Video games are an indication of a new "Man-Teen" culture....for gods sake....

[The Rogue Wolf]

Ah, here we go again. Both the linked articles in this thread point to an age-old prejudice:

"Men are worthless until they procreate"

I've heard it enough times. "When are you going to have a family?" Why do I need one? Is the species nearly extinct? No. It's just society's expectation that we are all supposed to live in little houses with 2.4 kids and a dog named Fido. "You're not a man until you've had children"? Forget that. Why should I bring life to children I don't want and would struggle to support? It's selfish of me not to want to inflict that on a child?

I personally have no problem with feminism's core aims- equality for men and women. However, it seems that a rather large camp wants nothing less than for men to simply be women who happen to have penises. They want men to feel the same as women, to view the world the same way as women do, because as everyone knows, the way men do things is WRONG. They want men to be nest-driven and have ticking biological clocks just like women do. Their idea of "equality" is emasculation.

Never mind my ideas, my hopes, my dreams, all the things I can do and create... the only thing I've got that's important to the future is my sperm. Buy the ring, buy the house, get that egg cell a-dividin' then just shut up, do the dishes and waste your life at that 9-to-5 you hate so you can support that all-important family. Gotta raise all the little eventual taxpayers we can! For the future!

Nuts to that, kids. It's my life. The world is changing and society had better keep up.

[/end rant]

 

[TerribleTerryTate]

This whole concept is something I've came in contact with more times than I wish to remember. I am a 22 year old living in England. I probably play between 20-40 hours a week on games, ranging from Call of Duty 4 to World of Warcraft. Currently studying, and generally love gaming and playing music (drums.)
I drink, but not to excess. Don't start fights, or go around getting 'laid.'
My ex girlfriend who I wanted to marry at the time, finished with me then went into a relationship with another guy two weeks later. I grieved over it, but came out a stronger person. I spoke to family and friends to get over it. Judging by what this 'Journalist' - and I use that term lightly - is saying I should've went out getting drunk and high, and beating people up.

Because I play so much, and celebrate my 'inner geek' I am less of a person than someone who goes out killing/raping, and generally doing stupid things due to alcohol consumption?
Waiting for the right person to come along, to start a family with makes me less mature than someone who jumps into one, only to realise they've made a huge mistake, but it's too late because they are already married with 2 kids? Give me a break.

Maturity is just a word. Nothing more, nothing less. What one person judges as maturity, another laughs at. Although I find what she says disturbing, it doesn't offend me, because it is so completely untrue, I take it as a given she's wrong. If some random stranger tells me I'm a bad person, I'm not gonna lose sleep over it, because its rediculous. No difference here. Ignore this crap, and take it for what it is...retarded media rubbish.

 

[VikingRhetoric]

According to this woman, I am both mature and immature at the same time.I play a lot of video games, watch a lot of anime, but I also go out drinking with my friends and chase skirts(omgsounpc).I've even spent a few nights cooling off in the drunk tank at my local police station(Which may or may not give me bonus points).

It seems to me, the things she talks about being the proper, mature thing for a man my age(well, a few years older actually, I'm only 21 and she seems to be directing her hate at the mid 20s group.)are normally the things attributed to immature college dropouts.


It's baffling how skewed her thought process is.

 

[Fire Daemon]

Its good too see girl gamers raising their voices (or fingers) and proving this "journalist" wrong but you have to see this all from her perspective. Chances are in her days (20 years ago) she was going to all the raging parties and hooking up with all the guys and pretty much having large amounts of sex and drinking too much wine (like all frenck women). And apparently she's a singal mum with two children so she would probably trying to get back into the dating scene and maybe wind up with a young 20 yearold guy.

But shes tried to get back into the dating scene but found that men are no longer getting pissed and going crazy other her but instead they are ignoring her and would rather talk to each other about gears of war and chainsaw bayonets. She would be confused about this, In her day partying like crazy was the main pass time now its partying up with online friends like crazy.

She feels angered at this wants to vent some of her anger. Venting the anger does more then calm you down, when you vent you feel like it something or someone else fault, venting about not getting a guy makes you feel like its not your fault it there fault. Venting about a noob tactic makes the fact that you lost the noobs fault and not yours.

In her opinion (and many others aged 40+) games are for little boys who are still working out their 9 time tables, so when men who would rather play videogames then be with her she feels angered at this and can't understand why gamers don't want to be with her. So she comes up with the only example she can think of, gamers are not mature and have the brain of a 12 year old. We know this is pure fiction but she beleives it. And by ranting on a website (I know its a story but I only see it as a rant) she feels like what she believs is correct.

I can't understand why she thinks a mature (read: In her opinion a Real Man) man is a piss head how fucks anything that moves, unless this is because what a real man was thought to have been in her day.

 

[Girlysprite]

as for marriages and failures; I guess the failure rate went up because marriage changed so much. It used to be a bond where 2 people made one unit, and depended on each other; they wouldn't make it on their own. And if they could live with each other quite well, that was nice.

Nowadays people expect a soulmate, a deep bond. It can even be there in the beginning. People just forget that love and a relation is work too! It requires effort. But many people take it for granted and have a lot of hidden expectations and thoughts about their partner, but don't discuss it.

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

Again, the idea that all gamers are socially inept geeky men; we can be socially inept geeky women too!

And we love you for it. Have you any idea what it was like in Sci-Fi/Gaming conventions with only men? *shudders*

 

[Girlysprite]

Again, the idea that all gamers are socially inept geeky men; we can be socially inept geeky women too!

And we love you for it. Have you any idea what it was like in Sci-Fi/Gaming conventions with only men? *shudders*

And that is why you also sometimes find attention whores around. Luckily, not too many. I don't have an inner geek...I am an outer geek

 

[mitzi]

I didn't have time to run through all the posts on this thread, so this might have been mentioned already...but let me say first of all that I am a woman over the age of 25 and I am most certainly a gamer. I don't have kids - I don't want kids. I'm not married - and I don't have plans to ever get married. I enjoy gaming almost every day. According to this woman, I fall into the same "arrested adolescence' as the fictional class of men she writes about.

But the main reason I'm posting is that you should all know that this Times article by Kate Muir is almost COMPLETELY plagiarized from the even *more* infuriating article by Kay S. Hymowitz. Muir mentions it in passing in her crappy Cliff's Notes-style article, probably because she knows she stole directly from it and wants to cover her ass. Hymowitz's article is called "Child-Man in the Promised Land" (you can read it here [http://www.city-journal.org/2008/18_1_single_young_men.html]), and it's been discussed extensively in just about every blog on the net.

It's essentially just a very long piece that generalizes all men as hopeless children that just can't get their shit together to work at soul-crushing jobs and buy houses in the suburbs and make babies, which (according to Hymowitz) ALL WOMEN WANT. I can't tell you how angry that makes me as a woman - to have some woman claim that all women want is to get married and have babies. That sort of shit sets women back about fifty years.

Anyway - if you read through Hymowitz's article (it's long, but it really is worth a read, if only to get really fired up about this stuff), you'll see very clearly that Muir lifted her entire article from Hymowitz's piece. If nothing else, that proves that Muir is only riding the coattails of another person's made-up controversy, which makes her truly beneath contempt.

In the information age, it's all about page views. The more you piss people off, the more money you make. Goes to show that these women (who base their entire premise on how they feel and what they see, absent of any historical context) aren't worth any attention at all.

I do think there's something at the core of the issue; that is, that adolescence is a relatively new sociological concept, and it's interesting - even important - to consider why so many men are delaying marriage. But to blame it all on shiny toys and boobs is more than ludicrous.

I hate lazy scholarship that passes itself off as "Important New Information".

 

[Joe]

as for marriages and failures; I guess the failure rate went up because marriage changed so much. It used to be a bond where 2 people made one unit, and depended on each other; they wouldn't make it on their own. And if they could live with each other quite well, that was nice.

Nowadays people expect a soulmate, a deep bond. It can even be there in the beginning. People just forget that love and a relation is work too! It requires effort. But many people take it for granted and have a lot of hidden expectations and thoughts about their partner, but don't discuss it.

I think it's less about people's perception of marriage and more about how far we've come with human rights. Fifty years ago, a sizeable portion of the population couldn't get buried on holy ground if they were divorced, and an even greater amount of people thought it was morally reprehensible to divorce. For instance, my mother's mother divorced her husband after he cheated on her, which in the mid-'50s was a Big Deal. In order to be accepted by her peers back then, she had to move back in with her parents. I can only imagine what life would've been like for her if she had been the one cheating.

Nowadays, marriage is viewed less as a sacred tradition and more like how it probably should be: a lifestyle choice. Men and women both have better options if they're in a bad marital situation.

I do, though, agree with you that part of the reason marriages fail so often is due to what people are looking for in a spouse, now. After getting inundated with romantic comedies and Hallmark holidays, everyone expects the "happily ever after" part to be like the first six months, mostly because no one's educating people otherwise.

Funnily enough, the only person I know who teaches people about the realities of a long-term relationship is a Catholic deacon I'm friends with. Dude's been married 30 years and doesn't pull punches in the meetings Catholic couples are supposed to go through while they're engaged. Then again, he also admits a lot of the Bible is metaphor, so he's definitely not the norm.

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

There's nothing sweeter than "I told you so!"

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/men/article3370136.ece

 

[Echolocating]

I find it interesting (maybe amusing) that some people claim that they are waiting until they are ready to get married and have kids (like they'll never be able to play games again if they do)... all I have to say is that you're never truly ready.

I happened to marry a non-gamer wife (one of the most controversial things a gamer could ever do, I know) and, to be honest, it wasn't the end of my gaming at all. She had her own hobbies so we both gave each other much needed space. However, when we had our child... that was the end of everything. Sleep deprivation was the least of my concerns... I just didn't have any time whatsoever for anything personal. The last console game I played was Jade Empire on the Xbox... and I dedicated every moment I had to it; it took me 6 weeks to complete. Yeah...

Finally, after a few years... I can see a light at the end of the tunnel. My son is just old enough to start gaming. He rides his Smart Cycle every second day, we play some simple learning games on the computer... but I know he'll be ready for a Wii pretty darn soon. After that, he may have to fight me to play his games. ;-)

Marriage and parenthood aren't the end of gaming; it just happens to be a full stop... and then you slowly find your bearings again.

In a strange way, I think I'm lucky that the internet didn't really exist when I was a kid. I played enough games alone or with a few friends to occupy my time, but to have a legion of gamers to play with 24/7 when you're young and have no responsibilities to anyone else... well, I can see how hard it might be for some of the young adults to let go and pursue other "lifestyle choices." It's never been easier to hold onto your childhood than it is now, I'd say.

That said, I can't wait until my son gets into Transformers. ;-)

 

[Copter400]

I'm sorry to remind everyone here at the Escapist of this uneducated hate-speech, but I'd like you all to know that Kate's article will be used in my English seminar on the representation of geeks in the media.

I'm not joking. This is something I'm actually writing. Like, right now. I'll let y'all know how it goes.

 

[mshcherbatskaya]

I'm sorry to remind everyone here at the Escapist of this uneducated hate-speech, but I'd like you all to know that Kate's article will be used in my English seminar on the representation of geeks in the media.

I'm not joking. This is something I'm actually writing. Like, right now. I'll let y'all know how it goes.

Are you going to footnote us? That would be kind of awesome in a very post-modern sort of way, if you think about it. The medium is the message.

 

[Copter400]

I'm sorry to remind everyone here at the Escapist of this uneducated hate-speech, but I'd like you all to know that Kate's article will be used in my English seminar on the representation of geeks in the media.

I'm not joking. This is something I'm actually writing. Like, right now. I'll let y'all know how it goes.

Are you going to footnote us? That would be kind of awesome in a very post-modern sort of way, if you think about it. The medium is the message.

I'll make sure to mention this place when I list my sources.

 

[werepossum]

I was an infantry grunt in the Feminist Sex Wars [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminist_Sex_Wars] and I've been hit with so much friendly fire over the years, I set off airport metal detectors.

Been away from the thread, but this line is hilarious! And no doubt true. Reminded me of Camille Paglia's stuff. Shouldn't feminism be about giving women freemdom to choose a role rather than driving them into a different role? I'm still chuckling over your whole "Darfur" post as well. This has been an entertaining thread from many of the posters.

I personally found Kate Muir to be reasonably physically attractive; it doesn't actually matter, since I'm married and never going to meet her anyway, but I did find curious the attacks on her physical desirability. Presumably if Miss Muir were drop-dead gorgeous she'd be having the same difficulty in finding an acceptable mate (higher standards) but she wouldn't be any smarter. I do find it extremely funny in an ironic way when progressives want to break down traditional roles but then complain when the new roles are not what they wanted, but I don't know Muir falls into that category. Perhaps she is very traditional and is just lamenting our changing society. Or perhaps the flamers are correct; she can't find a mate because she is simply too annoying for her level of attractiveness. Regardless, I have to agree that articles complaining about how people are not behaving in the fashion the writer has selected for them to be highly annoying, and I tend to imagine the writer as rather vapid in most cases.

I think Joe and Girlysprite both had valid points about the failure rate of marriage, but it's undeniable as well that people as a whole have gotten way more selfish and self-centered. I don't think that has anything to do with Ms. Muir's point (or lack thereof), but it certainly has to do with the failure rate of marriage. Put another way, I don't think you have an obligation to go out and find a mate and marry; I DO think that if you do make that commitment, you have an obligation to put that person (and any children you may have) ahead of yourself. Far too many people marry without making that shift in priorities. I'd say from that standpoint, Ms. Muir should not be badgering even more people toward marriage before they are prepared.

Also, I am curious as to what got the Sniper banned, if the moderator would like to explain. (Unless it was curiousity, in which case kindly ignore this part of the post.)

 

[Copter400]

Also, I am curious as to what got the Sniper banned, if the moderator would like to explain. (Unless it was curiousity, in which case kindly ignore this part of the post.)

He swears. Like, all the time.

 

[Terramax]

The Times, like all papers, are fearmongers. They're paid to write articles that deliberately cause anger, hate and biasness. I wouldn't even influence people to even go read the article on their site, as for every 'hit' the page gets, money is given to this parasite so she may write more articles.

That being said, I am willing to take some of her thoughts into consideration. I don't agree with games like 'Gears of War', at least I don't agree with a great majority of games for sale being about violence on a very brutal scale. But instead of moaning about it, I do what I think to be the more constructive thing of not buying those games and grabbing Viva Pinata, Sega Rally and We Love Katamari.

But I would love to ask this woman one question: Are computer games promoting violence to men any more than soap operas like Coronation Street, Eastenders and Hollyoaks are influencing women to go out irrasponsibly shacking up with every man on the street?

 

[werepossum]

The Times, like all papers, are fearmongers. They're paid to write articles that deliberately cause anger, hate and biasness. I wouldn't even influence people to even go read the article on their site, as for every 'hit' the page gets, money is given to this parasite so she may write more articles.

That being said, I am willing to take some of her thoughts into consideration. I don't agree with games like 'Gears of War', at least I don't agree with a great majority of games for sale being about violence on a very brutal scale. But instead of moaning about it, I do what I think to be the more constructive thing of not buying those games and grabbing Viva Pinata, Sega Rally and We Love Katamari.

But I would love to ask this woman one question: Are computer games promoting violence to men any more than soap operas like Coronation Street, Eastenders and Hollyoaks are influencing women to go out irrasponsibly shacking up with every man on the street?

Chuck Harder had a quote from journalism school: If it bleeds it leads, if it thinks it stinks.

I personally don't like games like Grand Theft Auto; I don't mind violence, but I like for it to be in a good cause. It's important to remember however that it's all imaginary; my "good cause" isn't any more real than another's cop-shooting GTA adventure, and has the same effect (i.e. none) on reality. I do think it's important not to sell violent, "T" or "M" rated games to those underage. Hopefully parents will monitor their children's intake of violence in any form.

 

[mshcherbatskaya]

I was an infantry grunt in the Feminist Sex Wars [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminist_Sex_Wars] and I've been hit with so much friendly fire over the years, I set off airport metal detectors.

Been away from the thread, but this line is hilarious! And no doubt true. Reminded me of Camille Paglia's stuff. Shouldn't feminism be about giving women freemdom to choose a role rather than driving them into a different role? I'm still chuckling over your whole "Darfur" post as well. This has been an entertaining thread from many of the posters.

One of the reasons I took so much fire is that I switched sides in the middle. No Woman's Land is a dangerous territory, which is why I think Paglia went kind of batsh*t from marching back and forth in the middle of it. On an odd tangent, I remember an interview with Paglia in which she complained that she couldn't get a girlfriend and that's why she wrote some of the things she did. Maybe she and Kate Muir could hang out.

The plight of the women of Darfur is something that makes me sick to my stomach whenever I think of it, and it's sort of my baseline reality check on what is worth getting all wound up about.

 

[werepossum]

One of the reasons I took so much fire is that I switched sides in the middle. No Woman's Land is a dangerous territory, which is why I think Paglia went kind of batsh*t from marching back and forth in the middle of it. On an odd tangent, I remember an interview with Paglia in which she complained that she couldn't get a girlfriend and that's why she wrote some of the things she did. Maybe she and Kate Muir could hang out.

The plight of the women of Darfur is something that makes me sick to my stomach whenever I think of it, and it's sort of my baseline reality check on what is worth getting all wound up about.

Yeah, that's politics. Nothing in the middle of the road but dead skunks, and good luck crossing. The plight of all Christians and animists in Darfur is truly horrid, and like most African and Arab Muslim nations the plight of women is terrible at best. Another success for gun control; the Christians and animists were disarmed, and now they're being killed with machetes. And often in supposedly safe UN refugee camps. Being a Christian or animist female in Darfur has got to be the worst experience available in humanity today, rather like being Jewish in WW2 Nazi Germany. It's like being in Hell - except you're in the worst part of Hell.