame-war, I just want to know what other solutions people think we have.
I'm not pro SOPA, or ACTA, but one have to ask oneself..How can we stop piracy if we can't make those that pirate feel unsafe? What kind of technological advancement can both stop piracy yet does not infringe on privacy?

well the way to stop piracy (which several hundred people WILL kick and scream about) is constant connection. Now the problem with this solution is the infrastructure isn't there yet. When it is this will be much less of an issue.

At least in my books. And fyi wasn't trying to start a flamewar ^^. Its just i have a dedicated hate for those people.

p.s OOOO new captcha I CAN READ IT im so happpy

Constant connection doesn't stop people pirating movies, music, books, etc. Unless you want to enable some sort of monitoring-device to constantly scan your computer.

In my eyes the software used to read such things will only work with software verified on the other end. Thats acceptable levels of connection to me. Ofcourse this means tying an account to your device, but i do that with steam, and do not have any trouble with that.

Sure the coding to make all media run through a gateway software as it were would be a bit of a pain. But again i see it as worth it (at least in the world with much better infrastructure).

I may be a dreamer but this path seems the best middle ground to me.

So that you can't watch a movie offline, or read a book offline, or listen to music offline?
Makes laptops rather shitty when traveling, sort of defeats the point it seems?

I dont know about constant connection, just enough to boot the thing would be what i would choose personally. But even if it were constant connection, we are near that point. I can watch a full divx quality film streamed to my phone just over the phone network no wifi or anything. We are getting closer to constant connectivity anyway (next big step is to drop bandwidth prices xD). As i said in my original post, this isnt a viable solution yet because of infrastructure, but i do see it becoming one. In the same way that buying and downloading things weren't really viable till the technology reached the right point, and when it does.

Or at least i hope when it does, it will be mostly seamless transition.

So you can't boot something up while on the go either? Once again; Kinda screws with your laptop.
But sure, the infrastructure might develop, but what stops people from cracking the DRM? As they already do?

 

[Realitycrash]

So; If not SOPA or something similar, how would YOU stop piracy?

You can't stop piracy. You can mitigate the effects of it, but you can't stop it. Stuff like this won't help.
It's sad, but it's really that simple =/

Yes, and how would you mitigate the effects in a way that doesn't infringe on privacy?

 

[Mayhemski]

Always on has the same drawbacks as all cloud-esque solutions - conection goes down you're plain out of luck both as a consumer and a distributor. Consumer can't consume, distributor can't distribute coupled with bad PR.

The infrastructure just isn't there currently and probably won't be for at least another decade at the very earliest. Overcoming ISP's attempts to scupper wi-max services to protect there cable offerings is going to take a long time to overcome. Virgin in the UK only just turned a profit this year,having had to fork out stupid money to fund the laying of the cable network (previously NTL/Telewest and some others I forget before that) I say this as I think wi-max is probably the only practical solution, cable laying is expensive to both do and then maintain. Wi-Fi services at least cut out a lot of the cabling issues.

That's why I'd suggest going after the advertising revenue (still the best way to earn money on the internet). Remove the financial benefits will put a crimp on some of the more wide spread aspects of piracy. But Realitycheck you're correct the legislation for that would be horrific and hard to get sign off for (look at the furore over the renewel of ACTA what should of been a pretty simple treaty to get signed).

I still remember being shocked at the numbers the pirate bay founders where accused of having earnt from the site through online advertising.

 

[Naeras]

So; If not SOPA or something similar, how would YOU stop piracy?

You can't stop piracy. You can mitigate the effects of it, but you can't stop it. Stuff like this won't help.
It's sad, but it's really that simple =/

Yes, and how would you mitigate the effects in a way that doesn't infringe on privacy?

By providing a good service. Trying to actively stop people won't help, and anyone who claims so are honestly greatly underestimating how far some people are willing to go to not have to pay for a product. >_<

 

[Realitycrash]

So; If not SOPA or something similar, how would YOU stop piracy?

You can't stop piracy. You can mitigate the effects of it, but you can't stop it. Stuff like this won't help.
It's sad, but it's really that simple =/

Yes, and how would you mitigate the effects in a way that doesn't infringe on privacy?

By providing a good service. Trying to actively stop people won't help, and anyone who claims so are honestly greatly underestimating how far some people are willing to go to not have to pay for a product. >_<

So pretty much what we have going today, minus the DRM-crap and some high prices?
Since I showed that people (25%) would rather pirate than pay 1 cent, I don't think this mitigating will be enough.

 

[Richardplex]

I have an interesting question: How would YOU try to stop piracy, without infringing on privacy?
Piracy is obviously illegal, and while we don't want a big-brother state, how are we going to stop piracy without making it easier for the police to crack down on crime?
The only way I see piracy stopping is some sort of more effective digital tracking. Sadly.
I mean, take the original Humble Indie Bundle, you know, the one that you could play 0.01USD for?
25% still chose to pirate it. Shows that the problem isn't with the prices, but how comfortable people are getting away with an easy crime.
Maybe if they made the actual transaction easier (Paypal is a ***** for plenty of people living outside of the US), but I doubt it would solve the problem with regular-priced games.
Piracy is like shoplifting candy, really. It isn't considered that much of a crime, and so many do it simply because you can get away with it, even easier than shop-lifting.

So; If not SOPA or something similar, how would YOU stop piracy?

Edit: http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2010/05/humble-bundle-gives-pirates-what-they-want-gets-ripped-off.ars
Humble Bundle Pirated.

You can't. You never will. No matter how many restrictive laws You come up with there will be always someone who will get the copyrighted product illegally, through internet or thanks to DVD burners - doesn't matter. Piracy existed long before people had broadband internet and will continue to exist.

What an artist/developer/publisher can do however is first - stop punishing those who buy things legally in the first place. That's no way to fight piracy, if anything that makes people want to pirate more, just to "stick it to the man".
Second thing is - provide proper service for your legal consumers. Release quality products at prices matching said quality. Give your consumers options to actually check your product before they buy it, don't hide behind excuses.
Why you think iTunes became so popular? Why Steam became so popular? They made things less restrictive, allowed for a lot of convenience and gave much more flexibility to individual content creators.

Some people will never pay for music/games/movies. They still won't pay even if you make piracy impossible with a magic spell. All studies, researches and surveys show that while there is huge % of people who use internet that download things illegally, same time on average, the same group spends way more on books/music/movies/games than those who do not use internet.

Further more there has been several examples of artists increasing their income by sharing parts of their work on the internet. Neil Gaiman noticed that after putting out his book for free on the net, the sales of his all books went up by 300% the following month. Since then he had pretty straight forward stance on it - > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Qkyt1wXNlI

Yes, Gaiman did increase his booksales, I'v both read the article and watched the interview, but that's beside the point.
They (the industry) will never accept that you "can't fight it", and before the digital era, piracy was never this wide-spread in so many areas, going so far as to be considered something "everyone" does, or have done. Back in the days, not everyone had a bootleg music-tape. This is much, much bigger. And it's too much money, way more than before. Music, videos, games, books, you name it.
So sure, "don't fight it, try to create a better servicefor legal customers" is a solution, but it isn't going to ever be enough for the industry.
Got any other suggestions?

Gabe was told that Steam in Russia would never work because of how prevalent piracy is there, and told him to drop the idea. He did it anyway, and Word of God says that it's incredibly successful over there due to the convenience of steam. There will always be pricks who pirate because they can, but the most efficient method is to get rid of the pirates who pirate because of convenience. It's more effective than these heavy handed methods, thus better for the industry. When it's just the pirates who pirate because they don't want to pay, then maybe these heavy handed methods might be justified. Until then though, better business strategy to focus on convenience, and it would reveal whether the monetary gain is worth going after those left afterwards.

Edit: I've normally avoided commenting on Captcha in my posts, but... I could read it. It was so beautiful...

 

[Naeras]

So pretty much what we have going today, minus the DRM-crap and some high prices?
Since I showed that people (25%) would rather pirate than pay 1 cent, I don't think this mitigating will be enough.

Yeah, and those people are assholes. But those same people will still find a way to get around any kind of privacy-intruding legislation.

On the flipside, just look at what happened to the piracy rates in Russia when Steam was introduced there [http://www.pcgamer.com/2011/10/25/gabe-newell-on-piracy-and-steams-success-in-russia/].

 

[Mr Jack]

You cannot, using any reasonable measures, eliminate piracy, just as it is impossible to eliminate theft. You can increase sales by making it as easy as possible for people to pay for what you are selling.

Piracy is a service problem. Most people are willing to pay a reasonable price for something they want. Make it easy enough for them to give you the money, and they shall. Publishers seem to believe that if they make it more difficult to buy the legitimate product, more people will buy it. Some people will never pay money for the product, so why bother making it harder for them to pirate? What do you gain?

Someone mentioned shops tolerating people stealing sweets. Shops accept an amount of theft as overhead, because it is not worth their time and money to stop it. They could install cameras to watch all the isles, and search everyone who goes into or out of the shop, and they would reduce the amount of sweets stolen. They would also drive many customers away, losing more money than they saved.

 

[Realitycrash]

So pretty much what we have going today, minus the DRM-crap and some high prices?
Since I showed that people (25%) would rather pirate than pay 1 cent, I don't think this mitigating will be enough.

Yeah, and those people are assholes. But those same people will still find a way to get around any kind of privacy-intruding legislation.

On the flipside, just look at what happened to the piracy rates in Russia when Steam was introduced there [http://www.pcgamer.com/2011/10/25/gabe-newell-on-piracy-and-steams-success-in-russia/].

Yeah, pretty sure that Steam kicks piracys ass, but how likely are the industry to settle for such a thing, when plenty of pirates are afoot still? And Steam only covers games. Music/Movies/Books?

 

[Shivarage]

Maybe charge your customers reasonable prices?

thats just vague nonsense, reasonable prices varies from one person to the next, for example i will feel ripped off buying jeans over forty quid, whereas i know people who will happily pay hundreds for the very same thing.

So your vague AHA answer doesn't really help anybody.

It's a tad difficult to download jeans, I was thinking of pirating pizza next week too