Valve Officially Condemns Steam Item Gambling

[Pseudonym]

My first thought when reading this was more or less:

Congratulations Valve, you literally did the least you could do.

However, I am a firm believer in clumsiness over malice, so I wonder. Could it be that valve is just rather understaffed and doesn't really have the manpower to pay attention to these sort of things. That would explain a lot of things. It would have been far easier to stop this early before it became a scandal and before lawsuits got involved. Maybe they thought this would make them money and that they could get away with it. (how exactly they make money of this is not entirely clear to me, though)

Maybe the reason that they won't develop half-life 3, won't curate their storefront, won't pay attention to shit like this, etc is because they don't want to hire more people, even though they could and probably should. I know that this is all entirely speculative. I haven't the foggiest what goes on at valve but I expect that their general hands off, slow approach to things is not entirely calculated cynicism and also just plain incompetence of some variety.

 

[Infernal Lawyer]

My first thought when reading this was more or less:

Congratulations Valve, you literally did the least you could do.

However, I am a firm believer in clumsiness over malice, so I wonder. Could it be that valve is just rather understaffed and doesn't really have the manpower to pay attention to these sort of things. That would explain a lot of things. It would have been far easier to stop this early before it became a scandal and before lawsuits got involved. Maybe they thought this would make them money and that they could get away with it. (how exactly they make money of this is not entirely clear to me, though)

Maybe the reason that they won't develop half-life 3, won't curate their storefront, won't pay attention to shit like this, etc is because they don't want to hire more people, even though they could and probably should. I know that this is all entirely speculative. I haven't the foggiest what goes on at valve but I expect that their general hands off, slow approach to things is not entirely calculated cynicism and also just plain incompetence of some variety.

It would certainly explain things if Valve were understaffed, yes.

It would also, however, beg the question "Why is one of the biggest, most profitable and most far-reaching game companies in the world being run by a skeleton crew?"

The answer is simple: "we're making a shit-ton of money and people will forgive us for anything, so why the hell not". It's not clumsiness so much as deliberate negligence.

 

[Vigormortis]

Let's go through the checklist:

A Bogos-written news article on the Escapist? Check.
Article involves a topic related to Valve? Check.
Article makes a vague statement about the topic but leaves out MANY critical details? Check.

Oooh, boy. We've hit all three. We're primed for a lot of hyperbolic yelling and gnashing of teeth. Will that pan out?

Yep! It certainly did.

Never change, Escapist.

Granted, I could attempt to explain to everyone how this public statement likely involves the recent CS:GO:LOTTO fiasco. I could also explain how Valve's been actively pursuing these issues for some time now, and only made this public statement recently because of recent dissemination of misinformation. I could even explain how this move is beneficial for Valve and the community. But, I'm not sure anything I say would be heard over the din, so I'll just say that I'm glad Valve is finally stepping up and taking action, and then I'll take my leave of this thread.

I'm still gambling with my friend mano a mano over show outcomes. And by gamble I mean lose terribly to.

Fite me Valve.

They might've, but if you lose that frequently it's probably punishment enough.

 

[Cid Silverwing]

So why is it that Valve is allowed to push crates and keys which is LITERALLY gambling, but other people aren't allowed to have websites that let you gamble your items away?

I ask because this is starting to stink of Valve trying to stamp out the gambling competition rather than actually do something ethical. If they want to win REALLY major points with their customers, Valve will drop the cancer that is crates and keys.

Fucking hypocrites. Can never get away from them no matter where you go.

 

[thethain]

So why is it that Valve is allowed to push crates and keys which is LITERALLY gambling, but other people aren't allowed to have websites that let you gamble your items away?

I agree. Why is valves slot machine gambling OK while the other sites e-sports betting not? Any reason that the key/crate slot machine would be legal/illegal is equally valid for gambling on match outcomes.

 

[Leg End]

They might've, but if you lose that frequently it's probably punishment enough.

I'll let myself be the one who determines if I've been punished enough by my own stupidity, thank you very much!

[double post]

Don't think I'm not onto you and your attempts to impersonate said friend in order to beat me and get free things!

It's a conspiracy!

 

[The Great JT]

Took them this long to condemn it, huh?

 

[Xorph]

So why is it that Valve is allowed to push crates and keys which is LITERALLY gambling, but other people aren't allowed to have websites that let you gamble your items away?

I agree. Why is valves slot machine gambling OK while the other sites e-sports betting not? Any reason that the key/crate slot machine would be legal/illegal is equally valid for gambling on match outcomes.

Actually, no. Crates have something that gambling doesn't: Guaranteed payout. You spend that $2.50 for a key and you're guaranteed -something-, wheras if you bet your skins on these gambling sites you've got good odds you're going to lose them and see nothing in return. When there's a 100% chance of a payout, however minor it may be, it's not gambling anymore, hence why you've got stuff like Pachinko machines in Japan (where gambling is illegal).

 

[Mr.Mattress]

So why is it that Valve is allowed to push crates and keys which is LITERALLY gambling, but other people aren't allowed to have websites that let you gamble your items away?

I agree. Why is valves slot machine gambling OK while the other sites e-sports betting not? Any reason that the key/crate slot machine would be legal/illegal is equally valid for gambling on match outcomes.

Actually, no. Crates have something that gambling doesn't: Guaranteed payout. You spend that $2.50 for a key and you're guaranteed -something-

I'm sorry, that's not true. As someone who's played TF2 a lot, most of the time you open crates, you get simple weapons you can get for free, can't trade for anything worthwhile, and can't sell via the Steam Market. Other crates, especially holiday themed crates, can give you items that are either less then the value of the Key itself, or cannot be traded or sold at all. You're guaranteed nothing by opening crates, which is why I usually avoid opening crates.

Because their chests aren't really gambling.

Yes, they are, especially when they look like this [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebhPPgs1p-E].

 

[Mr.Mattress]

Yes, they are, especially when they look like this [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebhPPgs1p-E].

Refer to my previous comment.

But I should correct myself. Crates are ?1.50 for ?1.50 worth of items (plus possible bonus) which are available on the marketplace for cheap since they've been devalued by whales buying absolute hoards of the boxes in search of the rare drops.

I'm not too sure about CS:GO's crate system, but on TF2, Crates are free, while the Keys costs $2.99. For $3, the fact that most of the time you'll end up getting something that's either <$3, or worth $0, with only the slight chance of getting something worth over $3, does indeed make crates a gamble; a small gamble, sure, but a gamble none the less. I'm certain that Crates in CS:GO are cheap, but how much are CS:GO's keys worth? What are the chances of getting an item that is worth more then $1.50+The Keys cost?

Sure, they aren't as big a gamble as actual Steam Gambling sites, but regardless of whether the gamble is worth $3 or $200, it's all still gambling!

 

[thethain]

Kibeth41 point is you get *something* basically that you can put up a slot machine if it is guaranteed to at least hand out cracker jack prizes every time. (even if the only reason anyone is actually playing is the 1/100000 chance of getting a big pile of money) As long as you can look the other way and say "Oh yeah, they are paying a dollar for some stickers, 87 times in a row" you are in the clear.

 

[Callate]

It's worth remembering that Valve has about 330 employees. Compare that with EA (8,500) or Activision (9,000) or even Blizzard alone (4,700). It's easy to forget that, given Valve/Steam's enormous influence within the industry.

But consider the ridiculous level of difficulty those other companies have had on occasion with networking issues of a single game like Diablo III or SimCity.

I think there's an argument to be made that most of Valve's recent problems can be related to a "hands off" approach not merely chosen but necessitated by its relatively small size. Whereas a larger company could throw a dozen moderators at a social problem or form a significant sub-committee to brainstorm ideas on how to resolve it, Valve can't just throw manpower at an issue at will. Not without a significant change of corporate culture.

Now, all of this said, I don't mean to let Valve off the hook. They've made some bad decisions- some obvious, some less so. It's taken a while to truly comprehend just how badly some groups are willing to jimmy the system, whether it's items with real-world values or "astroturf-roots" groups tilting what are supposed to be "popular vote" mechanisms.

I'm just not sure, aside from tearing out all the offending systems by the roots (and weathering an enormous wave of anger and undoubtedly more than a few lawsuits as "real money" assets abruptly vanish) what Valve could do about some of these problems. Perhaps, in hindsight, they shouldn't have been in place in the first place, yes... Though in many cases there wasn't an outcry among the throng until the rot became widely apparent. But what should they do, now, aside from statements of condemnation with dubious value?

 

[Xorph]

I'm sorry, that's not true. As someone who's played TF2 a lot, most of the time you open crates, you get simple weapons you can get for free, can't trade for anything worthwhile, and can't sell via the Steam Market. Other crates, especially holiday themed crates, can give you items that are either less then the value of the Key itself, or cannot be traded or sold at all. You're guaranteed nothing by opening crates, which is why I usually avoid opening crates.

Incorrect, it is true. Whether the item recieved has a value of $2.50, or whether it has any monetary value at all, is irrelevant. The point is that if you put up the money, you get something in return guaranteed. It may still be a gamble in the conventional sense that what you get could be hot garbage, but from a legal standpoint it is not and never will be gambling.

 

[Laughing Man]

Lol Valve condemns the practice while putting in the least amount of work to do anything about it and as long as they keep pulling in that juicy juicy cash from CS GO cases which then get gambled off on websites such as the ones Valve is frowning and waving their finger at I fully expect that's all Valve will do, frown and wave it's finger.

 

[thewatergamer]

Congratulations Valve, you literally did the least you could do.

And even then it only took a lawsuit for them to pull their fingers from their asses. Typical Valve.

Yeah! I mean before they were driving tons and tons of money for us BUT NOW THAT SOMEONE GOT CAUGHT? "Oh its so horrible!"

I don't care about Valve's involvement, to them it was likely just an experiment. Whatever revenue that Valve saw from that 2-3 billion business was probably chump change compared to other things they have going on.

Snip

The statement given by Valve states that they received no money from such sites, which I'm sure in the literal "handing over wads of cash" sense is true.

I guess you could argue that such sites encouraged users to buy stuff to gamble, but even then the influence is hardly something that could be measured. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure they benefited from such sites, but as has been said it was probably chump change, and probably not something a court could hold them accountable for.

(Probably. I ain't really a lawyer)

You have a legitimate point absolutely,(I was being a bit sarcastic) my problem is with valve being quiet about it until ONLY after something bad happened, which is just typical valve bullcrap

 

[Jburton9]

This is what they say. What they are thinking is:

"Well, since this whole thing blew up so big we're doing something about this. We really wish we didn't have to - anyone who's not completely stupid is aware we knew about gambling websites the entire time and let them do their shit because it was making us money (we even got sued but lmao who cares, loopholes in gambling laws are sweet), but now that a popular youtuber and reddit are on the case we don't have much of a choice. Remember when Gabe was enough to guarantee good publicity for the entire studio no matter what we did? Sigh, good old days. Anyway, because we're completely ham fisted when it comes to interacting with anything our community wants or does, we're going to drop our entire nuclear arsenal on this issue to make sure every single party involved - except us, of course - gets fucked in the ass. We've already got our two biggest dildos out of the drawer - one for the people who built up and invested in gambling websites with our go ahead, one for the people who used said gambling sites and now have to watch those sites run away with their deposits, some of which are worth several thousand dollars - so we really hope you enjoy getting fucked in the ass. Fuck you.

Oh, just a reminder: obviously we had absolutely NOTHING to do with ANY OF THIS. Just because we own, develop and oversee a game and massive service doesn't mean we have any responsibility for those two. We'd like to clarify the revenue received from people who use gambling websites to earn REEL MONEY while using our services - something we could have stopped at any time - through publicity and millions of people opening cases do not profit us in any way. None. No business relations and all that. What are you gonna do, sue us?

Your favourite ass fucking service,

Valve.

PS: Sorry for taking like a full week to respond to all the allegations, our entire team was busy working on something which is not Half Life."

Holy crap. And to think I thought I was filled with piss and vinegar. I tip my hat to you for that post, because it was a beautiful thing to read and the perfect summation of the entire debacle. Gamers are often a considered a group of people who dislike big business and faceless asshole corporations, but Valve have been bastards for a long time and everyone always gave them a pass. Even if this doesn't sink Valve (and honestly I don't think anything really could), it will at least deal them a big enough blow to wake some people up to their unrepentant douchebaggery.

Both really good posts thank you : ) A few years back when some steam accounts were put on ban due to forum posts that got my attention, it is one thing to ban them from posting but entirely another to ban their access to the games they paid for. Since that time I have been quietly moving my library over to GoG. Presently there are only a few games per year that I purchase on Steam, the upcoming Civ VI and Paradox games.

Steam has gotten many free passes from gamers who chose to overlook their bad behavior as a company. I think it is due to steam sales and that people are in absolute Fear.

This is a Fear of losing access to their entire games library, so they ignore the wrong doings of the dictator of their game accounts. It was a good run while it lasted but like they say, power corrupts and they have been in the power position for too long and it really shows.