Using long dead characters in the new smash bros

[verdant monkai]

Smash Bros is kind of like Nintendo's retirement home. Old characters (some with no games for over a decade) live there. It must be great for fans of these characters but also kind of heart wrenching, to know that this is all that is left of their beloved character. I mean, should Nintendo be allowed to use character that haven't seen a game in over ten years? I have tried to find their actual original art from back when they their own game, it really shows heir age.

This poor bastards last game was on the GBA in 2004.

Ike was last in Fire Emblem radiant Dawn (awakening too if you count DLC) and that was 7 years ago. (Marth doesn't really count as he was in some 2010 DS game the Japs couldn't be asked to send us, cheers Intelligent systems...)

I wont get anyone started.

So smooth looking... Ahem. I think everyone would like to see something sensible done with starfox (a remake on the 3ds doesnt count). 8 years with no game is poor.


I mostly blame you Mario fans. You eat up that plumbers monotonous pipe hopping repeats, so Nintendo lives mostly off of that because they take no effort to come up with. And characters like Fox and Falcon are left to rot. Think I'm joking? Miyamoto has already said he cant see a point to another F-Zero http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/news/32370/miyamoto-shares-thoughts-on-wii-u-f-zero-metroid Zelda fans like myself are also to be blamed for the lack of fantasy adventure games to be fair.

My point is do you think its bad that these characters only exist in smash now? They have these awesome looking character models now, why not do something with them?

 

[Pizzarand]

The Thing is all these characters you mention aren't really that awesome or special. Sure they were good at the time, but any new game for them would be made for the same reason we currently have only Mario and Zelda games, cashing in on the nostalgia of people who grew up with those characters. Mario and Zelda have just a bigger draw.

Where you are right though is that Nintendo really shouldn't remake the same games over and over and, instead focus on coming up with totally new games with new mechanics and characters and whatnot. Sadly, that doesn't seem to be their business strategy, at least at the moment. Still, making a game just so old characters can be seen again would be a waste of a game(However I'd be down with attaching a new game to an existing IP to make it less of a risk á la StarFox Adventure).

 

[MysticSlayer]

I mostly blame you Mario fans. You eat up that plumbers monotonous pipe hopping repeats, so Nintendo lives mostly off of that because they take no effort to come up with. And characters like Fox and Falcon are left to rot.

Fox's problems exist almost solely with missteps from Nintendo and the fans' reactions to practically everything Star Fox related since Star Fox 64 and has almost nothing to do with the success of Mario. Star Fox Adventures was pretty much reviled by most Star Fox fans for being nothing like an actual Star Fox game, and then Assault got reviled for...reasons. I've literally heard fans complain that it was too short and then praise Star Fox 64 for being very short. Then Command was only further criticized. At this point, it seems the only thing a lot of Star Fox fans would enjoy is a redone Star Fox 64, which already exists on the 3DS.

With all that said, though, they have already announced that a new Star Fox game is in the making for the Wii U and Miyamoto was seen playing it in a video released during E3, so Fox isn't completely dead yet. Good thing, too, because I have no plans of buying a WiiU until I can get more than Mario and Zelda, and Star Fox would go a long way to convincing me to get the new console.

Think I'm joking? Miyamoto has already said he cant see a point to another F-Zero http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/news/32370/miyamoto-shares-thoughts-on-wii-u-f-zero-metroid

Miyamoto has actually been giving that explanation for years now. I actually think that was the same reason he gave around the time that the Wii released.

It's sort of ironic, though to hear that as the explanation now. Mario may never have moved far from the same basic platforming except for in the occasional spin-off, but at least back when he started giving this explanation Mario was still finding ways to mix up the formula a bit, such as in Galaxy. Now that so many games like Galaxy 2 and New Super Mario Bros. 2 are at most just enjoyable expansions to their predecessors, I would really hope that they can at least realize that not innovating much on F-Zero isn't too different to what they are doing with Mario, but as a huge F-Zero fan, I personally wouldn't mind having even a minor refinement if it means getting to learn a new set of tracks and racers again.

My point is do you think its bad that these characters only exist in smash now? They have these awesome looking character models now, why not do something with them?

I sort of just hope that Smash reminds people to pester Nintendo for these characters in their own games again. Pit's appearance and popularity in Brawl probably had a huge impact on him getting his first game in years, and you could probably even argue that Fire Emblem has been partially kept alive by the popularity of Marth and the other characters in Smash Bros.

Even if it doesn't keep beloved franchises alive, though, at the very least, it is nice to be able to play as these characters again despite it not being a game from their own franchise.

 

[Hivetyrant7]

Wasn't a Starfox game announced recently for the WiiU?

 

[Hero of Lime]

Well to be honest, I don't think they know what to do with them at this point, especially F-Zero. You could just make an HD F-Zero on Wii U, but understandably, they would worry that people may not be interested. Plus, I don't trust Nintendo's marketing team to sell F Zero to the gaming public very well. I am a huge Nintendo fan, but I have little to no interest in a new F Zero myself. Granted I am just one person, but the die hard F Zero fans just aren't numerous enough for Nintendo to justify investing in a new release. I'm not saying they should not make one, it would be nice to have F Zero revamped for Wii U or 3DS, but from their perspective, they may see it as a meaningless effort.

Star Fox is possibly on its way back however, and they said they wanted it out by E3 next year. Now I highly doubt that will happen, but they obviously want to drum up interest in Star Fox again. The way I see it, if Nintendo really wants to bring a series back from the dead, they will try their best to do so. If they don't, they will just keep it dormant for a long time.

I just hope we can see Metroid come back soon myself, if Kid Icarus could make a return after almost two decades, I think an esteemed series like Metroid could bounce back a lot sooner.

 

[Something Amyss]

Wasn't a Starfox game announced recently for the WiiU?

I thought it was just "hinted at."

Either way, Smash Brothers seems like it might be a decent tool for promoting a new game for characters in it.

 

[VyseRogueKing]

Ike was last in Fire Emblem radiant Dawn (awakening too if you count DLC) and that was 7 years ago. (Marth doesn't really count as he was in some 2010 DS game the Japs couldn't be asked to send us, cheers Intelligent systems...)

But... Shadow Dragon came out in America and Marth is the main character. Which also is Marth's first american released game. Plus unless a fire emblem takes place in the same universe/timeframe the all the characters change. In a series with 13 games this happens A LOT. Ike is a fan favorite in general and Marth is OG. Plus it was Smash that made FE popular in America. So their appearance actually spurred MORE games. So you can't fault them from showing up.

Megaman is Capcom's fault and even though there are spin-offs there are still technically Megaman games and even then his most recent classic title came out in 2010. Not millenia ago.

Star Fox kind of has a a problem cause of their experimentation in adventures and on which weren't that well received. Even so it seems it's poised for a comeback.

Falcon is an odd one as it's weird that a racing game character made it into the first smash. But he's a fan-favorite simply by being in smash itself with his signature FALCON PAWNCH! *cough* He's even more famous because of it than his actual games. This is coming from an avid F-Zero fan.

Why blame Mario fans for enjoying a game? Mario is a popular series and so it keeps getting made. Other series aren't as popular. Sure it may not be as crazy innovative in comparison to sunshine and galaxy but before the 3d era it could be said that it was doing the same thing over and over again.

Awesome character models does not make a game. Hell in F-Zero GX Falcon only appeared outside his vehicle in cgi cutscenes and the interview segment after winning a championship. The most important thing in F-Zero, since you would always be looking at it, is the machine. plus If anything his model would have to be dialed back because there would have to be 30+ machines and racers. The only reason the smash models look so good is because it's a fighting game which puts it's resources into said models.

Is it a retirement home? I don't think so. It just brings those characters back to the forefront which may generate enough hype for a new game. At the very least it draws together fans of multiple series.

 

[Elijin]

Iconic =/= recent.

Which brings up the debate of whether some of these characters are iconic to start with. Which, by merit of being in Smash Bros repeatedly, they have become iconic anyway. Catch 22!

Its also nit picking, lots of other characters in the series are aged counterparts or just as neglected, you're obviously not bothered by this by personal preference though.

 

[Guffe]

I think the character age doesn't matter.
I mean CaptainF is one of the best characters, according to me. He has speed, is good at close combat and has both fast and powerful attacks in his movepool.

Also Nintendo has released several statments that they usually, when making a game, first make up the story and universe, after that they create the characters. For example the first Zelda title was meant to be a Mario game, but after the lore was set they decided they had to make new characters all together.
Splatoon was also thought to MAYBE (big maybe) be a Mario game, but they got better ideas later on.

So when they made the worlds and lore to the Operation Rainfall games (Xenoblade, LastStory and PandorasTower), if those games would've suited one of these older characters very well, it might be one of those would not have been a new IP, but rather a new part in an already excisting series.

I liked the GameCube StarFox games, but not many others shared that with me. That's the main reason he hasn't had a game in a while!

So back to the actual question.
It's not wrong in using old characters, especially if they suit the game as well as CaptainF and Fox.
Then again Mr. Game&Watch could go into a dark hole at the end of the universe, should not be a part of the smash series in my opinion.

 

[verdant monkai]

Three things:

1) "Jap" is a slur. Has been for decades. Don't use it.

2) We did get a Fire Emblem game with Marth. Shadow Dragon. It sucked.

3) Not only is Ike a fan-favourite in Smash Broke Brawl, but he is the only character in the Fire Emblem universe to have been the protagonist in two inter-connected titles within the entire series, let alone the few that were released in North America and Europe. He makes more sense to be the Fire Emblem representative than any other character, or at least in versions outside the US. If you haven't noticed, they actually gave the Ike in WiiU/3DS Smash an update, and made him the Vanguard class that he is in Radiant Dawn. To me, that hints that he may not be present in the next Smash game (which is, what, seven years from now?)

1. "Jap" isn't a slur its an abbreviation of Japanese. It is a bit over familiar and you wouldn't use it to refer to someone you just met, but its just like calling a British person a Brit an American a Yank or someone from Denmark a Dane. Just because you aren't Caucasian doesn't mean you have immunity from having your nationality abbreviated. Also its shorter to type than The Japanese.

2. I should have clarified I wasn't counting remakes. I did mention Starfox 3D but I should have clarified.

3. He is a famous character. So what? Thats got nothing to do with my original question. It doesn't change the fact Nintendo hasn't done much with him in quite a while now. Fire Emblem characters should sort of get a free pass I guess, as Fire Emblem is a aeries and it would suck if they kept bringing out games with the same characters over and over again. I guess this post is mostly talking about falcon Fox and Megaman. Rather than Marth and Ike, as Robin and Luciana are bringing them back into the spotlight.

 

[Kyber]

Ike was last in Fire Emblem radiant Dawn (awakening too if you count DLC) and that was 7 years ago. (Marth doesn't really count as he was in some 2010 DS game the Japs couldn't be asked to send us, cheers Intelligent systems...)

"Jap" is a slur. Has been for decades. Don't use it.

How is it a slur? It's short for Japanese, same way Gerry is short for German, Brit is short for Brittish, Swede is short for Swedish, and the list goes on. Most Japanese people I know don't take offense to that.

 

[fix-the-spade]

and then Assault got reviled for...reasons.

The third person shooting sections, mother of god were they terrible. If the game simply hadn't had them it would have been much better.

A new Starfox game is on the way, but apparently Miyamoto has decided to decouple the aiming of the guns from the movement of the ship and instead have you aim with the tablet screen. It might work, but I think Miyamoto might be going a little bit senile, initial reports from the E3 conference have been mixed.

 

[Adamantium93]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Marth heavily mentioned in the most recent fire emblem, and aren't both he and Ike available as dlc characters for that game?


Also, better question: so what?

Not every franchise lasts forever. When was the last Game and Watch game? How about the last Ice Climbers or R.O.B. release? Smash Bros isn't about selling Nintendo's most popular characters at time of release. Its about gathering them from across Nintendo's long history and bringing together matchups that would never happen.

And I dont think Nintendo is ignoring its other franchises in favor of Mario. I think most of those franchises have waned in popularity and they're debating whether they should resuscitate the series or try something new. Like I said, not every franchise will last forever.

 

[lapan]

Isn't half the point of Smash Brothers a sort of All Time Hall of Fame rooster of Nintendo characters?

If recent games were really the only reason we wouldn't have Mr Game&Watch, Rob or Pacman

 

[JagermanXcell]

Yup, Smash is basically made as an archive but with punching. That's where half the charm comes from.

So does that mean they can hurry up and add literally long dead characters like... idk... Rundas?

 

[WhiteTigerShiro]

1. "Jap" isn't a slur its an abbreviation of Japanese. It is a bit over familiar and you wouldn't use it to refer to someone you just met, but its just like calling a British person a Brit an American a Yank or someone from Denmark a Dane. Just because you aren't Caucasian doesn't mean you have immunity from having your nationality abbreviated. Also its shorter to type than The Japanese.

The difference is that we didn't recently round-up the "Brits" or the "Yanks" and put them in internment camps just in case they might have been spies. Anyway, back on topic:

Captain Falcon: The F-Zero games, while having a loyal fanbase, just haven't been profitable for Nintendo.

Ike: Very few Fire Emblem characters get more than a couple games focused around them, some get only one.

Fox: While I don't know as much about the Starfox series, I would wager that it has the same problem as F-Zero.

So my question to the OP is this: Would you rather that Nintendo just full-on purge these characters and only include characters that were used in the past X years in Smash Bros? Yeah sure, fine, I guess it's "Nintendo's retirement home", but was there any greater purpose for this topic than to bring-up that analogy?

 

[VyseRogueKing]

1. "Jap" isn't a slur its an abbreviation of Japanese.

It is a slur, a fairly big one, specifically because of America's WWII internment camps and us being terrified that happy perfectly normal citizens would suddenly defect the moment war started. When we used the word it basically meant they can't be trusted and are future traitors.

2. I should have clarified I wasn't counting remakes. I did mention Starfox 3D but I should have clarified.

Then by that logic the japanese game about Marth you mentioned shouldn't have popped up because that is a remake as well. Just a bit of a nitpick.

3. He is a famous character. So what? Thats got nothing to do with my original question. It doesn't change the fact Nintendo hasn't done much with him in quite a while now. Fire Emblem characters should sort of get a free pass I guess, as Fire Emblem is a aeries and it would suck if they kept bringing out games with the same characters over and over again. I guess this post is mostly talking about falcon Fox and Megaman. Rather than Marth and Ike, as Robin and Luciana are bringing them back into the spotlight.

Last true Megaman game came out in 2010 like I said before and even then it's not Nintendo's biz to have him in the limelight, that's Capcom's. Fox is probably making a comeback. But are you saying that because Robin and Lucina are there then it's ok for Ike and Marth to comeback? Because what would've happened if Awakening sucked major donkey dick? Those two wouldn't have showed up and the previous Fire Emblem reps wouldn't have a recent character in the roster making them "less relevant." Hell ROY might have even come back! Would you still have given them the free pass?

Why are you saying instead of famous characters we should go with recent characters? Or rather it's sad to see that all they have are this game. That's incredibly cynical and close-minded. Fame is more important in this series because fans are gonna want to play that guy regardless of whether or not they've had a game in a while. Why would F-Zero fans not play this game simply because there hasn't been a new F-Zero? Star Fox?

As long as they are still in the public conscience whether or not they are old shouldn't matter. In fact it's BETTER they reappear in Smash simply because it'll renew that image and make people want more.