Vanguard Princess - Fan Service is it necessary?

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Hashbrick

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQ7sbnUI1AI [NSFW - Probably]

The game is Vanguard Princess, a fighter with an all female cast. Do you think that this type of fan service is needed to sell it. If they were clothed, no panty shots, no schoolgirl outfits, no swimsuits, no cleavage popping out, would it sell?

This video proves a point, sex sells. The amount they got on steam from this game is by far any sales they would have had in the past. But the question is, would you bother with a fighter that didn't have these obvious and glorified cliches if it was only a female cast?
 

Barbas

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Well, to keep it short, on-topic and respectful:

I don't think it's needed to sell it. Sure, it may help, but there are people who would play it anyway, so it isn't a necessity. As far as the anime characters that I've seen go, only the first in the video seems particularly "out there". If fighting games were my thing, I'd play it anyway if it had an all-female cast, because I haven't played a game like that yet. Bare flesh is not a priority for me in fighting games.
 

Hashbrick

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Barbas said:
Well, to keep it short, on-topic and respectful:

I don't think it's needed to sell it. Sure, it may help, but there are people who would play it anyway, so it isn't a necessity. As far as the anime characters that I've seen go, only the first in the video seems particularly "out there". If fighting games were my thing, I'd play it anyway if it had an all-female cast, because I haven't played a game like that yet. Bare flesh is not a priority for me in fighting games.
I agree, however does not following the "rules of thus cliche" now make your game even more of a niche market than the genre itself? Would it be self destructive to assume your core audience would be enough to make it "successful" by not adding these things?
 

Barbas

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Hashbrick said:
Barbas said:
Well, to keep it short, on-topic and respectful:

I don't think it's needed to sell it. Sure, it may help, but there are people who would play it anyway, so it isn't a necessity. As far as the anime characters that I've seen go, only the first in the video seems particularly "out there". If fighting games were my thing, I'd play it anyway if it had an all-female cast, because I haven't played a game like that yet. Bare flesh is not a priority for me in fighting games.
I agree, however does not following the "rules of thus cliche" now make your game even more of a niche market than the genre itself? Would it be self destructive to assume your core audience would be enough to make it "successful" by not adding these things?
Well, that's always a risk, but it is easier today than it has been before to test the waters, to see what sort of response you get from your audience and shape the game accordingly. Attitudes to these sorts of game elements are changing as the community grows, so I would say that it's really in the best interest of the developers to take that course of action, because it's likely going to be harder for them to predict how well the game will be received for its more lewd or suggestive elements.
 

dyre

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At a certain point fanservice hits diminishing returns, and this is definitely well past that (then again, so are many other anime style games imo). Still, I imagine there must be a market for it somewhere, so whatever works I guess.
 

Hagi

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Judging from that video, which admittedly isn't all that much to go by.

The panty shots, schoolgirl outfits, swimsuits and cleavage seem to be part of what the game is all about. Removing them would be like removing the torture, deaths, demons and all that sort of thing from Dragon Age.

Certainly you can have a fantasy RPG without all the dark stuff, but it wouldn't be Dragon Age.
Certainly you can have a fighter without all the fan-service stuff, but it wouldn't be whatever the hell this is.

Fan-service is very much necessary in a fan-service fighter, just like horror-elements are very much necessary in a dark fantasy RPG. That doesn't make it a good fighting game, having never played it I can't tell you if it is.

It is what it is. Can't say it has me interested but I'm completely fine with this sort of fan-service where it's the entire point. The type I freaking despise is the "something fer da dads" type of fan-service, where the thing is actually about something entirely different but for whatever reason they put in fan-service anyway.

 

Eamar

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Well, I enjoy fighting games and that video has definitely ensured that I won't be buying this game. I'm sure there are plenty of others who'd feel the same way.

That said, I wouldn't be fooling anyone if I denied the existence of the large numbers of people who would probably be attracted to the game precisely because of that stuff, so...

It's not "necessary" and it will alienate some potential customers, but there's definitely a market for it.
 

Hashbrick

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All great points so far.

Hagi - You are right that was the point of this fighting game. Here is some actual gameplay of it to gauge a better understanding of it, the video in the op was meant to show what they went for in obvious fashion. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vn26qY0fPps

Eamar - You proved a point that there is an audience out there that would not appreciate such a thing within their genre. However were you really the targeted audience to begin with?
 

Queen Michael

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I definitely get more interested in the game when it's got that kind of fanservice. But if it's necessary? That's something I honestly can't say.
 

Elfgore

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I really don't like when fan service is all a show/game has going for it. Like panty shots and massive tits will make me think it's good. To Love-Ru is the biggest offender of this I've ever seen. Yeah Lala's massive boobs and frequent nudity will make me want to watch this unfunny and boring show.

And yeah. I don't play fighters often, but if one didn't have fan service I wouldn't skip over it.
 

Hashbrick

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Ah yes Love-Ru, the masterpiece of deception and a great example of what this discussion is stating.

Queen Michael said:
I definitely get more interested in the game when it's got that kind of fanservice. But if it's necessary? That's something I honestly can't say.
Exactly this, randoms buying it just for that reason alone. It would be interesting to see the sales figures compared between a fan service and a non-fan service fighter. I bet the results would be un-shockingly wide apart.
 

Zhukov

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Y'know, I'd respect that sort of thing a whole lot more if they'd just nut up and make them all naked.

If you're gonna try and sell me something with sex appeal, why be half hearted about it?

It's the reason I kinda like Baynonetta. Say what you will about it, at least it isn't pretending to be anything else.
 

Redd the Sock

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Fanservice by its definition isn't necessary, but it does attract attention. Generally speaking, I'm first attracted to anything with an interesting visual style, and 9/10 times the game with fanservice will look interesting, not the game with the same old marines, or the same suits of traditional mid-evil armor. I can't call it a requirement, but there seems to be more color, exoticness, and overall attempt to stand out, than in putting everyone in a karate gi, or the same suit of space armor that is the same armor from 10 other games with a slightly different helmet.

Besides, like a bad movie, acts of shameless pandering can be so bad they're funny.
 

Hashbrick

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Redd the Sock said:
Fanservice by its definition isn't necessary, but it does attract attention. Generally speaking, I'm first attracted to anything with an interesting visual style, and 9/10 times the game with fanservice will look interesting, not the game with the same old marines, or the same suits of traditional mid-evil armor. I can't call it a requirement, but there seems to be more color, exoticness, and overall attempt to stand out, than in putting everyone in a karate gi, or the same suit of space armor that is the same armor from 10 other games with a slightly different helmet.

Besides, like a bad movie, acts of shameless pandering can be so bad they're funny.
Fan service creating creativity and style. There is something I have not thought of, interesting.
 

krazykidd

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Eamar said:
Well, I enjoy fighting games and that video has definitely ensured that I won't be buying this game. I'm sure there are plenty of others who'd feel the same way.

That said, I wouldn't be fooling anyone if I denied the existence of the large numbers of people who would probably be attracted to the game precisely because of that stuff, so...

It's not "necessary" and it will alienate some potential customers, but there's definitely a market for it.
But here's the thing, do you think it would sell as well( or better) without it? I don't think so, sure it's easy for people to say " if it wasn't so fanservice-y , i would buy it" but honestly, i don't believe it. I think most people who critise the game for having fanservice, wouldn't buy it even if it wasn't. Because honestly, all that is fluff, the real meat is the gameplay and mechanics. And if those are solid, the rest shouldn't matter in my opinion.

As for the question if i would buy a game with an all girl cast that wasn't fan service, i point you to skullgirls.
 

Hashbrick

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krazykidd said:
Eamar said:
Well, I enjoy fighting games and that video has definitely ensured that I won't be buying this game. I'm sure there are plenty of others who'd feel the same way.

That said, I wouldn't be fooling anyone if I denied the existence of the large numbers of people who would probably be attracted to the game precisely because of that stuff, so...

It's not "necessary" and it will alienate some potential customers, but there's definitely a market for it.
But here's the thing, do you think it would sell as well( or better) without it? I don't think so, sure it's easy for people to say " if it wasn't so fanservice-y , i would buy it" but honestly, i don't believe it. I think most people who critise the game for having fanservice, wouldn't buy it even if it wasn't. Because honestly, all that is fluff, the real meat is the gameplay and mechanics. And if those are solid, the rest shouldn't matter in my opinion.

As for the question if i would buy a game with an all girl cast that wasn't fan service, i point you to skullgirls.
Good point, though I think skullgirls has quite a bit of fan service flair. I guess it's not all the characters though so there is that and that a male is being add to the mix.
 

OrokuSaki

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Speaking as someone who put down the Soul Caliber series because I thought the game was repetitive and boring and not because of all the sexist female character models, I don't think it should make a lot of difference. At first I thought, "Semi-nudity in video games, of course that would sell." But then I remembered that it's supposed to be a fighting game, so wouldn't large amounts of fanservice distract from the violence. I'd think that a good fighting game would put more emphasis on the gameplay and not want to distract us with jiggle physics.

Also an anime style fighting game with an all-female cast that's full of fanservice reminds me of Ikki Tousen, which is the one manga that I ever put down due to hysterical laughter at the over-sexualization of characters.
 

Reaper195

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Is the game Japanese? Yes. Does OP sound like s/he's from Japan? No.

Pretty simple right there. Everything with the exception of the last couple of Final Fantasy games that comes out from Japan is marketed towards the Japanese audience. Look at anime. Almost all of it has 'fan service'. It's part of the Japanese media culture. That's the equivalent of everyone outside the US going "Why can Breaking Bad show you how to cook and sell meth, graphic violence and child murder...but not some titties or someone saying 'fuck'?"
 

Izanagi009_v1legacy

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Eamar said:
Well, I enjoy fighting games and that video has definitely ensured that I won't be buying this game. I'm sure there are plenty of others who'd feel the same way.

That said, I wouldn't be fooling anyone if I denied the existence of the large numbers of people who would probably be attracted to the game precisely because of that stuff, so...

It's not "necessary" and it will alienate some potential customers, but there's definitely a market for it.
Ultimately the issue is that this is not a game made my a major studio like Arc System Works (which has it's own issues with fanservice: Noel, Makoto, Platinum, Litchi and Bullet are the big offenders) but a single person.

The game is what is known as a doujin game (note, normal definition of doujin is that is it an independent effort made by a person or a circle, it does not alwasy imply hentai) made by an ex-Capcom sprite designer. Looking at gameplay, the sprites are decent, not blazblue level but servicable, but the actual animations seem slow and jerky and I swear to god that I see too strong a connection to other fighting game characters.

The guy would probably need something in order to attract people to his game and what better way to attract otaku and NEET than TnA if the gameplay is basic at best.
Reaper195 said:
Is the game Japanese? Yes. Does OP sound like s/he's from Japan? No.

Pretty simple right there. Everything with the exception of the last couple of Final Fantasy games that comes out from Japan is marketed towards the Japanese audience. Look at anime. Almost all of it has 'fan service'. It's part of the Japanese media culture. That's the equivalent of everyone outside the US going "Why can Breaking Bad show you how to cook and sell meth, graphic violence and child murder...but not some titties or someone saying 'fuck'?"
I do wish you refrain from such a generalized statement. Japan's relation with sex has been an odd one. Pre Meiji Japan was actually very liberal with sex in its writing and general lifestyle, hell women didn't even wear anything like panties but Koshimaki which is basically a giant skirt but nothing else underneath. When the US came, Japan quickly adopted several western cultural aspects, this included our prudishness. Japan in the modern era is actually facing a crisis since multiple factors are causing men to shift away from marriage and sex.

Also, Japan's view of sex is opposite of ours: its not that they tend to have it in everything, its that they believe it a more natural thing and did not impose heavy restrictions on sex like Europe during the Dark Ages and Renaissance. In fact, complants from the older generations will argue that the current one is less aggressive than before (Danger:Must Silence will tell you that's bullshit but I'm more relaying what they say)

Third, while Japanese media can have a focus on fanservice at times (see Sister is Unusual for an egregious example), We are seeing only a sliver of what they actually produce. The distribution of programming and content is roughly equal to the States in many ways.

Finally, the only reason why there is an increase in fanserice in anime is because of a shift in focus to the Otaku/NEET demographic which means they are going to focus less on stories and more on superficial awesome and sexy.