[Update 2] How/why are console gamers satisfied with 30 fps?

[Evonisia]

It's clear most people aren't used to 60FPS. Once they have played games at that frame-rate, they will notice.

So mostly it's just ignorance.

Pardon me? I'm ignorant about fps? I know the difference very well. I just. Don't. Care.

No what it is is that you just haven't played enough games at 60fps or above, therefore you haven't lost the ability to tolerate 30fps yet, it's such a terrible shame.

 

[Erttheking]

It's clear most people aren't used to 60FPS. Once they have played games at that frame-rate, they will notice.

So mostly it's just ignorance.

Pardon me? I'm ignorant about fps? I know the difference very well. I just. Don't. Care.

No what it is is that you just haven't played enough games at 60fps or above, therefore you haven't lost the ability to tolerate 30fps yet, it's such a terrible shame.

Call me crazy, but I think I'll live with 30 fps. I've been doing it my whole gaming life.

 

[SUPA FRANKY]

It's clear most people aren't used to 60FPS. Once they have played games at that frame-rate, they will notice.

So mostly it's just ignorance.

Pardon me? I'm ignorant about fps? I know the difference very well. I just. Don't. Care.

No what it is is that you just haven't played enough games at 60fps or above, therefore you haven't lost the ability to tolerate 30fps yet, it's such a terrible shame.

Call me crazy, but I think I'll live with 30 fps. I've been doing it my whole gaming life.

That's fine. But once every game you play is 60 FPS and above, then you WILL care.

If you really wanna prove my point, spend about a month playing games you know for a fact our 60FPS ( Perferably with a mouse and keyboard).

I never realized how much 60FPS spoiled me when I go back to play games such a Resident Evil 4 and the Ty the Tasmanian Tiger series.

 

[Erttheking]

It's clear most people aren't used to 60FPS. Once they have played games at that frame-rate, they will notice.

So mostly it's just ignorance.

Pardon me? I'm ignorant about fps? I know the difference very well. I just. Don't. Care.

No what it is is that you just haven't played enough games at 60fps or above, therefore you haven't lost the ability to tolerate 30fps yet, it's such a terrible shame.

Call me crazy, but I think I'll live with 30 fps. I've been doing it my whole gaming life.

That's fine. But once every game you play is 60 FPS and above, then you WILL care.

If you really wanna prove my point, spend about a month playing games you know for a fact our 60FPS ( Perferably with a mouse and keyboard).

I never realized how much 60FPS spoiled me when I go back to play games such a Resident Evil 4 and the Ty the Tasmanian Tiger series.

Don't tell me what i will and will not think.

And I've been playing League of Legends for months now. It runs at 60 fps on my computer. I only know this because it says so in the corner. 30 fps games on my 360 and old PS2 do not bother me despite the hours of gameplay I've poured into it. I. Do. Not. Care. About. Frames. Per. Second.

 

[Bad Jim]

Because I quite simply don't care. Graphics come in dead last when it comes to making a game enjoyable. FPS fall into that category for me. I don't care what the FPS are on a game so long as its fun to play.

Graphics and FPS are opposites. The better the graphics, the worse the FPS, and vice versa.

If you care about neither, you should logically default to preferring FPS, since fancy graphics require the developer to spend the GDP of a small country making them, while FPS has no ridiculous costs attached. 60fps would be cheaper if nothing else.

 

[Erttheking]

Because I quite simply don't care. Graphics come in dead last when it comes to making a game enjoyable. FPS fall into that category for me. I don't care what the FPS are on a game so long as its fun to play.

Graphics and FPS are opposites. The better the graphics, the worse the FPS, and vice versa.

If you care about neither, you should logically default to preferring FPS, since fancy graphics require the developer to spend the GDP of a small country making them, while FPS has no ridiculous costs attached. 60fps would be cheaper if nothing else.

My mistake. However, so long as the FPS is smooth enough not to affect gameplay, I'm good with it. And I find 30 fps to be enough. That is all I'm saying.

 

[SUPA FRANKY]

It's clear most people aren't used to 60FPS. Once they have played games at that frame-rate, they will notice.

So mostly it's just ignorance.

Pardon me? I'm ignorant about fps? I know the difference very well. I just. Don't. Care.

No what it is is that you just haven't played enough games at 60fps or above, therefore you haven't lost the ability to tolerate 30fps yet, it's such a terrible shame.

Call me crazy, but I think I'll live with 30 fps. I've been doing it my whole gaming life.

That's fine. But once every game you play is 60 FPS and above, then you WILL care.

If you really wanna prove my point, spend about a month playing games you know for a fact our 60FPS ( Perferably with a mouse and keyboard).

I never realized how much 60FPS spoiled me when I go back to play games such a Resident Evil 4 and the Ty the Tasmanian Tiger series.

Don't tell me what i will and will not think.

And I've been playing League of Legends for months now. It runs at 60 fps on my computer. I only know this because it says so in the corner. 30 fps games on my 360 and old PS2 do not bother me despite the hours of gameplay I've poured into it. I. Do. Not. Care. About. Frames. Per. Second.

I don't care if you don't care. lol. It's just I'm 100% sure if you only played games with 60 FPS, then you would care.

But you don't care. So whatever.

 

[Aesir23]

It's clear most people aren't used to 60FPS. Once they have played games at that frame-rate, they will notice.

So mostly it's just ignorance.

Ignorance? As has been stated many times in this thread there are people that just don't care. Is it really so inconceivable that FPS just might not be on their list of priorities?

 

[Erttheking]

It's clear most people aren't used to 60FPS. Once they have played games at that frame-rate, they will notice.

So mostly it's just ignorance.

Pardon me? I'm ignorant about fps? I know the difference very well. I just. Don't. Care.

No what it is is that you just haven't played enough games at 60fps or above, therefore you haven't lost the ability to tolerate 30fps yet, it's such a terrible shame.

Call me crazy, but I think I'll live with 30 fps. I've been doing it my whole gaming life.

That's fine. But once every game you play is 60 FPS and above, then you WILL care.

If you really wanna prove my point, spend about a month playing games you know for a fact our 60FPS ( Perferably with a mouse and keyboard).

I never realized how much 60FPS spoiled me when I go back to play games such a Resident Evil 4 and the Ty the Tasmanian Tiger series.

Don't tell me what i will and will not think.

And I've been playing League of Legends for months now. It runs at 60 fps on my computer. I only know this because it says so in the corner. 30 fps games on my 360 and old PS2 do not bother me despite the hours of gameplay I've poured into it. I. Do. Not. Care. About. Frames. Per. Second.

I don't care if you don't care. lol. It's just I'm 100% sure if you only played games with 60 FPS, then you would care.

But you don't care. So whatever.

I would want something if every single game I played had it? Not exactly a ground breaking statement. That's like saying I'd want guns in all of my games if I only ever played games with guns.

Yes. I don't care. So don't call me ignorant.

 

[SUPA FRANKY]

It's clear most people aren't used to 60FPS. Once they have played games at that frame-rate, they will notice.

So mostly it's just ignorance.

Pardon me? I'm ignorant about fps? I know the difference very well. I just. Don't. Care.

No what it is is that you just haven't played enough games at 60fps or above, therefore you haven't lost the ability to tolerate 30fps yet, it's such a terrible shame.

Call me crazy, but I think I'll live with 30 fps. I've been doing it my whole gaming life.

That's fine. But once every game you play is 60 FPS and above, then you WILL care.

If you really wanna prove my point, spend about a month playing games you know for a fact our 60FPS ( Perferably with a mouse and keyboard).

I never realized how much 60FPS spoiled me when I go back to play games such a Resident Evil 4 and the Ty the Tasmanian Tiger series.

Don't tell me what i will and will not think.

And I've been playing League of Legends for months now. It runs at 60 fps on my computer. I only know this because it says so in the corner. 30 fps games on my 360 and old PS2 do not bother me despite the hours of gameplay I've poured into it. I. Do. Not. Care. About. Frames. Per. Second.

I don't care if you don't care. lol. It's just I'm 100% sure if you only played games with 60 FPS, then you would care.

But you don't care. So whatever.

I would want something if every single game I played had it? Not exactly a ground breaking statement. That's like saying I'd want guns in all of my games if I only ever played games with guns.

Yes. I don't care. So don't call me ignorant.

Wow. Talk about False Equivalence.

Fine. Let's just say in the dark.

 

[SUPA FRANKY]

It's clear most people aren't used to 60FPS. Once they have played games at that frame-rate, they will notice.

So mostly it's just ignorance.

Ignorance? As has been stated many times in this thread there are people that just don't care. Is it really so inconceivable that FPS just might not be on their list of priorities?

It's because they most likely havn't exposed themselves to too many 60 FPS games. It's like the difference between 480p and 1080p. You wouldn't care if that's all you knew, but give you a month and 480p will hurt your eyes.

And whats wrong with being ignorant? I'm ignorant of stuff? As are you and Erth? lol.

 

[michael87cn]

Because it doesn't change how fun the game is for me.

I think that if you're playing that are so very hard, that you need to be able to react faster than the human eye can see, you are playing games that don't exist. Also, if you are so very bad at games that being able to react that fast (I realize the contradiction of being bad but still having fast reflexes...) is your crutch, well, I feel bad for you!

I have been playing games since they were blobby pixels. I had fun playing games that were black and white. I had fun playing games that had 1 simple mechanic, a moving ball bouncing from one side of the screen to the other. Why would I need games to be 60 fps? As far as fps goes, as long as there are no moments of freezing or stuttering, I enjoy the experience...

Seriously, do people not realize this comes down to snobbiness? Fanciness? Being wealthy and having wealthy taste. Yes, Poppers can enjoy video games too...

Ummm, and because it seems relevant atm, I can play games at 60 fps, and most of my games run much higher than that.

 

[elvor0]

Because I quite simply don't care. Graphics come in dead last when it comes to making a game enjoyable. FPS fall into that category for me. I don't care what the FPS are on a game so long as its fun to play.

What, and virtually doubling your potential reaction time doesn't do that?
For games that rely on fast reflexes, like twitch shooters, DMC style brawlers, fighting games, and high speed racing games, a higher framerate is virtually mandatory.

I imagine that attempting to play Metal Gear Rising at only 30 FPS would be a lot more frustrating than it would be at a smooth 60.

*Shrugs* Revengance played just fine on my 360. Don't really see what the problem is.

That's because it was running at 60 FPS on consoles as well as PC. Imagine playing it with half of the frames cut out.
Or if you have a PS4, grab the remaster of The Last of Us, play for a while without changing anything, then go into the options and lock the framerate to 30 fps. But if you can't do that either, play a level of MGR and the DmC reboot back to back and see how your reaction time changes and see if you can tell which one seems smoother.

I think the fact you had to spell it out for me that it was 60 fps and not 30 fps should tell you how little impact that fps has on me.

Only because you didn't know. You'd certainly notice if you were handed a copy that played at 30 now, it would play worse. Which isn't really a matter of debate, it /would/ play worse. Not that it matters if you don't care, just sayin'

Standard frame-rate for movies is 24 because a 30% factor of safety was pretty standard for hardware at the time.

Actually it was the balance between image quality/convincing playback speed, plus 24 was easily divisible for editing, and rolls of film were expensive, so 24 was chosen.

Besides, comparing films or even bring them up when we're talking about games is useless. Games require input and are constantly rendering, a film...is just a film, it's already exposed and set up, it will always play at a consistant speed, games are completely variable.

Is there a difference between 30 and 60 FPS?

Actually, no.
[...snip for space]

Long story short, anyone that tells you there's some visual quality improvement from a simple framerate doubling of something over 24 fps to begin with is one of those kinds of people that think that gold-plating the connectors of stereo cables improves quality... that is to say, someone without the first clue how any of the involved factors works.

(Edit: it's a concern for PC gamers because it's an easy benchmark for how well your graphics hardware is performing... again, it's an indicator for something else, not important in itself. Sure, it'll prove that PC hardware is typically better than console if you want to make that comparison, but... well, no one ever argued that consoles had better hardware than PC so that's kind of a useless point to make.)

Bolded the bit I wanted to point out.

You can argue till you're blue in the face that there objectively isn't an improvement from 24 to 60, but you'd be wrong. Just becuse /you/ don't notice it, doesn't mean you can tell people that there isn't a difference. My eyes don't allow me to see 3D with the red and blue lenses, doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

I know for a fact 60 looks smoother than 30. I know that because my laptop is pretty crummy, and runs games at about 30 a good 90% of the time. Sometimes I have spikes, at 60 its much, much smoother. It also has an improved input time, Metal Gear Risng plays at 30 on my laptop, it plays at 60 on my xbox. Guess which one plays and looks smoother?

They also filmed The Hobbit at 48, which skeeved people out because they're so used to tv being at 24 frames.[1] These people have /no/ idea about FPS and the like and they noticed. Even stuff like Hearthstone runs at 30 for me, and I always notice when it spikes to 60 because it skeeves me out because I'm so used to things running at 30. Same with playing WoW on my laptop vs on my girlfriends monolithic mega rig.

Go here, and tell me there isn't a difference between 24 and 60. https://frames-per-second.appspot.com/

[1]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/film/film-news/9225905/The-Hobbit-previews-to-mixed-reactions.html

 

[Aesir23]

It's clear most people aren't used to 60FPS. Once they have played games at that frame-rate, they will notice.

So mostly it's just ignorance.

Ignorance? As has been stated many times in this thread there are people that just don't care. Is it really so inconceivable that FPS just might not be on their list of priorities?

It's because they most likely havn't exposed themselves to too many 60 FPS games. It's like the difference between 480p and 1080p. You wouldn't care if that's all you knew, but give you a month and 480p will hurt your eyes.

And whats wrong with being ignorant? I'm ignorant of stuff? As are you and Erth? lol.

I think part of it was just the way it was worded and I will admit fault for taking it such a way. All too often "ignorant" is used and taken in such a way as to mean "complete and total idiot".

 

[direkiller]

I bought an n64 and I'm currently having more fun with that than I have with any modern game for a while.
God knows what fps those games run at.
Who cares as long as the game's fun?
Elitists nowadays....
*Edit: "Elitists" wasn't aimed at anyone in this thread for the record.

oddly, most ran at 25 or 30FPS depending on where you live
Some games ran as low as (20/16.66) -golden eye multiplayer, Majora's Mask
Some ran at 60


Anything made after/around the PS1 are locked into something that divides evenly into 60 or 50 for PAL, due to the Refresh rate of TVs.
Which may be why they shoot for 30FPS, it's easier to fudge 5 frames of animation then 10 frames and keep the same timing while looking fluid.


Captra: Bond, James bond

I just had to mention goldeneye

 

[SUPA FRANKY]

It's clear most people aren't used to 60FPS. Once they have played games at that frame-rate, they will notice.

So mostly it's just ignorance.

Ignorance? As has been stated many times in this thread there are people that just don't care. Is it really so inconceivable that FPS just might not be on their list of priorities?

It's because they most likely havn't exposed themselves to too many 60 FPS games. It's like the difference between 480p and 1080p. You wouldn't care if that's all you knew, but give you a month and 480p will hurt your eyes.

And whats wrong with being ignorant? I'm ignorant of stuff? As are you and Erth? lol.

I think part of it was just the way it was worded and I will admit fault for taking it such a way. All too often "ignorant" is used and taken in such a way as to mean "complete and total idiot".

Everyones ignorant of something. I don't know Spanish or high degrees of math. Which means I'm ignorant.

But I digress. Sorry i I hurt anyones feelings.

 

[Erttheking]

It's clear most people aren't used to 60FPS. Once they have played games at that frame-rate, they will notice.

So mostly it's just ignorance.

Pardon me? I'm ignorant about fps? I know the difference very well. I just. Don't. Care.

No what it is is that you just haven't played enough games at 60fps or above, therefore you haven't lost the ability to tolerate 30fps yet, it's such a terrible shame.

Call me crazy, but I think I'll live with 30 fps. I've been doing it my whole gaming life.

That's fine. But once every game you play is 60 FPS and above, then you WILL care.

If you really wanna prove my point, spend about a month playing games you know for a fact our 60FPS ( Perferably with a mouse and keyboard).

I never realized how much 60FPS spoiled me when I go back to play games such a Resident Evil 4 and the Ty the Tasmanian Tiger series.

Don't tell me what i will and will not think.

And I've been playing League of Legends for months now. It runs at 60 fps on my computer. I only know this because it says so in the corner. 30 fps games on my 360 and old PS2 do not bother me despite the hours of gameplay I've poured into it. I. Do. Not. Care. About. Frames. Per. Second.

I don't care if you don't care. lol. It's just I'm 100% sure if you only played games with 60 FPS, then you would care.

But you don't care. So whatever.

I would want something if every single game I played had it? Not exactly a ground breaking statement. That's like saying I'd want guns in all of my games if I only ever played games with guns.

Yes. I don't care. So don't call me ignorant.

Wow. Talk about False Equivalence.

Fine. Let's just say in the dark.

The dark huh? So 60 FPS is the way of the light?

And don't imply that I'm being ignorant here. I don't appreciate my intelligence being insulted.

 

[DaWaffledude]

If you always played at 90 FPS, I'm sure 60 would become unbearable. Why bother speeding up the metaphorical treadmill?

 

[RedDeadFred]

Because I quite simply don't care. Graphics come in dead last when it comes to making a game enjoyable. FPS fall into that category for me. I don't care what the FPS are on a game so long as its fun to play.

Yup. Graphics not only come last fore me, but FPS is probably the thing I care about least when it comes to them.

So ya, literally the last thing I care about when playing a game.

Oh for fuck sake...

Framerate is not a graphics issue, it's inherently a gameplay issue.

Why does no-one seem to get that?

You're right, whenever I compare the two, it's more of a visual experience so that's why I lumped them together. You're absolutely right though.

Even still, I couldn't care less about whether my FPS is 30 or 60, just as long as it's consistent. While the difference is quite obvious going back and forth, I don't find that it diminishes the quality of the game at all. It doesn't matter for multiplayer on consoles since everyone is using the same FPS. The only time 60 FPS matters is in competitive multiplayer games on PC since you don't want to have slightly slower reactions than the other players. For single player games, at least for me, it doesn't matter in the slightest whether it's 30 or 60 FPS.