Uncharted: The Lost Legacy launch trailer

[stroopwafel]

Looks very pretty. But other than that really don't like Uncharted. It's like the videogame equivalent of a boring summer blockbuster that plays itself. All looks and no taste. That and Nathan Drake really gets on my tits. Maybe he's not in this game but the other characters look just as annoying.

 

[stroopwafel]

Played a bit more of Vanquish. Whenever I play this, I get sick of it a few minutes later. Everything about it is bland. It doesn't even have satisfying gun sound effects. They sound flat.

I found the gameplay of that game really tight. A neat spin on the cover shooter that allowed you to play it differently thanks to the rocket slide that blended satisfyingly into the slow-mo mechanic. Environments look indeed a bit bland and low detail but that is every Platinum game considering their sole focus is performance. Mikami has made better games for sure but atleast he once again tried to do something new here. I haven't played it since it was released in like 2010 or something so no idea how it holds up today.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

]No. Max Payne 3 is aim and shoot and move according to the situation and slow mo and shoot dodge and switch shoulders and dodge roll. Recoil also plays a small roll. The game is simple, but KISS (keep it simple, stupid). Vanquish has boringly weightless controls, uninteresting environments, upgrades and too many soldiers on your side for it to ever be exciting. They probably could have written a better story if it weren't about a generic marine accompanied by other generic soldiers. MP3 also has more challenge modes that keep me playing and a multiplayer mode that I recently discovered is surprisingly entertaining. Uncharted at least kept me interested throughout, whereas I keep stopping Vanquish because it's so dull, with such a generic story and poor characters.

Cover swapping? Do you mean moving from cover to cover like in Splinter Cell: Blacklist? I find that pretty boring. I never played more than one level of Blacklist, mostly because I didn't like the controls at all. Max Payne's cover system is fine.

What shooter isn't move according to the situation and switch shoulders? The dodge roll is useless in MP3. MP3 has mechanical as hell controls, nothing is smooth. The only fun thing to do in MP3 is the shoot-dodge. MP3 has the blandest story probably ever for a shooter and the worst part is it takes itself so seriously, it thinks its good. Whereas Vanquish has characters having a gravelly voice competition and the most hilarious "reverse the polarity" moment I've ever seen in anything. It's not on par with Bayonetta's fun and cheese but it's decent fun, basically a sci-fi Red Dawn. I played levels in Blacklist literally only using the cover swap for movement. MP3's cover system is pointless, so is Uncharted too. There's a reason there's several videos on Youtube analyzing Vanquish's gameplay and I don't think any for MP3.

 

[hanselthecaretaker]

Ha, I was googling Vanquish vs Max Payne 3 gameplay and this thread [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/663.952546-Vanquish-impressions-Max-Payne-3-Third-person-shooter-mechanics] showed up.

I still have yet to try either, but chances are I'll enjoy MP3 more for a variety of reasons. I also really like how the new aiming mechanics work, which alone should indicate that while the game has cover it isn't meant to be played as strictly a cover-based TPS.


*Edit* HOT DAMN the gaming gods have answered my plea. Max Payne 3 is having a special promotion 70% off thru tomorrow on Steam; exactly the kind of deal I've been recently hoping for to finally play this.

http://store.steampowered.com/app/204100/Max_Payne_3/

Question: is the "Complete" version just multiplayer add-on's or would any of it still be relevant to single player? I wouldn't mind trying MP but doubt the community's still robust on this one.

 

[hanselthecaretaker]

^ But do you know if these extras are all MP only -

Buy Max Payne 3 Complete
Includes 11 items: Max Payne 3, Max Payne 3: Deathmatch Made In Heaven Pack, Max Payne 3: Painful Memories Pack, Max Payne 3: Hostage Negotiation Pack, Max Payne 3: Local Justice Pack, Max Payne 3: Silent Killer Loadout Pack, Max Payne 3: Cemetery Map, Max Payne 3: Special Edition Pack, Max Payne 3: Deadly Force Burst, Max Payne 3: Pill Bottle Item, Max Payne 3: Classic Max Payne Character


I suppose it's only an extra $3 and I like the series enough to wing it if so.

 

[hanselthecaretaker]

^ But do you know if these extras are all MP only -

Buy Max Payne 3 Complete
Includes 11 items: Max Payne 3, Max Payne 3: Deathmatch Made In Heaven Pack, Max Payne 3: Painful Memories Pack, Max Payne 3: Hostage Negotiation Pack, Max Payne 3: Local Justice Pack, Max Payne 3: Silent Killer Loadout Pack, Max Payne 3: Cemetery Map, Max Payne 3: Special Edition Pack, Max Payne 3: Deadly Force Burst, Max Payne 3: Pill Bottle Item, Max Payne 3: Classic Max Payne Character


I suppose it's only an extra $3 and I like the series enough to wing it if so.

Almost all the DLC is for multiplayer. The Classic Max Payne Character DLC isn't, but it's just a skin.


I wrote a bad little review for Deathmatch Made in Heaven.

The Dead Men Walking coop mode included with this DLC crashes as soon as it's started. The only way to play it is to launch it through "Private Match." The Tiete River Docks map works, but the Hoboken map crashes, You can't unlock the achievement "Breaking and Entering" in Private Match. The game also crashes immediately after the match is over, so your score isn't saved. I can't recommend this now broken DLC.

This DLC does have the single player "Challenge Mode," which I'm actually getting the last few platinum medals in now. It's not too bad, but I preferred the New York Minute modes that came already included.

I wouldn't recommend the DLC, mostly because people don't play this game long enough to use it all.

Thanks. It sounds like Rockstar kinda dropped the ball with the PC release of all this. Will probably pass on it and look for the skin separately if it's nice enough.

 

[hanselthecaretaker]

^ He has also never missed an opportunity to gripe about Souls games being bad on here, yet there is literally no end to commentary of all kinds for that series. It was a pretty baseless comment to make in the first place.

 

[Casual Shinji]

I forgot how unrealistic the interactions can be in Uncharted.

https://youtu.be/JCQQhitgle8?t=22m46s

The enemy warps a few meters to the left so that she can perform her takedown. Games give you too many easy stealth options now. It's become so easy to silently take enemies down, no matter if the animations will work.

The next enemy goes inside an object, so that she can again perform her stealth takedown: https://youtu.be/JCQQhitgle8?t=23m25s

And then the next enemy has an opportunity to scream for help. His throat and mouth are free as he struggles: https://youtu.be/JCQQhitgle8?t=24m18s

It would be nice if the gameplay mirrored the characters' attributes. As a rather slender woman, she shouldn't be able to overpower all these big men. I can picture Nadine doing that again and again, but not Chloe. When Rocksteady brought Catwoman to their Arkham games, they made her attacks more light. She spins, flips and uses her legs a lot because she is not the puncher that Batman is. In fact, she uses her claws more than her fists.

Here it happens again: https://youtu.be/JCQQhitgle8?t=27m7s

How about, if you miss the second to pull him off the train car, your next option is to get on top and follow him? Throwing a guy off a train car wouldn't keep you unseen anyway.

I feel elitist saying this, but looking back, Uncharted is so casual. Really simplified stealth and unlimited health. Still, I'm not gonna deny that it's somewhat entertaining.

The Lost Legacy doesn't have as much polish as the previous games, being a spin-off/DLC deal and all. It was also made in about a year. This is why Chloe has a lot of Drake's moves instead of customized ones, which is usually a staple in Naughty Dog games. The faces also lack the high level of detail and animation quality of 4. And there's an action sequence similar to the jeep chase in 4, but a lot less refined. Showing how much time and effort Naughty Dog usually takes in making these sequences entertaining, overseeable, and not overbearing.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

Snip

I just remembered that the world record commentary also provides good analytical bits.


So yeah, your claim that there are no videos analyzing Max Payne 3 and the game therefore being bad is just plain wrong.

The guy doesn't even use the roll at all besides for saving time between gunfights, the roll is useless same with the cover system. At least Bayo and Vanquish have SKIPPABLE cutscenes whereas Dan Houser is so pretentious he doesn't even allow you to skip his drivel. I'll take an unskippable cutscene that's just a still image with a track from Bayo's soundtrack playing than any of the godawful cutscenes from MP3. I don't even look for videos on specific games, I just watch general gaming vids like Super BunnyHop, Errant Signal, Game Maker's Toolkit, etc. The fact that I've never seen a MP3 video while I see Vanquish pop up quite a bit like in the video about cover systems (that just popped up on my feed a few days back) says a lot when MP3 sold far better than Vanquish. There's just nothing unique or special that MP3 accomplished. Also, that speedrun video also demonstrates that MP3 has the same issue as the first Uncharted where pistols are as good if not better than ARs for some reason, the guy literally states that he only carries a AR in case he runs out of pistol ammo, that's literally the only time I used ARs in the 1st Uncharted was when I ran out of pistol ammo. ARs should be better than pistols in any competent shooter.

Lastly, look at how much more fun Vanquish looks when someone is just going for a speed challenge, which normally isn't that fun to watch for most games.

^ He has also never missed an opportunity to gripe about Souls games being bad on here, yet there is literally no end to commentary of all kinds for that series. It was a pretty baseless comment to make in the first place.

I don't think the Souls games are bad, it's just the combat is overly basic, simple, and repetitive. I love the level design and atmosphere. Maybe you can find a post where I say the Souls games sucked or something but that was probably on a bad day or due to the fact that people actually think they are legitimately hard games for some reason. I just hate feeling like I'm wasting my time doing busywork in any game whether it's fighting trash mobs in a Souls game or doing inventory management in an RPG that shouldn't be there. I even made a thread [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.945997-The-Souls-series-does-inventory-management-brilliantly-by-RPG-discussion-as-well] about how Souls does inventory management brilliantly.

Also, I'm not on an island all by myself as multiple people here did loathe [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/663.996753-How-did-you-play-Max-Payne-3-and-how-did-you-like-it?page=1] MP3. But I'm not trying to say don't buy the game and get Vanquish, try it if you think you'll like it.

I feel elitist saying this, but looking back, Uncharted is so casual. Really simplified stealth and unlimited health. Still, I'm not gonna deny that it's somewhat entertaining.

Uncharted, much like God of War, needs everything to be firing on all cylinders because the core gameplay can't carry the game on its own. God of War is a casual spectacle fighter and Uncharted is a casual TPS. Uncharted 2 delivers with the most enjoyable romp (story & characters), the best level design with the most variety (making the gameplay seem as fresh as it can for as long as it can), and the set-pieces were of course the best.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

https://youtu.be/1GYpUYJStD0?t=57m33s

Everybody else waits for Passos to give cover fire, but this guy just went in and rolled to safety with the risk of instant death. He usually doesn't use the roll because he's fast enough that he doesn't need it and remembers all the enemy positions.

The cover system isn't useless either.

So he used the roll for one section in the whole game? Both the roll and cover system could've been replaced with other mechanics that would actually have more usefulness.

I'd rather take a good, unskippable cutscene over a mediocre, boring, poorly written, cheesy, long, skippable one.

And how many games actually have that? Very few. I'd rather have cheese than seriousness that can't be pulled off. I'll take Bayo/Vanquish/Lollipop Chainsaw over a game trying to be serious and failing. Also, there's no reason to have an unskippable cutscene no matter how legitimately good the actual scene is because on multiple playthroughs, it just becomes annoying like how more time in the MP3 speedrun is cutscene vs actual gameplay.

The fact that the one YouTuber you posted here doesn't understand Max Payne 3 says just as much.Max Payne 3 did very well among professional reviewers, and even the Steam reviews are 18,064 positives and 3,593 negatives. It would be higher if people stopped playing it like a cover shooter and dying, and didn't pick it up expecting Max Payne 2. Every other negative Steam review mentions the previous games.

I've never understood the hard-on people have for PG. Must be because they're Japanese and flashy.

Even the video you linked to (the retrospective), the guy says MP3 was pretty hated saying it seemed like it was only liked around a 20/80 split. PG makes games with depth, there's loads of depth under that flash. Even God Hand was featured in TotalBiscuit's "This is why we can't have nice things" series.

Why? Were Hard Boiled, A Better Tomorrow and The Killer (films that inspired this series) bad because Chow Yun Fat didn't use two-handed guns in every scene? I don't want the usual terrible pistol accuracy in a stylish shoot 'em up like Max Payne. If I see my dot turn red, I want my bullet to hit.

Really, comparing a movie to a game? ARs should be better guns because they are better guns. You don't need bullet deviation to make pistols worse than ARs. Pistols just simply do less damage. Every weapon in any game should be viable and have its pros and cons.

Meh. It looked okay. The slide is silly. I'm never gonna get to that level of skill anyway, because the game just isn't interesting enough to stick with for that long. On a related note, I uninstalled Metal Gear Rising again, because I honestly don't know how I'm supposed to play that game. I got through Normal mode okay, but fighting the president as Sam is too complicated. I just never feel in tune with the game, like you with Max Payne 3. (You said something like that in another thread.) Bayonetta was better, but I'm not a fan of that either. Devil May Cry 3 is still my favorite of the genre and the only one I'd rate 4/5.

The reason Vanquish is so good is because when you watch a video of high-level play, it's just not that guy has really great aim like the MP3 speedrun. There's more going on than just aim and shoot. You're pretty hypocritical is saying you don't like Metal Gear Rising because you didn't know how you're supposed to play yet complain that people don't like MP3 because they don't know how to play. I fully understand how to play MP3, it just sucked IMO. Yeah, the controls don't feel quite right on a controller, but if the controls were perfect, I still wouldn't have liked the game much. Playing on Hard was a mistake as well.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

Jesus Christ... If the dodge roll can be used there to avoid gunfire, it can be used anywhere. The sniper's bullets should have hit him.

The roll is basically useless, nobody uses it, plus you have to double-tap the button to roll along with their being a bit a lag to Max actually rolling. The fact that he had to use it in bullet-time for it to "work" says a lot.

Max Payne 3 has better writing and a better told story than Vanquish, Metal Gear Rising and Bayonetta. I like cheese if it's well done. RoboCop and Total Recall are good cheese.

Ha, I don't think any game has a worse story than MP3. I'd rather watch an Asylum movie.

You still haven't explained how the cover system is useless. It puts you lower than the crouch, can be used to blind-fire, eliminates the possibility of unintentionally exposing yourself or overstepping from cover, and can be used to pull against a near wall quicker than running. The speedrunner himself uses cover a lot more in the second half of New York Minute Hardcore. I don't mean the parts that force you to use it. Still, he barely relies on it because it's a speedrun and the risk is worth the reward.

We've gotten to the point where cover should be a mechanic that entails more than just sticking to a wall. Perhaps, if the crouch button actually worked, there wouldn't be a need for a cover button.

How is it hypocritical if Max Payne 3 kept me interested long enough to learn it, to become less afraid to expose myself and stop using cover so much? Vanquish ISN'T interesting enough. It's thoroughly bland. I can only manage two or three areas at a time now. The levels are bland, the music is bland, the sound effects are bland, the art is bland, the people are bland, the animations are weightless, the slide is dumb, it has upgrades and the storytelling is utter shit.

You gave up on a game because you didn't know how to play it (blaming the game for it) yet criticize others for giving up on MP3 because they didn't know how to play it. Is it then not MP3's fault for people playing it wrong? Much of Vanquish's enjoyment, much like Dishonored actually, is based on how creative the player is. I play shooters backwards of you, I run around in the open as much as possible to see how much I can get away with then use cover if needed vs using cover then trying to use less of it. Vanquish probably lets you stay in the open more than any other shooter.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

plus you have to double-tap the button to roll

A lie.

along with their being a bit a lag to Max actually rolling.

A lie.

https://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/958970-max-payne-3/62849752

I use crouch all the time now. It works.

https://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/958969-max-payne-3/62850378
https://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/958970-max-payne-3/62845396
https://steamcommunity.com/app/204100/discussions/0/624076027479940242/

Vanquish is dull.

Anyway, what I like about Max Payne 3 is that I can run and gun, that I'm not forced to look over the shoulder with slow movement all the time, combined with the weight and physics, the sound and attention to detail, but you wouldn't even acknowledge that in previous conversations, so I don't know why I'm even talking to you. You're the most hardheaded person on GT. We've made no more progress than in the other, almost identical discussion.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/663.952546-Vanquish-impressions-Max-Payne-3-Third-person-shooter-mechanics

You said how you were not alone in hating Max Payne 3 and then brought up my thread. Well, plenty of people in the Vanquish thread didn't like Vanquish.

And it just occurred to me as I'm playing more Vanquish... At least Max Payne 3 didn't slow you down with freaking auto-heal.

MP3 is literally the worst game I've ever played, obviously IMO. What do you want me to say that is positive about the game? There isn't much obviously if it's the worst game I ever played. I guess the one thing MP3 does is allowing a run and shoot, but that's really it. You say Vanquish's slide is silly, MP3's roll is silly and completely detached from the weight of Max's other animations. I only went through the 1st page of the Vanquish thread there, but nobody flat out hated Vanquish in that thread while at least 2 other people (besides me) HATED MP3. Don't you think MP3 does things that make people have such extreme reactions to the game?

Really? You're going to criticize Vanquish for the auto slow-mo on low health when MP3's last stand mode is the worst. When I figured out how the health/painkiller system all worked, I started using painkillers to refill my health at about a 3rd of Max's body being red because last stand mode just wastes precious painkillers. Not saying Vanquish's system is perfect or can't be criticized but MP3's last stand is the worst.