Update: TVTropes Deletes All Rape Tropes

[Soviet Heavy]

Yeah, I knew you weren't responding to Treblaine, I was just wondering if you were going to.

If it means that much to you, then fine, I'll respond to him.

What do you hope to achieve by badgering paedos into silence or banishment? That they'll somehow just stop being paedos, or that if they go away they are somehow less of a problem overall? Is your problem with paedos the assumption that they all hurt children, or do you just hate them because they are different?

Also, you can't so easily dismiss freedom of speech. You have to actually make an argument for why it does not apply to paedos talking about weird loli fetish, yet still applies to other subjects of discourse. There is an argument to be made, but you can't throw out the baby (freedom of speech) with the bathwater.

This "shit" didn't follow you anywhere you go, it is everywhere on the internet, people are resistant to infringement on freedom of speech for the precedent it sets.

My assumption is not that all peados are child molesters. My assumption is that the TvTropes userbase has a collection of idiots who try to justify pornographic and pedophile material on a website that their owner is trying to purport being "family friendly."

My point is that freedom of speech should only be applied to TvTropes if they in turn can treat the subject material with respect, something that they repeatedly have proven they cannot do. If you are a pedophile, I don't want to hear about it. And I especially don't want to hear your justifications. I don't know how many times I heard the "I'm a hebephile/ephebophile so it's really okay!" argument on their forum. That isn't something you should be talking about on a public website.

Google caught wind of Tvtropes problems beforehand. This is actually the second time that they've had to tell Fast Eddie to clean up his site. They are not the ones who are at fault here. The first time Google pulled ad revenue was in 2010, since Adsense prohibits adult content. Instead of cleaning the articles, Fast Eddie put up a wall around them with an age barrier. Google Adsense would not be applied to those pages, but articles not behind the curtain would be able to sustain them.

The second time started with their article on Tentacle Porn. Google had had enough of Eddie's lack of cleaning, and threatened to remove all ad revenue if they didn't clean up their act, regardless of whether an article was behind the curtain. Either clean the shit up, or find another ad service. This applied to the Rape Tropes.

But instead of actually cleaning the pages, they just rename them. Other people in this thread argued that Google forcing the page cuts doesn't make the problem go away, but the opposite is also true. Renaming the pages to appease google isn't going to make the problem go away. And that problem is the userbase for TvTropes in the first place. Google would never have had to put its foot down if the Tropers had been able to handle their articles with restraint or maturity, rather than turning them into indexes for their favorite porn.

So, no, this is not a personal vendetta against pedophiles by trying to shame them into silence. This is me calling out the editors and the idiots who let this happen through their own ignorance. They just couldn't shut up about their fetishes, they couldn't keep them out of the touchy articles, and now they are paying for it.

 

[Illyasviel]

I'm saying the gaming hobby as a whole doesn't seem to be mature enough to handle rape without an unhealthy dose of misogynistic BS served alongside it.

Thing is, maybe it's because i*m a dumb, backwater Swede...But I don't see those waves of feminism...All I see is men and women striving for equal rights, and on one end a small number of women who're political zealots, while there's a huge number of men on the other who at best seem to think. "Well, things are good now! Oh yes sireeee! All fine! LALALAAL!" Or, "Women should be fucked so that they're happy."

So you're saying to censor all of it? That's a severe overreaction.

A list of Holocaust victims is just a list. The intentions of those who use that list is altogether different. Its just like whether revealing clothing is exploitative or not. Wasn't there just a thread on that? The answer is it depends. If a female persons, on her own volition, wears such clothing because it makes her feel more attractive, then no, no exploitation occurred. You can argue the very fact that it makes her feel attractive is a social construction created to serve men by the eeEVVvilllLLlll Patriarchy or whatever dumb crap, but in the end, she voluntarily made the choice and I'm not going to tell her she can't wear what she wants.

If you really don't think gaming is a place for you, then leave gaming. Find a different hobby or don't go on public message boards. Btw, love you Scandinavian countries. Would like to live there one day; maybe when I'm retired or something haha.

 

[Treblaine]

Yeah, I knew you weren't responding to Treblaine, I was just wondering if you were going to.

If it means that much to you, then fine, I'll respond to him.

What do you hope to achieve by badgering paedos into silence or banishment? That they'll somehow just stop being paedos, or that if they go away they are somehow less of a problem overall? Is your problem with paedos the assumption that they all hurt children, or do you just hate them because they are different?

Also, you can't so easily dismiss freedom of speech. You have to actually make an argument for why it does not apply to paedos talking about weird loli fetish, yet still applies to other subjects of discourse. There is an argument to be made, but you can't throw out the baby (freedom of speech) with the bathwater.

This "shit" didn't follow you anywhere you go, it is everywhere on the internet, people are resistant to infringement on freedom of speech for the precedent it sets.

My assumption is not that all peados are child molesters. My assumption is that the TvTropes userbase has a collection of idiots who try to justify pornographic and pedophile material on a website that their owner is trying to purport being "family friendly."

My point is that freedom of speech should only be applied to TvTropes if they in turn can treat the subject material with respect, something that they repeatedly have proven they cannot do. If you are a pedophile, I don't want to hear about it. And I especially don't want to hear your justifications. I don't know how many times I heard the "I'm a hebephile/ephebophile so it's really okay!" argument on their forum. That isn't something you should be talking about on a public website.

Google caught wind of Tvtropes problems beforehand. This is actually the second time that they've had to tell Fast Eddie to clean up his site. They are not the ones who are at fault here. The first time Google pulled ad revenue was in 2010, since Adsense prohibits adult content. Instead of cleaning the articles, Fast Eddie put up a wall around them with an age barrier. Google Adsense would not be applied to those pages, but articles not behind the curtain would be able to sustain them.

The second time started with their article on Tentacle Porn. Google had had enough of Eddie's lack of cleaning, and threatened to remove all ad revenue if they didn't clean up their act, regardless of whether an article was behind the curtain. Either clean the shit up, or find another ad service. This applied to the Rape Tropes.

But instead of actually cleaning the pages, they just rename them. Other people in this thread argued that Google forcing the page cuts doesn't make the problem go away, but the opposite is also true. Renaming the pages to appease google isn't going to make the problem go away. And that problem is the userbase for TvTropes in the first place. Google would never have had to put its foot down if the Tropers had been able to handle their articles with restraint or maturity, rather than turning them into indexes for their favorite porn.

So, no, this is not a personal vendetta against pedophiles by trying to shame them into silence. This is me calling out the editors and the idiots who let this happen through their own ignorance. They just couldn't shut up about their fetishes, they couldn't keep them out of the touchy articles, and now they are paying for it.

Are you saying there is NO mature way to talk about subjects like Tentacle Erotica???? What about this little website, you might have heard of it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tentacle_erotica

Well... if they can. And Wikipedia is available in every school and library computer everywhere and is considered quite "family friendly". Have you seen the wikipedia pages for BDSM, lolicon, pornography and many other mature subjects. Hell THIS VERY SITE is able to talk about such subjects with what many have called "rape week" since Jim's latest jimquisition episode.

You keep going on about a "problem", what precisely is the problem with listing tropes from Porn or other titillating material? Are you saying you have NEVER watched any pornography in your life? Never read an erotic story? Isn't this part of the media we consume, part of our popular culture? Why so arbitrarily cut this out?

The problem is, why is TV Tropes trying to make money from an ad provider who is so opposed to any "adult content" that it won't allow what we are even DISCUSSING on this forum? Why doesn't the mods just keep doing what they did in 2010, and keep putting such content AdSense doesn't like behind age barriers.

"If you are a pedophile, I don't want to hear about it... ...That isn't something you should be talking about on a public website."

Why not? Why can't you be respectfully tolerant?

"freedom of speech should only be applied to TvTropes if they in turn can treat the subject material with respect"

By who's definition? By Ad Sense it is that there cannot be ANY at all discussion, no matter what respectful terms you use to describe it.

 

[Treblaine]

I'm saying the gaming hobby as a whole doesn't seem to be mature enough to handle rape without an unhealthy dose of misogynistic BS served alongside it.

They'll never learn how to talk about it maturely if they can't talk about it in a moderated place where they will learn what is and is not acceptable.

Why the fear of debate? Nothing like daylight to drive out the shadows of injustice, hate and ignorance. Talk about this, and learn.

 

[Davroth]

There's not much difference between the average Wikipedia contributor and TV Tropes user. Both are disgusting cesspools of human deviancy.

Anyway, glad they paddled back on that one. I don't approve of censorship, even if it's self censorship.

 

[Soviet Heavy]

It seems that The Mary Sue did some research, and they've updated their article.
http://www.themarysue.com/tv-tropes-restores-rape-tropes-but-disturbing-questions-remain/

And TvTropes has a thread to respond to their article.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13407352000A66320100&page=1

 

[tehweave]

There was one particular page that I quite enjoyed, mostly because it brings to light something that people never ever address: "Rape is okay when it's woman on man." It talked about how if a woman is raped in a movie by a man, said man will bite the bullet at the end. If a man is raped by a woman, we're in a wacky romantic comedy! (Wedding Crashers) Is that one gone too? I can't find it under the renamed ones.

 

[BobisOnlyBob]

There was one particular page that I quite enjoyed, mostly because it brings to light something that people never ever address: "Rape is okay when it's woman on man." It talked about how if a woman is raped in a movie by a man, said man will bite the bullet at the end. If a man is raped by a woman, we're in a wacky romantic comedy! (Wedding Crashers) Is that one gone too? I can't find it under the renamed ones.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DoubleStandardAbuseFemaleOnMale

 

[Cheesepower5]

The nerd/geek community right now is in the middle of a phase of self-examination when it comes to the use of sexual violence as a storytelling device in media for one, and the treatment of women and female characters for another.

I see the deletion of these Rape Tropes articles as a plus point, the gaming community is in a state of self reflection at the minute after E3 and its probably for the best that the gamers formulate their own opinions on this hot topic instead of regugitatating a trope a 14 year old from Alaska wrote in their spare time.

Take some points from a trope yes, but think for yourself.

Can you tell me what happened at E3 with female reporters, I feel like I'm living under a rock or something.

It was the Lara Croft Rape scene in the trailer that seemed to have caused a stir, there's a anonymous article about it on this very site, my point was that normally people just regurgitate opinions of articles on Tropes or Wiki then back up their point with said wiki article.

Now people can think for themselves, for the 5 minutes at least until all the pages are cached and published somewhere else.

Also the rape scene probably made people who been attacked pretty uncomfortable.

What about female reporters? I didn't hear anything about that.

I don't know, did I say anything about female reporters?, I mean its understandable that some people were offended by it. Also people seem to be offended by one of the Devs making very silly remarks that the rape scene will make you want to protect Lara Croft... I'm dude, just don't say anything

To be fair he could have said anything and he would have been shot down because he's on the Dev Team, people go on the defensive claiming he's naturally biased (which is true but why the hell wouldn't he be?, its not like he's going to say, "you should skip half the game I made cos its a bit shit)

You didn't mention it, but it was brought up this week andd I felt like there was something that I was missing.

One female reporter claimed she was being treated in a condescending manner by the staff at a certain booth, and blamed it on sexism. It wouldn't surprise me, but I saw lots of examples of booth workers taking reigns of the controller of a game to rush the demonstration, so she might have just been getting up in arms over an unintended attempt to keep things going.

Either way, they were backseat gaming, she was pissed.

 

[tehweave]

There was one particular page that I quite enjoyed, mostly because it brings to light something that people never ever address: "Rape is okay when it's woman on man." It talked about how if a woman is raped in a movie by a man, said man will bite the bullet at the end. If a man is raped by a woman, we're in a wacky romantic comedy! (Wedding Crashers) Is that one gone too? I can't find it under the renamed ones.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DoubleStandardAbuseFemaleOnMale

I thank you!

 

[Hyperme]

Wait, so first peeps were complaining that TV Tropes had bad content and it was being defended via freedom of speech. But now freedom of speech is super important and TV Tropes is murdering it all over the place. You can't have it both ways. You can say that their view of freedom of speech is wrong, since it's not meant to protect immoral things or something along those lines. But you need to actually add that qualification, since otherwise it seems that it's a 'freedom of speech, but only if I agree with it thing', which is not really freedom of speech. I guess running an internet site is some kind of terrifing balencing act where any mess-up gets you throw to the stupid. Er, wolves.

Also, @'TV Tropes devalues literary criticism'. No it doesn't. You can't devalue something that already lacks objective value. If a site filled with nerds who don't care about 'Classic Novels' (which I add, are often depthless tradgedies) and would rather talk about Lady Gaga and Pokemon devalues your airy fairy excuse for intelligent subject, maybe you should of chosen a less subjective topic, like sports commetary or politics.

 

[AlexanderPeregrine]

I used to partake in TV Tropes years ago. It used to have some appeal and it still does offer a great way to find new works (useless as the analysis and presentation may be to actual critique), but I got sick of people acting irrational over absolutely everything. Now, with everything I read about about TV Tropes culture and the depths of madness large chunks of it reached, I think there has to be a witty phrase named _________'s Law/Principle to describe why it (and other often-maligned sites like deviantART and 4chan) became that way:

"As a community continues with light or no moderation, the more normal people will be driven out and replaced by the more extreme."

Related to and exacerbated by the ever-infamous Poe's Law (in that they can no longer recognize extreme exaggeration of themselves) and the Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory. If there's already something semi-official to that effect, do tell.

 

[Jabberwock xeno]

I don't think it's that something was worked out, I think the editors said "Screw this!" and started to re-build the pages because they felt it shouldn't be deleted.

 

[Zen Toombs]

Original Poster's original post

Umm, I just checked all the pages mentioned and they're all up. You may want to do some sort of update on the news post.

 

[John Funk]

Original Poster's original post

Umm, I just checked all the pages mentioned and they're all up. You may want to do some sort of update on the news post.

You mean like the update at the bottom of the post?

 

[NortherWolf]

I'm saying the gaming hobby as a whole doesn't seem to be mature enough to handle rape without an unhealthy dose of misogynistic BS served alongside it.

Thing is, maybe it's because i*m a dumb, backwater Swede...But I don't see those waves of feminism...All I see is men and women striving for equal rights, and on one end a small number of women who're political zealots, while there's a huge number of men on the other who at best seem to think. "Well, things are good now! Oh yes sireeee! All fine! LALALAAL!" Or, "Women should be fucked so that they're happy."

So you're saying to censor all of it? That's a severe overreaction.

A list of Holocaust victims is just a list. The intentions of those who use that list is altogether different. Its just like whether revealing clothing is exploitative or not. Wasn't there just a thread on that? The answer is it depends. If a female persons, on her own volition, wears such clothing because it makes her feel more attractive, then no, no exploitation occurred. You can argue the very fact that it makes her feel attractive is a social construction created to serve men by the eeEVVvilllLLlll Patriarchy or whatever dumb crap, but in the end, she voluntarily made the choice and I'm not going to tell her she can't wear what she wants.

If you really don't think gaming is a place for you, then leave gaming. Find a different hobby or don't go on public message boards. Btw, love you Scandinavian countries. Would like to live there one day; maybe when I'm retired or something haha.

Censor it all? Of course not. I'd say burn it to fucking cinders if it keeps the misogynistic bullshit up. Nerd culture is fucking awful, and sooner rather than later it must decide if it wants to keep up being Comic Book Guy coupled with frat boys or if it wants to be a mature representation of a hobby.

Revealing clothing is a choice to play on natural instincts. "Hey, I look good." Both men and women do it.. Two of my best friends tend to do it too much for my taste, but it's not evil.

I've been gaming since*considers* -87. I've spent too much of my life on gaming to simply walk away. But it's like seeing your best friend drink himself to oblivion; you just want the guy to shape up and work his shit out. Nerd culture, and especially gaming, isn't the same little basement/close circle of friends-thing it was when I grew up, and you know, people need to start realizing that.
Erh, Sweden is alright I guess. Shitty weather most of the time. Apparently we have the best pizzas in the world though. *shrugs*

 

[Erttheking]

The pages are coming back? Whew, that's good to hear, although it will be a little annoying getting used to the new names.

 

[Zen Toombs]

Original Poster's original post

Umm, I just checked all the pages mentioned and they're all up. You may want to do some sort of update on the news post.

You mean like the update at the bottom of the post?

Pretty much. Although it appears that all of the pages are reinstated, so my comment wasn't COMPLETELY without value.

 

[Schadrach]

There was one particular page that I quite enjoyed, mostly because it brings to light something that people never ever address: "Rape is okay when it's woman on man." It talked about how if a woman is raped in a movie by a man, said man will bite the bullet at the end. If a man is raped by a woman, we're in a wacky romantic comedy! (Wedding Crashers) Is that one gone too? I can't find it under the renamed ones.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DoubleStandardAbuseFemaleOnMale

I thank you!

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DoubleStandardRapeFemaleOnMale might be the one you really want. The abuse page is primarily about nonsexual violence.

 

[MB202]

This is terrible! I mean, yeah, rape is bad, but getting ride of tropes that relate to rape is NOT going to make things better or worse!