Very Long Analysis of ME3 Ending, aka why the ending is great (spoilers)

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MomoElektra

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Mar 11, 2012
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Skyfyre said:
Jshrike: If you actually had a degree in literature or film studies you would understand that while endings are certainly important, it is faulty logic to conclude a work is a failure because part of the ending is bad. The Cantebury Tales is considered one of the greatest literary works and it does not even have an ending.
The Canterbury Tales is a collection of stories, which themselves very much have an ending. Don't they teach you that in literature or film studies?

(You mentioning your apparently superior training does come off as extremely arrogant to me)

Vuljatar: Transhumanism is a huge theme in this series. In ME1 you have people being turned into husks. At the end of ME1 Saren is merged with massive amounts of Reaper tech. At the start of ME2 Shepard is fitted with synthetic tech to bring you back to life, not to mention again that you are fighting people that are being combined with Reaper tech. The final battle in ME2 is a huma/reaper hybrid. Also the biotics are people merged with technology to amplify their biotic powers. The synthesis ending is not surprising at all.
It's suprising the transhumanism ending can be considered a good thing, when all the examples you mention here are, again and again, shown in game to be monstrous things.
 

dAeMoN1804

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Apr 5, 2012
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with ME everyone gets another experience, so my point of view is bound to be different from others'.

i agree, that sacrifice, forgiveness and entropy are major (or big) themes. tho you completly lack the acknowledge of another big theme: against all odds - and beating them.

at least for my ME experience "beating all odds" is the major one. sacrifive, forgiveness and entropy are sort of accessories to "beating all odds".

sole survivor background, beeing able to endure the prothean beacon with sound mind, to figure out and stopping saren's plot without much support of the council, the whole ME2 game, ensure peace and alliances between thurians, krogans, geth, quarians... the whole galaxy...
and thats just the biggest points.

you are constantly thrown against seemingly unbeatable odds. nevertheless you charge in and you also inspire others to go against all odds as well. and you stay on top of it regardless.
tho sometimes you only stay on top of it, because of sacrifice, etc...

you end the reaper thread against all odds, but i dont think suvival and a happy end would be against a major theme to an impossible degree.

another big theme is friendships, relationships and the characters involved.

the death of shepard doesnt bother me too much. it's maybe not even the total lack of closure or the amount of blanks that are not filled. i enjoy open ends, as long as the end is within the established rules and logics.

what bothers me is the narrative failure to introduce the mainvillan in the last 5 minutes of an roughly 100 hour storytelling. it is the introduction of complete new concepts against all so far introduced rules and boundaries of the ME universe in the last 5 minutes.

or maybe i would even not be bothered by that as well, as long as would have been pulled off properly.

there are multiple good examples that a introduction of new characters and concepts in the very end of a story can be done well. maybe it is even possible to do that with only 15 (or so) lines of text for the new character, but bioware just did not pull that off.

that, combined with illogical things which contratict possibilities of the ME universe (no star trek beaming for example), is what bothers me really with the end.

ok, that ... AND that there were no little blue children
 

Axyun

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Oct 31, 2011
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Any way you slice it, the ME3 ending is a perfect example of lazy, incoherent, strong-armed, cheap emotion-fishing bad narrative.

A controversial ending sparks conversation. People are conversing about the ME3 ending because it is flawed in execution at a technical level, not because its themes are controversial or misunderstood.

I hate to be the guy linking youtube videos but...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MlatxLP-xs

This is why ME3's ending is flawed. Not bad, controversial, unexpected, thought provoking, deep or what have you. It is flawed at the execution level.
 

Mr.Squishy

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Apr 14, 2009
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It's late here and I need to get up early in the morning, but I'll boil what I'd say down to a meagre summary: You have some good points, but with all due respect, the endings still didn't feel right to me. No, I'm not some crazy 'retake mass effect' zealot, I'm just a gamer who likes (screw that, loves) the series but wasn't too thrilled by the ending. This is the worst I'll do about it, though, that is, express mild annoyance on boards, so put down that flamer.
 

tmande2nd

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Oct 20, 2010
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The problem is that ME3 did not fulfill the standard story pattern shall we say.


We got a (terribly done) climax, but there was no falling action, and no closure.
For example the climax of Revenge of the Sith is right when Obi-wan defeats Anakin.
If you cut it off RIGHT THERE, you would be left hanging with some serious questions.

They needed to show Luke and Leia being born, Padme dying, and set up Episode 4.
Mass Effect 3 cuts right out at the climax and stops.

No matter the views on the ending, it still cuts off way to early.
 

Whateveralot

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Oct 25, 2010
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I didn't just find the ending bad. I found it quite satisfying actually. The thing is, that Mass Effect 3 feels like all your decisions are undermined. It lacks gravity.

There should be way more interaction between shepard and the reapers, for example; hinting at their view on all this. Also, I feel a lot of characters get way too little attention, and they seem to just mention them so that they're not left out entirely. Harbinger, for example. He's there at the last stand, but that's it. He's just "there", shooting his lasers. A tad disappointing.

Also, I felt that the interaction with the team mebers was very limited during the missions, and a lot of the important characters have little or no role in the final stand.

For example: you spent part of Mass Effect 2 recruiting Subject Zero a.k.a. Jack. Then, during her struggle to get used to life on the Normandy, she's confronted with her past; her loyalty mission. Assuming she survived, she reappears in Mass Effect 3 as a changed person. She clearly has let the past behind and started a new life. You have to rescue her and her students from Cerberus during an attack on their facility. After that, she remains to do her own stuff, but in the final stand; she doesn't appear to be there. There is no visible advantage to having rescued her.

That...lack of gravity, is what makes the story fall apart in Mass Effect 3.

But heck, I loved the game. There's no need for me to complain any more than this.
 

Manveru

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Apr 12, 2012
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While I can conceive the value of Shepard's sacrifice of his/her own life and the expiation through it for his/her choices that caused the sacrifices of others, I disagree completely on the "Entropy" theme: here we come to the opposition of Nihilism to Utilitarianism. Here below I provide very quick analysis of what I mean?

You talked about "Entropy", but then what about "Hope", "Free Will", "Cooperation»?

Concerning the ?cooperation? Javik confirms that it is a new quality when describing his cycle: his people dominated the galaxy, the people of Shepard?s cycle cooperated, this should have changed the output of the things? unless the NIHILISM is the only value that game wants to transmit to its public.

Now I will explain you why I consider such vision (promoting Nihilism) as morally extremely unacceptable from Bioware artistic team, or otherwise speaking, a bad thing to do.

We will go back to a real life: under the ?entropy? hypothesis, whatever we do, it does not matter as we will go back to repeat the same cycle again and again and breaking the cycle necessarily means the total destruction, a chaos (destruction ending)

The control and synthesis endings are kind of compromise made with the quintessence of evil ? both are like signing the treaty with a devil and I am sorry ? it is not a real life! It is as if we had made a ceasefire and a peace with German Nazis in the Second World War instead of marching to Berlin, waging a full scale brutal war, destroying their armies and industrial power definitively and finally judging and executing the most important Nazis that commited the human crimes. It is not as if USA had not thrown two nuclear bombs on Japan Empire to cut down the war there as well! In the same way, as you say that Sacrifice is a central theme of Mass Effect series, the Reaper?s character as an absolute menace for everything that is good, alive and intelligent is well established: no compromise is possible without compromising the ethical values of the galaxy races: The series is constructed in such a way that either Reapers disappear or the galactic civilisations disappear, the other choices are intellectually very unsatisfying : they imply that in all extreme situations the bad compromises should be made: no coexistence is possible between galactic races and Reapers. The ?control? ending is nothing more than a bad ?cease fire? buying some more time to the surviving races and the ?synthesis? does not seem to make any sense from ?scientific? point of view and seems like a ?peace treaty? with Reapers, which is ridiculous (makes me think about those cases where Afghan women are forced to marry the guy that raped them, the criminal and victim are forced to live in peace: we know that THAT DOES NEVER WORK ? that denies any concept of elementary justice). All in all, it brings us 3 bad endings, confirming the hopelessness ? the future does not matter: it will be always the same; Nihilism rules the Mass Effect world in this interpretation.

So, you forget about the whole ?Hope? theme present in ME series: in two and 90% of the third game Shepard led the people forward and he brought them a hope, that things can be different ? it is how the biggest civilisation advances were actually done! It is a very human feeling. Shepard may win in my opinion, not every war has been won by the sheer military force, I like to come back to previously mentioned Second World War (which is transpiring everywhere in Mass Effect): D-Day operation in ? Normandy was prepared under full cover and with a lot of disinformation in such a way that Germans were not aware of the whole thing until it was too late, yet they had a crushing military advantage! The whole occupied Europe was full of resistance that committed the acts of sabotage even though the enemy responded with organized terror on the civil population. And if you looked on the history in other human civilisations, you can find thousands of examples that confirm that thesis? no oppression is eternal; the empires constructed on the violence always fall faster than the countries constructed on the mutual comprehension.

And even a sheer military force is always an option to win if some military expresses the command genius : In the darkest hours of 1941-42, the Russians had conjured the whole human strength they were able to pull to stop Germans some 50 km before Moscow and general Zukow ?s command managed to stop the catastrophe! Ok, you say, Reapers are far beyond anything that exists in galaxy ? but what about strategy and tactics? Small real life example: Japanese resisted all tentative of European or American colonisation in XIX century, even though they were technologically weaker: they managed to adopt and defend themselves.

In real life the sacrifice serve for something: The Sankt Petersburg (Leningrad) inhabitants starved and had eaten their shoes, but they did not let the enemy in! Jews in Warsaw and then Polish made an insurrection in front of the forces highly superior to their own and they died, while they were slaughtered, ?reaped? ? the whole damned city of more than 1 million people had been destroyed and citizens were killed, yet they held the damned line to the end. There was always a hope. Coming back to Mass Effect, even Edi, in her humanization efforts, mentioned something similar in dialogues with Shepard: She wandered why people prefer to die than preserve themselves by all costs; the compromise with ultimate evil is not preferable to death. Bioware?s game endings contradict that HISTORICAL truth.

The fact that Shepard is given 3 solipsistic choices in the end out of nothing denies any sense of the sacrifices done previously by game characters, nations, races?. It goes back to your sacrifice theme and in my opinion counters the whole ?Entropy? thing. The entropy ?thing? is a game breaker and morally speaking unacceptable vision of the world.

Then about ?Free Will?: Mass Effect repeated again and again that it is all about the choice ? but Shepard is silent in the end! Where is his free will exposed in there, why doesn?t he question the logic of the Catalyst, why cannot he say ?NO? for all proposed solutions? In real life the "No" option always exist, "the third way", the option, not foreseen by the one that fixes the rules, "NO" defies the very concept of Nihilism. Shepard was able to say "No" in all of earlier games ... why it is not possible in ME3 ?!

So when Bioware pulls out the ending, where Shepard basically goes over it, I find it personally insulting (coming from Poland, the country that managed to overthrow more evil regimes that I could possibly count) and most of people knowing the history would have a similar feelings about the thing.

One would say that the ?war assets? number is important, but ? frankly, in most of human activities, the numbers are insignificant, and the qualitative, not quantitative, values are the most important: none of that is addressed by the endings choice nor their result. Who cares that war assets were on 2700 or 3500? What is important is elsewhere: did we make a peace between Quarians and Geth? Did we save Rachnis, did we manage to close the breach between Krogan and Turians? I repeat again to all pro-enders: the War Assets number is meaningless in the role-playing terms, what is important is how qualitatively speaking we had changed the world.

So what is my point?

Entropy, Nihilism is a very negative approach to the world comprehension: Bioware, opting to construct the ending in such a way, contradicts the very majority of humanity that wants to believe in a better ?tomorrow?. It contradicts also the themes of hope, cooperation and free will, that in my opinion, are as strong as the sacrifice theme you mentioned.
 

Klatz

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Oct 29, 2009
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My issues with the ending aren't really about Shepard dying, the universe being substantially altered, or any perceived thematic shifts except for one.

My issues with the ending can be boiled down to Deus ex machina, big plot holes, and a shift away from player input (beyond a contrived choice).

The Catalyst being on the Citadel and being the controller/creator of the Reapers is a huge WTF that opens up huge holes in the story. It completely nullifies any logic to the plot of ME1. Why in the world would the Reapers need Sovereign to open the Citadel relay if the AI that controls the Reapers controls Citadel? It was huge red herring? A giant McGuffin?

You strive to bring together a galactic alliance and....it doesn't matter. The ending was Writer-ordained. The whole ME series up until the last 10 minutes revolved around player-choice. You could save the council or let humans take over, you could save or let the Rachni queen die, you could convince Saren to suicide or just kill him, etc.

In ME2 you could save or destroy the Collector base. And various companions would live or die based on previous conversation choices.

In ME3 you get to the pick the color.