US supreme Court decision, it's not all doom and gloom. A UK lesson. It's all about retaillers....

[ph0b0s123]

While we are waiting for the Supreme court to decide if video games are art or porn. I wanted to post something positive. And that is that even if things don't go our way, it does not mean the end of the world. The reason I say this is that in my native UK, we have had the system you may have to go to in place for a long time. In the UK games and movies are certified by an independent body and given age ratings. These ratings are enforced by law.

So you would think that's terrible and you cannot buy games and movies with higher certifications anywhere. And that is the difference. I can go to my local version of Walmart and get an 18 certificate video game or movie. I don't have to go to special room or speak to staff in hushed, embarrassed tones. They are there on the shelf mixed in with the other titles that have all type of other certificates. I just may be asked for ID when I take the title to the counter.

So this post was just to say that if the decision does not go our way, it is not the end. If US retailers step up and have as much balls as UK retailers, it should not be very painful and won't constitute too big a change.

So I tihnk my main point is that in the end, if adult orientated games disapear, it is not the fault of the Court or even mis-guided lawmakers who's hearts are in the right place. It will be the fault of the retaillers for not having the balls to sell the games.

 

[Galaxy613]

We know that, or at least ones who actually stop and think about it know that. It's just the principle. A 10 year old can buy R-rated movies or mature novels no problem at the local Walmart last I recall. Yet people are singling out video games for some federally mandated restrictions? It's already annoying enough to get a ESRP rating, I doubt it'll be any easier when the American Government sticks it's hand into it.

I would be behind a federally mandated ID-check for Mature and higher games, if they considered doing the same for movies and books.

 

[Oirish_Martin]

I'm not getting what the difference here is - in the US, the age ratings are not legally binding? I.e. you'll risk ire from concerned parents, family action groups etc. if you sell adult content to young people but you won't get in trouble with the law?

 

[Lorenzo Alexander]

I'm more than certain that the ratings are legal binding.

What's in dispute here is whether or not the government or the industry takes over these ratings themselves.

The question is who gets to regulate games an NGO or a GO?

 

['The Eel']

That is correct. Pretty much all stores have a policy to not sell M-rated games to minors though (I myself, a 19 year old, had to bring my mother into gamestop just the other day to buy Nier, since my student ID doesnt have my birthdate on it)

 

[RoBi3.0]

We know that, or at least ones who actually stop and think about it know that. It's just the principle. A 10 year old can buy R-rated movies or mature novels no problem at the local Walmart last I recall. Yet people are singling out video games for some federally mandated restrictions? It's already annoying enough to get a ESRP rating, I doubt it'll be any easier when the American Government sticks it's hand into it.

I would be behind a federally mandated ID-check for Mature and higher games, if they considered doing the same for movies and books.

You are techinically correct it would be completely legal for a kid to go to Wal-mart and buy a R-rated movie. The thing is Wal-mart wont sell that kid the R-rated moive because they have standard that they fallow. For want it is worth they wont sell a kid am M rate game either no reputable retailer will. Hell I am a balding 27 year old and got carded last week at gamestop while trying to buy Assassins Creed 2.

That is why I oppose these kinds of laws. They will not achieve the goal they set out to accomplish. Shady johnny isn't going to stop selling mature games to kids out the the back of his van because it is now "illegal" Shady people in general don't give two shits about the law.

Besides the majority of mature games are not falling into the hands of children because shady retail. Kids are getting them because their parents are buying the game for them.

If the Government really wants to address this issue they need to make it illegal for companies to market Mature game to children. (I am looking at you Dead Space 2). What would go much further then that would be to spend some government money on increasing awareness on what the ESRB ratings are and mean.

 

[Epic Fail 1977]

I'm more than certain that the ratings are legal binding.

What's in dispute here is whether or not the government or the industry takes over these ratings themselves.

The question is who gets to regulate games an NGO or a GO?

I didn't know that. So all this fuss is just about the bit in bold? Extra Credits got their knickers in a twist over that?

Anyway, personally I'd love it if R-rated games really did only get sold to adults. Then maybe the industry would start making them for adults, which would be awesome.

 

[RoBi3.0]

I'm more than certain that the ratings are legal binding.

What's in dispute here is whether or not the government or the industry takes over these ratings themselves.

The question is who gets to regulate games an NGO or a GO?

I didn't know that. So all this fuss is just about the bit in bold? Extra Credits got their knickers in a twist over that?

Anyway, personally I'd love it if R-rated games really did only get sold to adults. Then maybe the industry would start making them for adults, which would be awesome.

You did not know that because he is wrong there is nothing legally binding about a ESRB game rating.

From the ESRB web site

What is the ESRB?

The Entertainment Software Rating Board (ESRB) is a non-profit, self-regulatory body established in 1994 by the Entertainment Software Association (ESA), formerly known as the Interactive Digital Software Association (IDSA). ESRB assigns computer and video game content ratings, enforces industry-adopted advertising guidelines and helps ensure responsible online privacy practices for the interactive entertainment software industry.

Are all games required to have a rating?

The rating system is voluntary, although virtually all games that are sold at retail in the U.S. and Canada are rated by the ESRB. Many retailers, including most major chains, have policies to only stock or sell games that carry an ESRB rating, and most console manufacturers will only permit games that have been rated by ESRB to be published for their platforms.

 

[Meggiepants]

I'm more than certain that the ratings are legal binding.

What's in dispute here is whether or not the government or the industry takes over these ratings themselves.

The question is who gets to regulate games an NGO or a GO?

I'm more than certain you are wrong, otherwise librarians all over the country would be arrested. We check out materials with ratings of R or M in the case of video games all the time to minors. There is no law stating it is illegal to do so. The Supreme Court recognizes film and books to be protected under the first amendment - if I recall my Constitutional Law courses from college correctly.

This type of misinformation shouldn't be spread about. Ratings are voluntarily placed on these mediums by private organizations, not by any government agency.

OT: As to whether or not it will affect sales, who knows what the gaming industry will decide to do. As it stands, the court seems to be in favor of striking the law down, based on the court analysts I've heard speak on it. It's a bit too vague and far reaching. Courts don't tend to like vague.

 

[ph0b0s123]

The thread was more about discussing what happens if the decision does not go our way. Of course the whole idea of the law is stupid. But if it goes badly I thought the 'conventional wisdom' was that retailers would stop selling mature titles. My whole point was that as the UK example show, this does not have to be the case.

 

[Sir_Auron_the_Badass]

While you are mostly correct OP, the law the Supreme Court is debating on entails a bit more that we as gamers SHOULD be concerned about if they happen to pass it.

Perhaps the biggest issue with this law is that it threatens to take away video games' right of protection under the 1st Amendment. That might not seem like such a big issue if you're not from the U.S., but if it loses that protection, it basically becomes an open target to anti video game activists looking for a chance to take a shot at our entertainment medium for just about anything.

Another thing that is a concern is that if the law passes, video games will have to be regulated through the government (and if it comes to that, you know it will not be a friendly running it). That means it will be up to them, not an unbiased middle-man, to decide how "deviant" the game is.