Unrealistic Conflicts

[emeraldrafael]

And there;s another thing. How does an all powerful character like gandolf not just destroy the ring himself. he's God from what i've been told and then thats the argument of why he cant do anyhting.

You've been told wrong, basically. Gandalf is just an incredibly clever wizard. He managed to be bested by Saruman, so chances are that Sauron's even more powerful than Saruman. So Gandalf couldn't destroy it. Even then, it's explained in the book and film "it was forged in the fires of Mt Doom, only there can it be undone" or words to that effect.

Then why do I always he cries about he's so pwoerful he can best death and is an allegory to God in the series cause the guy who wrote it needed a god like figure? I can clearly remember this coming up in a thread here on this site some weeks/months ago that i had this argument and thats how it was explain by the very WIDE majority of LotR fans (I think it was the dumbledore/Gandalf thread).

 

[Unia]

Almost any slasher movie. The stupidity of the main cast is just incredibly unrealistic. At the very least, you'd think they'd realize something was up and huddle up close to protect themselves from any murderer that went after them. And even if he showed his face, without a gun how would he fend off the ensemble of usually between 4 and 8 individuals? He'd kill two at the most before being overwhelmed.

Also agreed with Avatar.

Slashers...aaagh. I saw a scene from Halloween sequel or something that made my brain melt in disbelief. The masked killer had taken a hit to the head and was lying unconcious in front of 3 people. Not ONE of them thought to
A)Drag him to a broom closet, barricade the door and call for help.
B)Unmask him, then run off to reveal his identity.
C)Bludgeon him to death with whatever he was knocked unconcius to begin with.
D)At the very least, TAKE THE FRICKIN AXE FROM HIS LIMP FINGERS.

 

[BENZOOKA]

This is something that bugs the shit out of me. In everything, because it happens in everything.

To boil this idea down to the basics, it's plot convenience. Why don't the Covenant just glass every single planet with humans on it? Why don't (good) wizards just use the (immobilization) killing spell and be done with it? Why doesn't Jon from Garfield just kill himself? Well... because.

That'd be boring.

I tried to find the specific TVTropes article for it, but it's impossible to find the one thing you are looking for on that site, so... well, nevermind that point, I guess.

There was a scene in Castlevania: Lords of Shadow (don't worry, not a spoiler), where you are fighting crazy wolf things while racing through a forest. During this section, you are riding on top of a... horse (I don't remember), and attacking these wolves, traveling at like 70 miles an hour. To kill one, you have to JUMP OFF OF YOUR HORSE AT 70 MILES AN HOUR, on to one of them. Then you have to kill it, causing it to --obviously-- fall over dead. Then, within a split second, you jump off of a no longer moving carcass, back on to your speeding stallion, and keep riding.

All with out missing a beat, all with scary instantaneous reflexes.

But then.

The section ends, you kill all the wolves, and a little cinematic starts playing. You, on your horse, running down the very wide forest path. You look around, to see what's up with the wolves. They say "not much", you say "okay, cool", and you face ahead. You gasp, see a tree branch straight in your path (at just the right height to hit your body and not your horses, causing you to be knocked off of it). You see it coming.

You see it coming, and then you see it coming.

And with lightning quick reaction time,

You get smashed in the face.

A pack of wolves got nothing on a well positioned branch!

OT: I try not to over-analyze these kind of things, as I don't want to rip fiction apart and make it worse for myself.

 

[Lord Kloo]

ooooh, firstly I'd like to say good thread..

Star Wars (no. 6) just because the two main leaders got killed and the empire got its ass kicked again the rebels somehow liberate the galaxy.. the majority of the imperial fleet was still intact, and the cloned imperial armies would still be loyal to the highest ranking imperial officer, so yeah..

Modern Warfare 2, although Russia could have invaded undetected, providing the satellites were down.. they couldn't have held any ground with only airborne ops.. what they should have done was gone to the UN with their evidence and got the whole world on America's ass..

Potter, well yes magic can kill and it creates pretty force fields, but hey, assuming that magic comes in line with all other physical laws of the universe then even a shield is breakable eventually, a few daisy cutters should level hogwarts easily.. And also, it takes many years to train wizards and there are few anyway.. humans breed like rats, possess destructive tendencies and the African Militias have proved that children as young as 5 can be trained killers..

 

[BaldursBananaSoap]

And there;s another thing. How does an all powerful character like gandolf not just destroy the ring himself. he's God from what i've been told and then thats the argument of why he cant do anyhting.

You've been told wrong, basically. Gandalf is just an incredibly clever wizard. He managed to be bested by Saruman, so chances are that Sauron's even more powerful than Saruman. So Gandalf couldn't destroy it. Even then, it's explained in the book and film "it was forged in the fires of Mt Doom, only there can it be undone" or words to that effect.

Then why do I always he cries about he's so pwoerful he can best death and is an allegory to God in the series cause the guy who wrote it needed a god like figure? I can clearly remember this coming up in a thread here on this site some weeks/months ago that i had this argument and thats how it was explain by the very WIDE majority of LotR fans (I think it was the dumbledore/Gandalf thread).

Have you read LOTR? I'm guessing no since you spelled his name wrong. The gods in that movie are not the "do anything ever whenever" gods. Gandalf comes back from the dead but only on borrowed time. He is from a different plain of existence, and his powers are limited on earth. I think Sauron is like this too.

 

[emeraldrafael]

And there;s another thing. How does an all powerful character like gandolf not just destroy the ring himself. he's God from what i've been told and then thats the argument of why he cant do anyhting.

You've been told wrong, basically. Gandalf is just an incredibly clever wizard. He managed to be bested by Saruman, so chances are that Sauron's even more powerful than Saruman. So Gandalf couldn't destroy it. Even then, it's explained in the book and film "it was forged in the fires of Mt Doom, only there can it be undone" or words to that effect.

Then why do I always he cries about he's so pwoerful he can best death and is an allegory to God in the series cause the guy who wrote it needed a god like figure? I can clearly remember this coming up in a thread here on this site some weeks/months ago that i had this argument and thats how it was explain by the very WIDE majority of LotR fans (I think it was the dumbledore/Gandalf thread).

Have you read LOTR? I'm guessing no since you spelled his name wrong. The gods in that movie are not the "do anything ever whenever" gods. Gandalf comes back from the dead but only on borrowed time. He is from a different plain of existence, and his powers are limited on earth. I think Sauron is like this too.

No, I'll straight up admit i've never read/watched the books/movies. Or played the games. SImply because i dont like it. It got overhyped and huge about how amazing it was as a book and how fantastics the movies were and i didnt wnat to get sucked into that ass hole sphere that always follows (i like to be an ass on my own accords, thank you). So I'm looking at this on an outside spectrum, but people often criticize things I like (Sword of Truth Series, Star Wars, um... Star Trek but i only ever liked next generation really, and other things like Stephen King books plot lines) with the same outside view that makes me have fury much like Moviebob so I would like to voice my opinions on the same outside view.

Also if they're on a different plane of existence why odnt they keep it there? Why does any really hero story have to be made? And how does any small "good" force ever beat the huge "evil" force just because they have plucky heros and the will to do good win? You can take your pick of anything for that,s ince thats usually the plot of any notably popular fiction novel.

 

[Squarez]

And there;s another thing. How does an all powerful character like gandolf not just destroy the ring himself. he's God from what i've been told and then thats the argument of why he cant do anyhting.

You've been told wrong, basically. Gandalf is just an incredibly clever wizard. He managed to be bested by Saruman, so chances are that Sauron's even more powerful than Saruman. So Gandalf couldn't destroy it. Even then, it's explained in the book and film "it was forged in the fires of Mt Doom, only there can it be undone" or words to that effect.

Then why do I always he cries about he's so pwoerful he can best death and is an allegory to God in the series cause the guy who wrote it needed a god like figure? I can clearly remember this coming up in a thread here on this site some weeks/months ago that i had this argument and thats how it was explain by the very WIDE majority of LotR fans (I think it was the dumbledore/Gandalf thread).

Well forgive me, I've only read them once. And not in too much in detail to be honest.

 

[Kurt Horsting]

Sasquach vs the Lochness monster... If anyone remembers "Celebrity death match" you'll know what I'm talking about.

 

[Lord Kloo]

ooh, just remembered something, I once remember having a heated debate with someone as to why Space Marines would have no problem dealing with wizards.. that's something I'd like to see, a super-macho space marine planting a chainsword into that little potter kid, or even better just stepping on him..

 

[emeraldrafael]

Snip

Well, you've done more then i have to understand.

Then why do I always he cries about he's so pwoerful he can best death and is an allegory to God in the series cause the guy who wrote it needed a god like figure?

Gandalf's rebirth is a kind of Christ allegory. However, it's an incomplete one, and Tolkien does have the characters explain clearly why it's the hobbits who have to take the Ring: it's because the more powerful members of "the Wise" are more susceptible to its corrupting effects and would become Dark Lords themselves. (Jackson preserved this in the movies.) The hobbits, meanwhile, are basically salt-of-the-earth British country squires, so gosh-darned sensible that they at least had a chance of holding out and completing the quest.

Not that I'm saying this is a great explanation; I personally find the whole idea behind hobbits rather insufferable. But Tolkien does at least explain it within the constraints of the setting.

Thats another point. Wouldnt the fact that you're wise make you the better choice? I mean, why does frodo never look at the ring (and shut up i've never ready the books but I've seen worse butchers of the names you damned crybabies) and think, "hey... we're getting killed here, why dont instead we allign ourselves? I have the ring, i can tturn against and destroy the ruler (vader-palpatine syndrome) and make things better for my people, who areguably are treated like shit and third class citizens that no one could care more for if it was a human that got charged with the task.

 

[Ramin 123]

Mine has to be most conflicts in...well in history in general haha. The most recent and BEYOND pointless I can think of is here in Northern Ireland (and Scotland because yeah Celtic/Rangers as football didn't need any more catalysts for violence you stupid twats) between Protestants and Catholics.

I hardly need to explain the utter stupidity and ignorance on both sides of the fence. I have experienced more from the protestants/loyalists (yes I know not all protestants are loyalists you nipples) but they really are a bunch of mindless idiots who have this patriotic persona that makes me recoil with disgust. I honestly wonder do they not realise that England really doesn't care if you support the crown, you're a territory and not important...

 

[Korolev]

It's fiction. Yes, many of the conflicts in films/books/tv shows are unrealistic. Avatar comes to mind - if they have space travel, they could have just bombed the entire thing from space, easy peasy. But that would have made the film very bleak and depressing.

Again, with this whole "mages and muggles" thing from harry potter - it's hard to believe that you wouldn't find mages that are patriotic enough to back the democratic government of their nation, especially when many grew up as "normies". It's also hard to believe that the governments wouldn't have invented some sort of weapon to use as a last resort.

Look, at the end of the day, fictional works don't have to be 100% realistic, because, well, they're works of fiction. Any logical reason for why it wouldn't work can be rationalized away by saying "oh well, the other guys have X magic spell". Magic is inherently illogical, so arguing why a fictional magical world is unrealistic is not going to convince anyone, since they can make up anything to explain it away.

That's always bugged me that people never could accept that. It's like when trek fans find logical flaws in a show, and some rabid fan then tries to invent a million lame excuses to explain it away, whereas the most LOGICAL thing to do is just to admit that the whole show is a work of fiction made up by writers, and hence sometimes it is illogical or inconsistent. The way trek fans carry themselves, you'd swear some think that Star Trek is supposed to be a documentary or a reflection of reality. It isn't - it's a TV Show written up by writers who want a pay check. Of course it's inconsistent in spots, IT'S NOT REAL GENIUS!

 

[WanderingFool]

Then why do I always he cries about he's so pwoerful he can best death and is an allegory to God in the series cause the guy who wrote it needed a god like figure?

Gandalf's rebirth is a kind of Christ allegory. However, it's an incomplete one, and Tolkien does have the characters explain clearly why it's the hobbits who have to take the Ring: it's because the more powerful members of "the Wise" are more susceptible to its corrupting effects and would become Dark Lords themselves. (Jackson preserved this in the movies.) The hobbits, meanwhile, are basically salt-of-the-earth British country squires, so gosh-darned sensible that they at least had a chance of holding out and completing the quest.

Not that I'm saying this is a great explanation; I personally find the whole idea behind hobbits rather insufferable. But Tolkien does at least explain it within the constraints of the setting.

So basically, "the Wise" understand just what power the ring has, and because of that, they can be currupted by it. Yet the... "dumb" hobbits (thats how I perceived them from the movies, not the books... which I will never read) are safe from its power for a little longer because of their ignorance... This actually makes sense... Of course Frodo has to be the smart hobbit and become currupted...

*Edit*

Now imagine a wizard with an AK.

Shit just this minute got real.

Spoiler: Shit just this minute got real

I feel I should thank you...

 

[Mcface]

ooooh, firstly I'd like to say good thread..

Star Wars (no. 6) just because the two main leaders got killed and the empire got its ass kicked again the rebels somehow liberate the galaxy.. the majority of the imperial fleet was still intact, and the cloned imperial armies would still be loyal to the highest ranking imperial officer, so yeah..

Modern Warfare 2, although Russia could have invaded undetected, providing the satellites were down.. they couldn't have held any ground with only airborne ops.. what they should have done was gone to the UN with their evidence and got the whole world on America's ass..

Potter, well yes magic can kill and it creates pretty force fields, but hey, assuming that magic comes in line with all other physical laws of the universe then even a shield is breakable eventually, a few daisy cutters should level hogwarts easily.. And also, it takes many years to train wizards and there are few anyway.. humans breed like rats, possess destructive tendencies and the African Militias have proved that children as young as 5 can be trained killers..

Agree with the MW2 bit.
America has the best navy and airforce in the world, a russian airborne assault wouldn't come anywhere near the US borders in force like that.

 

[TheMan2203]

The Locust in GOW deciding that no we wont be nice to the humans nonono we'll try and fight them aaaaand the lambent at the same time, yknow like the nazis in ww2 good plan lads good plan

.............

dont tell the wife

 

[Kurokami]

I'm wondering, I just heard about how in the Harry Potter series, the evil wizards begin attacking the muggles. Fundamentally this seems like a bad idea, given that going to open war with a group that has spent the last century building a stockpile of weapons that could sterilize every continent ten times over with wands that take several seconds to cast something that will kill 1 human. After thinking on this, I figured to make this thread. So my question is this:

Has there ever been a conflict in fiction that was one sided in a way that didn't make sense?

Considering magic has no real limitation and that they could just as well control those weapons you're talking about I don't know where you got the idea we'd come out on top.

 

[TheMan2203]

the same thing goes to werewolves, how in the blue fuck did u survive being mauled by the giant wolf man mash-up?

 

[Kurokami]

And there;s another thing. How does an all powerful character like gandolf not just destroy the ring himself. he's God from what i've been told and then thats the argument of why he cant do anyhting.

You've been told wrong, basically. Gandalf is just an incredibly clever wizard. He managed to be bested by Saruman, so chances are that Sauron's even more powerful than Saruman. So Gandalf couldn't destroy it. Even then, it's explained in the book and film "it was forged in the fires of Mt Doom, only there can it be undone" or words to that effect.

Here's the thing though, right... He can summon those eagle guys and the ring bearer can ride em, other than about 7 or however many of those wyverns there are it would still be considerably easier/quicker to ride one of thems and drop the ring into the Volcano, no?