Veganism...why?

[manic_depressive13]

50% of the chicks that emerge as males and get casually tossed into a grinder? That is an unavoidable consequence of mass breeding chickens. Not all of them turn out female.

Why cant we eat roosters? That may seem stupid but ive never understood this practice. Youve invested money in getting an egg to hatch into a rooser. Why not just free range farm them for consumption? Isnt it a huge waste not to?

Roosters grow to maturity much slower than chickens. It's easier to hatch an egg and toss the chick away than to waste money keeping it alive several months longer than its female counterpart. Also, chickens that are bred to lay eggs are different to poultry chickens. So not only is the rooster useless in that it doesn't lay eggs, but one hatched by the egg industry would also be the wrong breed for maximum weight gain and, even if it were the right breed, it would grow far too slowly. That means they are just completely useless to both the egg and the poultry industry so they get turned into paste.

Edit: Shit, that's right, they're territorial too. Have another reason.

 

[BiscuitTrouser]

Roosters grow to maturity much slower than chickens. It's easier to hatch an egg and toss the chick away than to waste money keeping it alive several months longer than its female counterpart. Also, chickens that are bred to lay eggs are different to poultry chickens. So not only is the rooster useless in that it doesn't lay eggs, but one hatched by the egg industry would also be the wrong breed for maximum weight gain and, even if it were the right breed, it would grow far too slowly. That means they are just completely useless to both the egg and the poultry industry so they get turned into paste.

Edit: Shit, that's right, they're territorial too. Have another reason.

That all makes a lot of good sense. I wonder if it would be possible to genetically alter birds to produce only female offspring. Would save money and be more ethical. Im willing to bet someones looked into this.

In birds females are the XY and males are the XX. Weird reversal. Definately complicates things.

EDIT: Fun science fact. Some birds do not have males at all! Entirely female species are VERY rare but do exist and reproduce using Parthinogenesis: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parthenogenesis

Wait never mind it was turkeys (sometimes) and it only produces males due to the genetics above. Science will solve these problems eventually i imagine.

 

[JoJo]

Veganism is the logic extension of vegetarianism, since as mentioned above in today's methods of production, many animals die because they're the wrong gender or type for milk or egg-making industry. That said, it's very difficult to have a healthy vegan diet and one must deliberately make up certain lost nutrients from the lack of certain foods... I'll think I stick to my steak and cheese thank you ;-)

 

[Da Orky Man]

I only know one vegan and I would ask her, but frankly, she's scary. She's never mentioned why she's a vegan, and I'm not going to ask any time soon. Wouldn't describe her as smug though.

 

[Lionsfan]

Why is veganism a thing?

Because it gives us Telepathic Powers

So....Watch your tone buddy

 

[ClockworkPenguin]

I'm a fully fledged carnivore. However, if you are a vegetarian primarily because of reasons relating to animal suffering (as opposed to environmental concerns) I can't see why you wouldn't go the whole hog and be a vegan.

Generally, animals kept for meat are treated a damn site better than animals kept for work/dairy. Admittedly, they have shorter lives, but still.

 

[Eamar]

I have one vegan friend, and I remain decidedly unconvinced. I myself was vegetarian for several years as a teenager (full-on carnivore these days though) and flirted with the idea of veganism for a bit. Then I realised how impractical it is.

The thing that gets me is that you can never live a fully vegan lifestyle. You have to avoid all animal products, everything that contains an animal-derived ingredient, anything that was tested on animals... for every single product you use in your life, not just food. It's just not possible to do it 100%. Of course, not being able to do something perfectly isn't necessarily a reason not to do it at all, but I have a hard time working out where people draw the line and how they justify it.

Plus, while it's possible for vegans to have a healthy, balanced diet, it's damn hard. Most vegans I've known weren't getting everything they needed. (As an aside, the aforementioned current vegan friend was seriously overweight until recently. I'm still trying to work out what she was eating...)

So, my feelings are that I can sympathise with wanting to treat animals well but veganism just isn't practical.

I'd be interested to try it as a temporary experiment though.

 

[WaysideMaze]

I know a vegan. He decided to take it up about 6 months ago just to give it a try, since he was never a big meat eater anyway.

He said he feels much healthier on this diet. No moral issues, just likes the health benefits.

As for me? Cheeseburgers all the way G.

 

[BaronUberstein]

Well I can certainly understand the idea of making the animals not suffer, I hear fear-meat is all stringy.

But then again, Vegans would call me a monster because my attitude is simple: We made these animals, they would not exist without us because we took the original animals and bred them/modified them to our purposes. The modern cow, pig, and chicken simply wouldn't exist without us, and we made them for specific purposes, such as meat, milk, and eggs. Thus, not using them for the reason we made them for is wasteful.

Of course, I argue that I don't want feces in my meat, so of course hygiene must be considered. That's about my only issue with factory farming.

 

[peruvianskys]

I'm an abolitionist, in that I think even non-human animals should be considered moral "persons" due to their ability to suffer and thus should not be slaughtered, held in ownership, or used as food producers.

I consider cows and pigs and chickens to be morally equivalent to retarded human beings, in that using them for our own benefit when they can't consent is immoral and a violation of their rights.

Animals clearly have desires. They clearly feel pain. I don't see any scientific reason why a human being with severe mental retardation should be considered any more important than a pig. Both deserve the right to exist free from violence or coercion. That includes not slaughtering them as well as not buying and selling them. If you wouldn't hook up a toddler to a milking machine, then I don't think you should hook a cow up to one.

What's so weird about that?

But then again, Vegans would call me a monster because my attitude is simple: We made these animals, they would not exist without us because we took the original animals and bred them/modified them to our purposes. The modern cow, pig, and chicken simply wouldn't exist without us, and we made them for specific purposes, such as meat, milk, and eggs. Thus, not using them for the reason we made them for is wasteful.

So if the slave trade had continued long enough that Africans developed particular genetic traits making them more useful as field workers, it would be okay to continue their bondage forever?

If not, please give me a scientific difference between the two situations.

 

[Eamar]

So if the slave trade had continued long enough that Africans developed particular genetic traits making them more useful as field workers, it would be okay to continue their bondage forever?

If not, please give me a scientific difference between the two situations.

The difference is of course that human slaves are not animals. I appreciate that you do not accept this explanation, but the overwhelming majority of people do. I'm afraid you can't expect others to see humans and animals as equivalent for the purposes of questions like this. It's just not going to happen.

I'm curious though (genuinely curious, not trying to be a dick): how would you deal with all the captive animals that already exist? They exist purely because humans have bred them and couldn't be supported in the wild. Would you wait for them to die out naturally? But given your stance on treating them the same as humans, surely you'd be against restricting their right to reproduce? What would you do about the inevitable offspring once you've liberated the animals from captivity? Do you agree with PETA killing the animals that "shouldn't exist"?

Again, not trying to be a dick. I honestly consider this a very interesting philosophical question.

 

[peruvianskys]

The difference is of course that human slaves are not animals. I appreciate that you do not accept this explanation, but the overwhelming majority of people do. I'm afraid you can't expect others to see humans and animals as equivalent for the purposes of questions like this. It's just not going to happen.

Humans are animals. There is no magical difference between me and a cow. We both want things and we both suffer. That's all that I think should be required to make a creature worth moral consideration.

I'm curious though (genuinely curious, not trying to be a dick): how would you deal with all the captive animals that already exist? They exist purely because humans have bred them and couldn't be supported in the wild. Would you wait for them to die out naturally? But given your stance on treating them the same as humans, surely you'd be against restricting their right to reproduce? What would you do about the inevitable offspring once you've liberated the animals from captivity? Do you agree with PETA killing the animals that "shouldn't exist"?

I'd probably support some kind of paid emancipation, where animals were purchased over time from their owners and returned to the wild, or in the case of domesticated animals, into "holding farms" for them to live their natural lives.

Not that it matters. What is right is right and what is wrong is wrong; it doesn't matter if it's easy or hard to reflect that moral reality in our actions.

Again, not trying to be a dick. I honestly consider this a very interesting philosophical question.[/quote]

 

[bojackx]

I don't think "unnescary" is the word, but maybe unnecessary.

I agree, it does seem a little excessive, and I honestly don't see any reason why vegans would avoid free range eggs. If anything, the chickens live happier lives laying eggs than I dunno, living in the wild.

 

[aba1]

I honestly would like to be Vegan if I could but it is very hard to do with getting the proper nutrition. I don't like it but as a human we are made to eat meat and that is just the sad truth. Plus I can't stand the taste of most vegetation which is weird I know but I really cannot stand almost any vegetables but I do eat fruit. I hate being a picky eater :\

I have heard some say it is simply nature to eat animals and that it is all part of the food chain but really humans have sort of grown beyond the food chain. We don't hunt or live in the wild anymore and we farm animals.

 

[Eamar]

Humans are animals. There is no magical difference between me and a cow. We both want things and we both suffer. That's all that I think should be required to make a creature worth moral consideration.

And I respect that that is what you think. But most people will never see it that way.

I'd probably support some kind of paid emancipation, where animals were purchased over time from their owners and returned to the wild, or in the case of domesticated animals, into "holding farms" for them to live their natural lives.

Not that it matters. What is right is right and what is wrong is wrong; it doesn't matter if it's easy or hard to reflect that moral reality in our actions.

That doesn't answer the reproduction question though. Would you restrict the reproductive rights of the animals in these holding farms, or would you run the farms indefinitely (thereby continuing the "enslavement")?

 

[SpAc3man]

Because some people think we should let all the domesticated farm animals be free because hundreds (possibly thousands) of years of selective breeding by humans makes them completely able to function in the wild with no negative effects whatsoever. Also apparently only OTHER animals can eat other animals. Humans cant because we have evolved more so don't need to keep living in a way that allowed us to get this far in the first place.