"Valve rarely release games" - NONESENSE!

[Woodsey]

I mean, yes, they have clearly decided not to do episodes any more; but it often seems like people just make up increasingly silly stuff concerning them.

Yeah, I mean the fans are totally making shit up that, for example that Valve had promised an Episode 3 that wouldn't take so many years [http://www.valvesoftware.com/news/?id=648]. They are acting like Valve promised it for 2007 It's like Gabe has ever said "After spending six years creating Half-Life 2, we decided to build HL2?s successor as a trilogy of episodes. This has allowed us take greater risks in gameplay, move the technology forward faster, and let people know what happened when the Citadel blew up in 18 months, rather than asking them to wait 6 years." But let's be clear, people, that wasn't said six years and two weeks ago. Just stop acting like it happened.

HERPADERP.

The guy said they claimed all three episodes would be out in a year. I said no one ever said that, and that people were increasingly making shit up to do with the episodes just to get themselves into a tizzy. I never said three episodes weren't announced, three episodes weren't planned, whatever the fuck else you think your little non-sequitur is on about.

And it's a fucking expansion pack. A better comparison (over AC, since clearly you need this beaten into your head) would be Shivering Isles and Oblivion.

 

[DoPo]

The guy said they claimed all three episodes would be out in a year. I said no one ever said that, and that people were increasingly making shit up to do with the episodes just to get themselves into a tizzy. I never said three episodes weren't announced, three episodes weren't planned, whatever the fuck else you think your little non-sequitur is on about.

To be precise he said it would be a "year or so". year and a half qualifies for that, I think.

And it's a fucking expansion pack. A better comparison (over AC, since clearly you need this beaten into your head) would be Shivering Isles and Oblivion.

Well, hit harder

it's not being one or the other, it's actually both

I didn't say it wasn't an expansion. You seem to need that explained better. Expansion and mod are not exclusive to one another.

 

[Woodsey]

The guy said they claimed all three episodes would be out in a year. I said no one ever said that, and that people were increasingly making shit up to do with the episodes just to get themselves into a tizzy. I never said three episodes weren't announced, three episodes weren't planned, whatever the fuck else you think your little non-sequitur is on about.

To be precise he said it would be a "year or so". year and a half qualifies for that, I think.

Read your own quote.

?This has allowed us take greater risks in gameplay, move the technology forward faster, and let people know what happened when the Citadel blew up in 18 months, rather than asking them to wait 6 years.?


Posted on the 8th June 2006. A week after Episode 1 released. Roughly (and by 'roughly', I mean a couple of weeks out) 18 months after HL2 released.

So, no. Not three episodes in "a year or so".

 

[Dryk]

considering that valve has yet to release a game that isnt considered to be an instant classic, perhaps these people who think valve is a disfunctional bunch of sloths should shut their fuckin traps

What about Ricochet? Nobody ever talks about Ricochet.

 

[Reggie Rock]

The problem i encounter with Valve? What do TF2, portal, half-life, counter strike and left 4 dead have in common. THEY ARE THE SAME DAMN GAME WITH 1 OR 2 DIFFERENCES.

Let's see here.

TF2: A multiplayer class-based game based heavily around teamwork, and a difference in gameplay between the classes.

Portal: A singleplayer puzzle game with dark humour and many original concepts.

Half-Life: An FPS with an original story and innovative story-telling mechanics, along with heavy variety between levels.

Counter-Strike: A multiplayer FPS with heavy community support, resulting in many different game modes being innovated by the community.

Left 4 Dead: A co-op game about a zombie apocalypse where four survivors have to survive against the plague, with a cheesy zombie movie-aesthetic.

Enough of this god awful argument. Yes, the story and aesthetics change, but aside from changing 1 or 2 gameplay elements, they play the same way.

Just saying "But left 4 dead 2 is different because zombies, co-op" has nothing to do with the playstyle. Portal being puzzle focused (if you can even call such an easy game "puzzle" ) doesn't detract from it being half-life with portals and no enemies. Valve consistently makes the same FPS over and over with 1 major difference (portals, zombies, hats, PvP) and people eat it up. I don't even think that any of those are bad games, but they don't deserve to be so revered for such a lazy approach.

Even if you don't agree that all Valve games are lazily similar, you have to agree that using mods as the base for a new game and then selling it at full price is is no doubt the reason that the release times are shorter. Valve lets someone else do something, then they latch on.

 

[The_Blue_Rider]

The problem i encounter with Valve? What do TF2, portal, half-life, counter strike and left 4 dead have in common. THEY ARE THE SAME DAMN GAME WITH 1 OR 2 DIFFERENCES.

Calling some severe bullshit on this.

A co-op/competitive zombie game, a competitive objective-based multiplayer shooter, a first person physics-based puzzle game and a single player shooter with a story are the same damn game.

Bull.

In other news, Mirror's Edge and Doom are the same because they're both first person games with guns in them.

Im guessing you didnt get to the Cyberdemon boss fight then?

 

[EternalFacepalm]

Enough of this god awful argument. Yes, the story and aesthetics change, but aside from changing 1 or 2 gameplay elements, they play the same way.

First of all, I didn't really argue for the story and aesthetics. Second of all, you're confusing "gameplay elements" with "perspective". Those are extremely different. Look at Portal, then Half-Life 2. Yes, they're both from a first-person perspective, but their gameplay, the entire feel of the two games are different.

In Half-Life 2, you feel a sense of urgency, being dropped in a world that has changed so much due to your actions in the predecessor. The gameplay consists of exploring the world, constantly meeting resistance, which you, seeing as it's an FPS, shoot at. That's the basic feel and gameplay of Half-Life 2.

In Portal, you solve puzzles (they are puzzles even if you find them easy). That's a basic summary of the game, excluding all the other wonderful things I can say about it. How is this the same as Half-Life 2, with a couple of mechanics changed? The entire focus of the game is different. These aren't simple gameplay mechanics being changed, they're entirely different games, simply from the same perspective.

Just saying "But left 4 dead 2 is different because zombies, co-op" has nothing to do with the playstyle. Portal being puzzle focused (if you can even call such an easy game "puzzle") doesn't detract from it being half-life with portals and no enemies.

It's Half-Life with portals, no enemies, a different focus of gameplay, a lack of guns (those are major in FPS's, I hear!), and a ton of other things differing the two games.

As for Left 4 Dead, it is different, but not only because "zombies and co-op". Have you even played the game? I can't even be bothered to summary how different this game actually plays out.

Valve consistently makes the same FPS over and over with 1 major difference (portals, zombies, hats, PvP) and people eat it up. I don't even think that any of those are bad games, but they don't deserve to be so revered for such a lazy approach.

They're revered because they're excellent pieces of innovation, story-telling and world-building. TF2 isn't "Counter-Strike with hats", it's "Counter-Strike with hats, an experimental weapon system, classes, stealth, and teamwork".

Even if you don't agree that all Valve games are lazily similar, you have to agree that using mods as the base for a new game and then selling it at full price is is no doubt the reason that the release times are shorter. Valve lets someone else do something, then they latch on.

They let someone else do something, then they hire them. Is supporting the modding community a bad thing, now?

 

[Phlakes]

As different as those 5? Please. All games play the same way, with the only difference being guns, the enemy and the map. Mechanics don't change, engines don't change and physics don't change.

It would be perfectly fine if they were sequels. Half-life one and Half-life 2 being similar is fine. So is portal 1 and portal 2. But these 5 different series only change about 3 variables to try and call themselves "new". It's lazy is what it is.

Secondly, all the games you listed not only vary in genre, but differ in engine, mechanics, art style and ding-ding-ding DIFFERENT LEVELS OF DIFFICULTY (something which valve obviously finds boggling to the mind), but in audience and playstyle.

I'm not saying that their bad games, but i'm saying that if you put the portal gun in half-life the game would be remarkably similar to portal.

Um... It's not entirely clear that you're aware, but Half Life is a linear, single player FPS, TF2 is a competitive multiplayer FPS, and Portal is a goddamn puzzle game. How about we scale back the hyperbole a bit and stop trying to suggest that just because you hold a gun in first person means there are no major differences.

 

[bafrali]

The problem i encounter with Valve? What do TF2, portal, half-life, counter strike and left 4 dead have in common. THEY ARE THE SAME DAMN GAME WITH 1 OR 2 DIFFERENCES.

All of the games have exactly the same control scheme, are FPS based, and it is incredibly stale. I didn't like the overall playing of half-life. Jumps were clunky, difficulty was easy mode, they constantly flaunted physics like it was a magical foreign concept and i didn't enjoy the way it played. BUT IN THE VALVE WORLD! I can't enjoy any more of their games, because they never bothered to change that playstyle nor did they even bother to really change the art style of the game (TF2 being the exception).

This is the problem people have with valve. It isn't that they haven't released any new games,it's that the games they released have been far from "new".

Valve is one of my more disliked companies because they get all this praise for doing less work and doing practices that we would all hate if it were anyone BUT valve. And releasing mods as full retail price games? That is unacceptable in any circumstance.

Wow that argument was so stupid, i lost a brain cell or two.

So they are the same because they are played from the same perspetive? It is one thing to not like FPS genre but it is moronic to blame a developer for developing games that are miles different in their play style just because their genre.

Sure it might be your opinion but don't expect to be taken seriously by the people who actually played the games

 

[NightHawk21]

The problem i encounter with Valve? What do TF2, portal, half-life, counter strike and left 4 dead have in common. THEY ARE THE SAME DAMN GAME WITH 1 OR 2 DIFFERENCES.

All of the games have exactly the same control scheme, are FPS based, and it is incredibly stale. I didn't like the overall playing of half-life. Jumps were clunky, difficulty was easy mode, they constantly flaunted physics like it was a magical foreign concept and i didn't enjoy the way it played. BUT IN THE VALVE WORLD! I can't enjoy any more of their games, because they never bothered to change that playstyle nor did they even bother to really change the art style of the game (TF2 being the exception).

This is the problem people have with valve. It isn't that they haven't released any new games,it's that the games they released have been far from "new".

Valve is one of my more disliked companies because they get all this praise for doing less work and doing practices that we would all hate if it were anyone BUT valve. And releasing mods as full retail price games? That is unacceptable in any circumstance.

Well I'll just disagree with you. As someone who has played 4 of the 5 games (haven't played HL, but I've played some mods for it so maybe 4.5 of the games), I think you're wrong. The games you mention are quite unique, and I think they accomplish what they set out to do. TF2 is fun, challenging and has a nice learning curve, Portal is a fantastic puzzle game, CS is an interesting shooter that rewards more skilled play (based off the couple hours I've played), and L4D is a fun coop guy. In terms of gameplay, apart from being all being an FPS, the games are drastically different (in fact they would cover 3-5 genres depending on how you break it up). Ascetically they are similar to each other (especially portal and TF2), but that's more a consequence of the engine. Besides stylized games are often less demanding and age a lot better than realistic ones. As for difficulty, I can only assume you haven't logged much time into the games. One of my friends is currently playing TF2 in a tournament, and the few times I've gone up against him he was literally wiping the floor with my corpse. Its the same thing in CS. I went up against people who have been playing for a lot longer than I have, and even when I learned the maps they were still easily winning. As for portal, well I'll concede that the campaign of both of those games is very easy, but portal 1 had challenge rooms and challenges for completing the test chambers with a limited number of portals to make it more challenging, and Portal 2 has test room creation (which while I haven't gotten to play yet has spat out some ridiculously challenging rooms I'm sure).

 

[Reggie Rock]

Jesus Christ, there is no reasoning with Valvedrones.

Snip

READ WHAT I HAVE SAID. THIS POINT HAS BEEN BROUGHT UP AND ADDRESSED BEFORE.

Snip

Did you just read one sentence and reply to that without any other knowledge of what my point is? "Miles different in their play style" BULL. SHIT. All of these games follow the same control scheme, physics and perspective. The characters all control the EXACT SAME WAY (again, TF2 has speed difference) and the only defining aspects of each is the map, the format and the story. Jesus if CoD was made by Valve you'd all be applauding how diverse each installment is.

But modders get supported so it's the best

If they were "supporting" the mod community, they would be allowing the modder to mod and perhaps even make some dosh. Supporting isn't taking the Mod, getting a team to work on it and then slapping a huge "WE MADE DIS" sign on it, with or without the modders approval.

Why is it that people feel it necessary to defend such bad practices? Why is this the best, but the worst when anyone else does it? Why is DRM the worst thing in existence but steam is a godsend? It's Because the valve defense force is a hypocritical bunch.

 

[bafrali]

that was long snip

I knew you were a lost cause but i didn't expect petty insults.

captcha: watch out.

Indeed captcha. He must with this kind of mind set

 

[Reggie Rock]

The problem i encounter with Valve? What do TF2, portal, half-life, counter strike and left 4 dead have in common. THEY ARE THE SAME DAMN GAME WITH 1 OR 2 DIFFERENCES.

All of the games have exactly the same control scheme, are FPS based, and it is incredibly stale. I didn't like the overall playing of half-life. Jumps were clunky, difficulty was easy mode, they constantly flaunted physics like it was a magical foreign concept and i didn't enjoy the way it played. BUT IN THE VALVE WORLD! I can't enjoy any more of their games, because they never bothered to change that playstyle nor did they even bother to really change the art style of the game (TF2 being the exception).

This is the problem people have with valve. It isn't that they haven't released any new games,it's that the games they released have been far from "new".

Valve is one of my more disliked companies because they get all this praise for doing less work and doing practices that we would all hate if it were anyone BUT valve. And releasing mods as full retail price games? That is unacceptable in any circumstance.

Well I'll just disagree with you. As someone who has played 4 of the 5 games (haven't played HL, but I've played some mods for it so maybe 4.5 of the games), I think you're wrong. The games you mention are quite unique, and I think they accomplish what they set out to do. TF2 is fun, challenging and has a nice learning curve, Portal is a fantastic puzzle game, CS is an interesting shooter that rewards more skilled play (based off the couple hours I've played), and L4D is a fun coop guy. In terms of gameplay, apart from being all being an FPS, the games are drastically different (in fact they would cover 3-5 genres depending on how you break it up). Ascetically they are similar to each other (especially portal and TF2), but that's more a consequence of the engine. Besides stylized games are often less demanding and age a lot better than realistic ones. As for difficulty, I can only assume you haven't logged much time into the games. One of my friends is currently playing TF2 in a tournament, and the few times I've gone up against him he was literally wiping the floor with my corpse. Its the same thing in CS. I went up against people who have been playing for a lot longer than I have, and even when I learned the maps they were still easily winning. As for portal, well I'll concede that the campaign of both of those games is very easy, but portal 1 had challenge rooms and challenges for completing the test chambers with a limited number of portals to make it more challenging, and Portal 2 has test room creation (which while I haven't gotten to play yet has spat out some ridiculously challenging rooms I'm sure).

Well good sir, i have completed the campaigns half-life, portal and left 4 dead numerous times, played extensive TF2, counter strike and L4D (They're fun) and i can say that they all feel similar. The characters in each game control EXACTLY the same (tf2 speed blabla) and that is fact. Difference with the character is only the weapon they have. Yes, portal was puzzle focused and half-life asn't, but that has nothing to do with this conversation at all. It can have a different goal with the same method of getting there.

TF2 is stylized i will agree, but the rest will not age very well at all. TF2 has been incredibly easy since F2P (one of the worst things to happen to the game) and the argument of tournament play is ridiculous. I shouldn't have to LOOK for a challenge, challenge should be there.

Portal was not challenging for me in the slightest (Portal 2 - the never ending tutorial), but the map editor i will concede is fun as hell.

 

[Reggie Rock]

that was long snip

I knew you were a lost cause but i didn't expect petty insults.

captcha: watch out.

Indeed captcha. He must with this kind of mind set

Indeed, the mindset that bad business practices should be shunned and that we shouldn't tolerate mediocrity could get me in hot water with today's modern gamer.

 

[bafrali]

that was long snip

I knew you were a lost cause but i didn't expect petty insults.

captcha: watch out.

Indeed captcha. He must with this kind of mind set

Indeed, the mindset that bad business practices should be shunned and that we shouldn't tolerate mediocrity could get me in hot water with today's modern gamer.

Oh my!!! Now talking from our high horses are we?

Bad business practices? Valve? Here is a combo you don't see everyday. But we wouldn't expect anything less from the enlightened individual who is onto the evil empire that is Valve. Shine on you crazy diamond for you will take us to the promised lands.

Well that was enough sarcasm but yes i find your attitude of "Holier than thou" disturbing.

As for the actual argument i got nothing more to say than what others already mentioned. I would say have a good day but...nahh

 

[Alternative]

i agree with The red goblin.

in fact ever game ever made is exactly the same because we require a screen to view it.
and all the games just feel the same anyway, either im using a mouse and keyboared or im using a controller, how dare they never change the basic building blocks of games.
Whtts with every game having me play as the main character? i mean thats soooo boring and overdone .

infact theres no difference between games or movies at all, movies are jsut extended cutscenes that take up the whole game. same wit music, its like a game but just the sound track so that means its no different from any otehr games at all.

[/sarcasm]

seriously if you where using The Red Goblins troll logic then absolutely everything is the same.

 

[Reggie Rock]

that was long snip

I knew you were a lost cause but i didn't expect petty insults.

captcha: watch out.

Indeed captcha. He must with this kind of mind set

Indeed, the mindset that bad business practices should be shunned and that we shouldn't tolerate mediocrity could get me in hot water with today's modern gamer.

Oh my!!! Now talking from our high horses are we?

Bad business practices? Valve? Here is a combo you don't see everyday. But we wouldn't expect anything less from the enlightened individual who is onto the evil empire that is Valve. Shine on you crazy diamond for you will take us to the promised lands.

Well that was enough sarcasm but yes i find your attitude of "Holier than thou" disturbing.

As for the actual argument i got nothing more to say than what others already mentioned. I would say have a good day but...nahh

It's okay, we can't all be the next step in evolution. As the first of the ultra-humanites, i'll apologize for what we do to your race. (Plus, if i offended you or anything, that's me being an idiot, i'm an angry debater. i apologize.)