Veldt Falsetto said:
No...in general terms they are both very generic games...incredibly fun? Yes. Original? No. They both rip into the genre they belong to while doing something to add to the ott arcadey feel that makes these games so great.
Listen, I think these games are brilliant, I'm not going to say otherwise. They are solid titles that deserve a playthrough without the satire alone, but the satire placed in them rocket them up to great standards.
From the your first reply, it really seemed like you were hating on these games. I just did not at all think you thought these games were "brilliant" or "great" from your first post. I thought you didn't really play them much and you thought they sucked.
I don't like your use of the word "generic." I use generic to describe a game that has generic gameplay because that is the most important part of the game by far; Bayonetta and Vanquish gameplay-wise are not at all generic. If I think a game has generic characters or story or whatever, I will specify that and not call the game generic since almost every game has generic characters or story (characters and story are almost always not given the attention they need). With Bayonetta, I loved every aspect of its cheesy-ness. I love good cheese (in movies) and thought Bayonetta was just awesome in that regard. I definitely don't think Bayonetta was a dig at the West, as I don't think the West makes a good hack and slash game to begin with. I wouldn't be surprised if Platinum was trying to show up Capcom (and they greatly succeeded) as they were once apart of Capcom. With Vanquish, it is definitely a satire or parody of Western shooters, whether it's trying to say anything more is up to debate.
MarsProbe said:
Also, what is this madness about "not playing the game right" being spouted around as if it's a good thing. A game should not dictate to you the way you play it (within it's base mechanics of course) but the other way around.
Agh, perhaps I'm just disappointed in Vanquish as it just seems so western. As was said in the escapist review of the game it has more or less everything you'd expect to find in your typical western shooter. Which is okay I guess, if you're playing a western shooter. I'd have thought this would have been a little more Bayonetta-like in feel, where the only real concessions to the western audience were perhaps the use of an English language song, some fairly subtle western gaming references as well as a more liberal dropping of the old f-bombs.
With Vanquish, you can play the game like a standard cover shooter. You can take cover, pop-out in slow-mo, shoot some baddies, and return to cover. When playing Vanquish that way the game isn't anything special, and the game is then basically just a cover shooter with slow-mo added in and nothing more. If you are playing the game by sliding all over, getting in close, trying your best to look cool, boost canceling, dodging all over, utilizing all the game's cool weapons to their max, and much more, then you are playing a much different and better game than just a cover shooter with slow-mo. That is what I'm getting at with playing the game "wrong."
I was actually a bit disappointed in the Escapist review because there were some factual errors. The guy that made Vanquish, Shinji Mikami, did not make DMC or Viewtiful Joe. And saying that Platinum got instructions from a higher up, marketing rep, or whatever to make a Western shooter like Gears is just plain wrong as well. Shinji Mikami made a shooter, P.N. 03, that was made 3 years before the first Gears. So, he was just making a game he wanted to, not what he was told to make. The other error in the review is that the reviewer said you can't melee when you are overheated, and you can melee with the disk launcher since its melee doesn't use your suit's energy.
Vanquish is obviously not going to be THAT much like Bayonetta because it's a shooter and not a hack and slash. It is like Bayonetta in the sense that Bayonetta is an arcade, HARDCORE action game and so is Vanquish. You can put in the time to really get good at Vanquish just like you could with Bayonetta, there's quite a difference between high-level play and normal play.
Ironic Pirate said:
Didn't use any cover, the slidey thing was too damn fun. That said, the guns were incredibly weak feeling, I didn't like the HUD, and the enemies weren't fun to fight. And it was really awkward to have to enter cover to jump over it.
I just wish the sliding thing was in a better game, with more fun enemies.
The demo has only 3 of the game's enemies in it, there is really a lot of different enemies. The demo area really is your first major battle in the actual game, so it's really just warming you up for what is to come. I do feel there could've been more variety in bosses but the game does have a wealth of different enemies. Also, the demo only has the normal weapons, the LFE gun and disk launcher are a lot of fun. The 2nd demo only released on the Japan PSN was a lot more indicative of how the game is like. The assault rifle is the weakest gun in the game, the heavy machine gun is pretty powerful even in the demo, and the shotgun is, well, a shotgun. And, the weapons upgrade during the game to make them more powerful as well. I kinda agree with the jumping as it would be better to have jump button. When playing the game, you do just get used double tapping square (or X for the 360) to jump. It is a bit slower than a jump would be, but it is quicker than you think as I really didn't like that you couldn't jump either when I played the demo.
