I was about to switch to another thread, but then I ran into posts back-to-back using lines of reasoning that annoy the crap out of me.
To the authors of these posts, I apologize for singling you out. This isn't personal, and it isn't so much about your opinions themselves or the content of your posts so much as that I've simply seen these particular kinds of argument far too many times and would like to address them.
hulksmashley said:
My unpopular opinion is that I believe atheists are just as close minded as the christians they claim to hate. Really? You only believe in something you can logically prove? You don't think there is anything in the entire universe that might be beyond your comprehension? You are so smart you can understand everything that has ever been?
First off, speaking as an atheist, I don't care about logical proof where truth claims are concerned. A logical argument is only as good as the premises upon which it is based, and it is all too easy to include a flawed premise given our incomplete understanding of the universe. What I do care about is empirical evidence. Simply making a claim that "you can't disprove" is pointless. There are an infinite number of ways to be wrong that are equally non-falsifiable. Unless you can provide some evidence that would make your claim worth considering I'm simply going to toss it on the vast heap of claims that failed to meet their burden of proof (that which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence).
You also don't have to know everything to know when something is incorrect. In fact, while you can never know if you are right, it can be trivially easy to know if you are wrong. An incorrect theory can be demonstrated false with a single fact, but even if you had the truth there would be know way of knowing whether you actually knew the truth, or merely something indistinguishable from the truth given the limits of your experience or experimental equipment. The whole point of conducting experiments is to determine the characteristics that the truth would have to have, so that you can eliminate any theories that don't have those qualities and build new theories that do. None of these theories may be correct, but within the limits of our power to observe, a well crafted theory will have all the qualities of the truth, and if nothing else, will at least be useful until a better theory comes along.
For instance, say a hypothetical caveman, with no prior knowledge on the subject, wanted to know the value of pi. After carving several stone wheels as carefully as possible and carefully measuring the distance that they traveled along the ground in one revolution in terms of wheel diameters he came to the conclusion that pi was between 3.1 and 3.2. Furthermore, lets say he split the difference and declared that pi was equal to 3.15. Say another hypothetical caveman came along and declared (with no research at all) that pi was equal to exactly 3. The first caveman doesn't know the exact value of pi, and his best guess isn't correct, but he can still say with certainty that the second caveman is wrong. And while neither caveman may be right, the first is still less wrong than the second.
S1leNt RIP said:
I believe in God and while I believe that evolution is possibly outside of my areas of knowledge/research/experience, I find it unlikely given my (woefully inadequate) research on the subject.
This is an example of the argument from ignorance (basically Y must be true because I don't understand how X could be true, or Y must be true because I can't think of a better way). While I certainly give you credit for at least admitting the possibility of ignorance (this kind of self-knowledge is sadly rare), would it be so much harder to simply admit that you don't know? The simple fact that you can't think of a better way, or that something doesn't make sense to you doesn't suddenly make any opinion you may have on the matter more valid. If you can't live with not knowing, good, you're halfway there, now go learn something. This is the information age after all; it has never been easier to acquire new knowledge.
Also, with regards to evolution specifically, most people are lumping several distinct facts and theories together and labeling them the "theory of evolution." Evolution itself, or the change in heritable characteristics across generations, has been observed repeatedly both in the lab and in nature and has been an accepted fact since before Darwin (who proposed the theory of natural selection, not evolution). Darwin's theory (natural selection) was the second major theory that attempted to explain evolution, the previous one being Lamarkism, or the theory that traits acquired during an organism's life were passed down to its offspring. In addition there are tons of separate evolutionary theories dealing with the evolution of particular species or groups of species. With those theories, there is a great deal of debate, not over whether or not evolution occurred, but rather how it occurred (much like the debate over gravity isn't about whether it exists, but how it works).