US military to allow women in direct combat

[Platypus540]

Yay, equal rights and all that. I never really understood why they couldn't fight in the first place, besides really old tradition.

 

[Platypus540]

For the first time in our history, we have come to a point in gender relations where both men and women alike can be treated as equals and have their lives destroyed to satisfy the whims of horrible wealthy people in same ways, rather than in gendered modes.

You know the US military is all volunteer, right? No one's forcing them to fight and "have their lives destroyed".

 

[Basement Cat]

In reality, I do support out armed forces, just not the people at the top nor the system of neo-liberal geopolitics that necessitates these bloody conflicts. While a strong national defense is important, and there are far fewer things quite as noble as giving up large portions of your life in service of the people, I think we do need to occasionally remind ourselves that shit flows down and that there are people at the top that might not really have our best interests in mind.)

Um...what?

As a political independent I have to ask if you're jesting. Are you referring to President Obama's policies that have driven war hawks in the GOP furious because he's refusing to drop troops on the ground in Syria just as he did in Libya and who has and continues to be focused on downgrading US military involvement throughout the middle east?

I'm very familiar with how the GOP neo-cons routinely and reflexively push for American military involvement all across the globe as a part of "Demonstrating America's strength". Most of my high school and college friends were in the military at some point as were several of my kin.

Or are you talking about some other nation?

You're joking, right?

You must be joking.

 

[bigfatcarp93]

We'e seriously only getting to this now? SHouldn't it have been like that in the first place?

Sheesh, I'm glad my generation isn't this fucking defective...

 

[Vault101]

This is bad news...
Poor gals already have it bad as it is, now some will be stuck in nowhere with a group of guys on patrol. Sexual harassment and rape will go through the roof.
I'm not personally against women in fighting roles, but the prospects are frightening.

general sexual harrasment and such is to be expected..but rape?

give your gender some credit..PLEASE

 

[Zyst]

You do know the gear weighs around 90kg counting Ammo, rifle, gun, supplies, etc... and that you have to carry it for long distances at times? Also the death or injury of a female soldier or civilian has a greater psychological effect on surrounding combatants and is likely to cause rash actions.

In times of great struggle where male population is reaching a critical point I would understand but otherwise it seems widely unnecessary. Besides there's going to be obvious issues of sexism and sexual harassment. Oh well, lets see how it pans out.

I do think women can and should be able to fight for their country, lets just hope the benefits outweigh the cons.

 

[TheIronRuler]

This is bad news...
Poor gals already have it bad as it is, now some will be stuck in nowhere with a group of guys on patrol. Sexual harassment and rape will go through the roof.
I'm not personally against women in fighting roles, but the prospects are frightening.

general sexual harrasment and such is to be expected..but rape?

give your gender some credit..PLEASE

.
I am my gender. I know people in the army. This happens, and there's often the abuse of power involved. Having a bunch of guys and a few women in a squad away from base doing patrols in red zones for weeks will get ugly at some point or another.

eee, you can deny it. You know what? If you deny it, don't quote this message. Because if you do, I don't want to follow up on that.

 

[Easton Dark]

It wasn't this way already? Jesus, talk about lagging behind in terms of equal rights.

I was surprised as well.

I know women who've killed while in the military, and I assumed they were troops on the front line. Guess I was wrong.

Besides there's going to be obvious issues of sexism and sexual harassment. Oh well, lets see how it pans out.

The best way to handle those is not to ignore it and keep woman jobs separate from mens. That's the problem.

The solution is to start integrating. The sooner we do, the less of a problem these will be sooner.

 

[Vault101]

ot: this sounds like progress until you realize that sexism exists in the military.

well duh....I wouldnt be surprised if there wasnt any sexism


[quote/]you should of heard our Senior DS on women, specifically marriage, he himself on his fifth.

hell, even our Cadre had horror stories of women in general, and these were just Scouts, Im sure the 11's and kilo's have their own.[/quote]
what do you mean? just sounds like personal storys...as in not relevant to the job

I'm also not liking some of the assumptions your making here

[quote/]I'll be going back once my shoulder gets better, but after going through 19D OSUT, I dont think women could handle it.

Im not trying to sound sexist, we had grown ass men have mental breakdowns due to how mentally tough and draining it was. The Drill Sergeants give no shits about you, unless you are National Guard, then they will make fun of you to no end.[/quote]
...well duh, thats the army isnt it? why wouldn't a women be able to handle that? I mean they should ptobably know thats what they are getting into


[quote/]Dont get me started on how they would be able to handle the 30 second shower drills either, that lasted us about 5 weeks.[/quote]
whats so awful about 30 second show drills? do they make you bathe in bleach or somthing?

 

[Vault101]

.
I am my gender. I know people in the army. This happens, and there's often the abuse of power involved. Having a bunch of guys and a few women in a squad away from base doing patrols in red zones for weeks will get ugly at some point or another.

eee, you can deny it. You know what? If you deny it, don't quote this message. Because if you do, I don't want to follow up on that.

I can't deny it due to lack of scources/knowelege on the topic

I just....it just kind of disturbed me that "people"..."normal people/men" can turn into rapists just because they are out on a tour of duty, on their own friggen squad...I mean I know solders do questionable things but....this one baffles me

is there a history of man on man rape at all?

 

[sextus the crazy]

* How did the ACLU actually justify those arguments? My military ignorance showing here, but how does being barred from front line combat duty prevent promotion?

for the same reason, you wouldn't hire people with no job experience to run anything. See how combat is one of the most important functions of the US military, having experience in combat is almost always necessary for a position in high command (unless the country hasn't been in a war recently e.g. switzerland).

Not to mention, that combat provides glory to commanders, which is pretty handy for rising in the ranks.

the military uses a point system, i.e. you need x amount of points and pass the interview board to be considered for promotion.


example of how it works

you are a Specialist 19D Calvary scout, your next promotion will put you as a NCO [sergeant and above]
I was talking about the officer core. I'm very aware that it's possible that you can become a high ranking NCO, CO w/o combat experience; proving oneself in combat is very attractive for officer promotions.
the unit you are in has room for about 34 people to be promoted to sergeant.

[at the time] you need 39 points [low for any mos, most of the time its 700+ points for a e-5 promotion]

you pass your re qualification for your weapons, pass your bi-annual PT test [max that shit, yo, 300 and the APFT badge, aren't you a pt beast], and have a couple of degree's in your pocket.

you get ready for your board, you need to know your MOS's creed, the NCO creed, the soldiers creed, various questions from nearly everything you could think of, from your weapons specifications, to the distance various ribbons, medals, and name plates have to be on your Class-A's/B's.

you pass that shit like a boss.

now you get put in a promotion line, when promotions are handed out, you can either get it or not, even if you meet all the qualifications based on your commanders discretion. you could qualify for the promotion twenty times over and if the commander thins you are a shit bag, you will be a specialist for a while.


however, e-shit to e-4 are all automatic promotions, all you need is TIG/TIS.

everything past e-4 requires a promotion board, o-1 and higher requires a commission from the POTUS as does w-1 to w-5 [though I have only ever seen one Chief Warrant Officer 5, I hear they only come out at a full moon when the planets are aligned. and only if you have enough coffee]


so, no, battle =/= promotions!, its all based on what the Branch and unit needs at the moment, and you are going up against everyone else that is promotable, so you have to know your shit. one of my DS's still had his e-5 promotion board cheat sheet he used to study, damn thing was nearly as long as the collective works of Tolkien, printed front and back, and still used it for his SFC board.

I was talking about the officer core. Having experience managing a large unit in combat is attractive for the competitive general ranks.

 

[HellbirdIV]

No stupid "Conservative" comments yet about how "Wimmenz just arent as good at fightin as men" and "Its a legitimate restriction for the safety of teh soldiers"? Curious, I expected a lot more of that.

Maybe I'm early, or maybe the recent gun discussions left me with a poor impression of the Escapist's politically conservative American posters.

Either way, I think this is one of those "Well duh" changes. Just like allowing blacks to serve, you'd think that a country founded (allegedly) on the idea that "All [persons] are created equal" would have been a lot quicker to legislate for equal opportunity, especially in military service. Maybe if they had allowed any national of age to volunteer they wouldn't have needed to draft soldiers in the 20th century bush wars?

the Mk 19 destroyed some people (specifically, I hate this weapon, there is no fucking use for a automatic grenade machine gun other than 'see that guy? fuck him and everyone around him.', seriously want to know what the idiots in the Navy were thinking when they designed it)

I imagine they were thinking exactly that. "See that thing over there? Fuck it. FUCK IT WITH FIRE!"

Now I'm not a soldier by any stretch of the imagination, but I figure the ability to carpet-bomb a huge area with boom-booms in a matter of seconds has quite a few tactical uses when there's no time for dedicated fire support.

 

[MPerce]

Hurray. A step in the right direction.

It doesn't solve the rampant problem of sexual harassment in the US military, but it's a start. Maybe having to trust your life to a woman will help break that culture down.

Guess we'll find out.

 

[TheIronRuler]

.
I am my gender. I know people in the army. This happens, and there's often the abuse of power involved. Having a bunch of guys and a few women in a squad away from base doing patrols in red zones for weeks will get ugly at some point or another.

eee, you can deny it. You know what? If you deny it, don't quote this message. Because if you do, I don't want to follow up on that.

I can't deny it due to lack of scources/knowelege on the topic

I just....it just kind of disturbed me that "people"..."normal people/men" can turn into rapists just because they are out on a tour of duty, on their own friggen squad...I mean I know solders do questionable things but....this one baffles me

is there a history of man on man rape at all?

.
It is unbelievably under-reported, but yes. It does occur. I also understand why nobody would want to say a word. Again, power (either rank or seniority) is involved.

 

[the clockmaker]

the Mk 19 destroyed some people [specifically, I hate this weapon, there is no fucking use for a automatic grenade machine gun other than 'see that guy? fuck him and everyone around him.', seriously want to know what the idiots in the Navy were thinking when they designed it]

probably the same thing that most people who I know that operate it think 'fuck yeah, lets fuck that guy and everyone around him up'

to top it all off, we had people fail, fail the 249 dis-assembly and reassembly because they took the entire thing apart.

you cant shouldn't take apart the feed tray cover, yet somehow, some way, we had people do it, and fail it.

Holy shit that is the greatest thing I have ever heard, we never had anything like that.

as I said in my other post, good to see it, but there are too many problems already that would need to be addressed before anything solid could or should be done.

My real concern is that fifteen years from now, when women make up about five to ten percent of the infantry and one percent of special forces, we will have demands for those communities to open up and become more 'inclusive' toward female personnel. The army will then turn the core training/selection process for those trades into a dog and pony show to ensure that they are seen to be including female personnel even if it means taking soldiers who cannot perform their duties.

 

[Your Gaffer]

You don't have to be 200lbs and 6' to pull a trigger.

 

[crimson sickle2]

I see no reason to not go for it as long as standards remain equal. They're also going to need to work on some of the sexist portions of attitude and discipline within each division of course.