Video Games blamed for US Massacre in Iraq

[Jamash]

They've got it backwards if you ask me.

It's not that the pilots were acting out a videogame, it's that videogames are more and more resembling real world military situation, so the media has a civilian past time with which to draw similarities to.

If this had happened during the first Gulf War, I doubt they would have implied the pilots were acting out Desert Strike, but nowadays with videogames being in the media spotlight and the advent of more realistic, first person modern warfare games (especially that AC-10 gun-cam level in COD4), the media can incorrectly compare what happens in war to videogames.

They would be somewhat justified if they criticised that AC-10 gun-cam level in COD4 by saying it makes entertainment out of situations like this massacre, but they're wrong in suggesting this massacre occurred because of videogames.

 

[asgardmothership]

It's pretty sad that rather than any specific argument they simply use the trite "its videogames fault" to explain their behaviour. It seems this refers to the call of duty 4 sequence when you act as the AC-130 gunner. The stark impersonality of that sequence is certainly startling, as is the phrases such as "Wo! Hot damn!" But this is videogames emulating life, NOT the other way around. Yes, the US military demonstrates a casual disregard for life when at the barrel of a gun 2 miles away, that may be, in that situation inevitable. That videogames emulate and ultimately highlight this, only serves to show there is a problem, not be the problem itself. It's this kind of unintelligent twaddle which gives intelligent journalism a bad name. Grr!

 

[PatrickXD]

so...did they get the high score?

They would have, but they got points deducted for each civilian killed. If it wasn't for the mission complete bonus they would have actually lost points.

You forgot that windscreen shot. That scored a x5 multiplier on subsequent kills.

 

[sumanoskae]

God, this is usually the part when I go on a rant... but I just can't deal with this crap today. We've heard it before, we all know it's why idiotic, call me when when you break out the soap boxes and pitchforks

 

[Prof. Monkeypox]

That really came out of nowhere. One minute they're like "this is horrible... the army is looking into this incident...etc." and the next words out of their mouth are "generation X-box," with no transition in between.

What does one have to do with the other? They don't even explain what made them believe this. There is some serious bigotry going on in the anti-video game world.

 

[BonsaiK]

The Story was announced on yahoo news [http://uk.news.yahoo.com/5/20100406/twl-let-us-shoot-us-troops-fire-on-journ-3fd0ae9.html]

A tragic loss of life, innocent civilians die when they are mistaken for insurgents. So whats to blame for this loss of life? Is it lack of conformation? Is it a break in the chain of command giving authorization to fire on innocent?

Nope... Its obviously "Generation X-Box" going for high scores.

Why bother challenging the way the military conducts itself in urban warfare, when we can just blame it all on Video Games?

Your thread title is deceptive and you should change it. The Wikileaks guy doesn't explicitly blame video games for the massacre. He's just comparing the attitudes of the soldiers to that of gamers to illustrate the point he is trying to make, which is the desensitization of the soldiers.

Check out this more detailed analysis. Watch the WHOLE THING. Video games are also mentioned, several times. Once again video games are NOT actually blamed, but referred to in order make the point about the soldiers' fairly callous attitudes (of which I'm not personally making a judgement about, having never been in war myself).


It's not an unreasonable comparison to make, and it's a comparison that is being made to criticise the military machine, not computer games. I realise that Escapists get very defensive due to so many negative portrayals of video games in the media, however it's not warranted to be so defensive in this instance. Gamers are not being attacked here. They are being used as a metaphor to attack something else.

Here's a more in-depth interview with the Wikileaks co-founder, in case you're interested. It's clear that he's not on an anti-video game crusade, he's more interested in the effect the video might have on reforming the military.

 

[StarStruckStrumpets]

Uh, they clearly weren't blaming video games in that article, I think the comparison was more that they were treating the people they were shooting at like virtual characters and trying to go for the 'high score.' In this case it seems to be you that's overeacting.

My thoughts exactly. It was still pretty sickening though.

 

[Chrinik]

Well, for me the only reason is that the cameras in the Apache are shite and not HD capable, and the live-stream fed to the headquarters takes several minutes because of the server capabilitys of youtube lacking, and that a simple "hey, i think this guy has a gun" results in a "BLAST THEM!" answer from some dickhead 50 miles away...

To be serious tho, the problem is not that our troops wouldn´t be able to defend themselfs, it´s just that they wouldn´t be able to engage freely without being threatened.
Like when Iraqis have a wedding, and shoot in the air with AKs, any american trooper seeing that requests a permission to join the party with a 250lb JDAM.
Defence is different from an attack, this was clearly an unprovoked attack.
Like how the US troops just blasted their allies and civilians in Afghanistan during an offensive because they somehow lost track of where the enemy was supposed to be and shot at trucks coming from the opposite direction.
What did MacCrystal do? Apologize...
When german troops bombed 2 fueltrucks captured by the Taliban in the middle of the night, and someone said all the guys around the trucks could have been civilians, and the CO said "Coleteral damage may occur, what are they doing there helping the Taliban anyway?", it resulted in him being criminalized, a complete change of command (Generalinspecteur and minister of defence (who never admited afghanistan is a war) stepped back) and a mayor outrage in the civilian populace of germany.
The outcry was astounding...everyone was suddenly against our involment there, even the US government<.<
Now 3 soldiers died because our restricted supply of artillery, weaponry and other equipment, NOW the uproar is for better equipment for our troops, to deploy some PZH2000 like the Dutch do and all the sympathy is with the soldiers...

And BTW can you tell from 1000m away if the Iraqi over there isn´t actually Iraqi army, armed with AK-47s conducting their duty that some american asked them to do? Should you shoot at anything that MIGHT be a threat?
If yes then we should probably nuke the whole planet in advance because "the other countrys could become a threat to us at some point..."

 

[Void(null)]

It's not an unreasonable comparison to make, and it's a comparison that is being made to criticise the military machine, not computer games. I realise that Escapists get very defensive due to so many negative portrayals of video games in the media, however it's not warranted to be so defensive in this instance.

Here's a more in-depth interview with the Wikileaks co-founder, in case you're interested.

I agree that there is a greater overarching message. But why bring Video Games into the picture to begin with? They are making statements about the desensitization of soldiers linking it to the stereotypical desensitization of Gamers. What do they want, for our Soldiers to cry and weep and mourn for every life lost? Thats simply not what happens in War. The grim ugly truth is that in order for human beings to conduct these acts against other human beings... they have to dehumanize the enemy. That has been the truth of war for over 4000 years.

The comments about Games from the Reporter and the Founder of Wikileaks in regards to games and the Soldiers "going for a high score" are needless, biased and prejudiced and do an injustice to the rest of their message.

 

[magicmonkeybars]

Better ten dead civillians then one dead soldier.
This weapon system has saved far more innocent lives then it's taken.
The alternative is sending troops down to check it out from the ground which raises the chance of ambush and soldiers dying.
How many of our people are you wiling to lose over a few dead civilians ?
If anyone is to blame it's the people who started the war and those who keep it going.

 

[BonsaiK]

It's not an unreasonable comparison to make, and it's a comparison that is being made to criticise the military machine, not computer games. I realise that Escapists get very defensive due to so many negative portrayals of video games in the media, however it's not warranted to be so defensive in this instance.

Here's a more in-depth interview with the Wikileaks co-founder, in case you're interested.

I agree that there is a greater overarching message. But why bring Video Games into the picture to begin with? They are making statements about the desensitization of soldiers linking it to the stereotypical desensitization of Gamers. What do they want, for our Soldiers to cry and weep and mourn for every life lost? Thats simply not what happens in War. The grim ugly truth is that in order for human beings to conduct these acts against other human beings... they have to dehumanize the enemy. That has been the truth of war for over 4000 years.

The comments about Games from the Reporter and the Founder of Wikileaks in regards to games and the Soldiers "going for a high score" are needless, biased and prejudiced and do an injustice to the rest of their message.

I agree with you, but that's a whole separate issue to what this thread claims to be about.

 

[ImpostorZim]

So... do they just get away with accidentally killing 12 people? Mistake or not, that is multiple homicide caused by unnecesary violence... am I right?

 

[UberNoodle]

The Story was announced on yahoo news [http://uk.news.yahoo.com/5/20100406/twl-let-us-shoot-us-troops-fire-on-journ-3fd0ae9.html]

A tragic loss of life, innocent civilians die when they are mistaken for insurgents. So whats to blame for this loss of life? Is it lack of conformation? Is it a break in the chain of command giving authorization to fire on innocent?

Nope... Its obviously "Generation X-Box" going for high scores.

Why bother challenging the way the military conducts itself in urban warfare, when we can just blame it all on Video Games?

Because soldiers never did anything like this in the good old days.
At the break of the seige of Troy, the good guys started killing babies! Ahh .. makes you pine for those wonderful, pure days, before comics, rock and videogames!

 

[Julianking93]

Are you fucking kidding me? Who the hell is stupid enough to think that this was caused by video games???

 

[JWAN]

That poor dead horse

Which one?

 

[Void(null)]

So... do they just get away with accidentally killing 12 people? Mistake or not, that is multiple homicide caused by unnecesary violence... am I right?

Not if you happen to be in the military. That's simply a casualty of war.

Laws for Civilians and Laws for Military Personnel in a battle situation are very different.

 

[BonsaiK]

Are you fucking kidding me? Who the hell is stupid enough to think that this was caused by video games???

Nobody. Obviously you've made the same mistake that the OP has. Read my post at the top of this page.

 

[Void(null)]

Are you fucking kidding me? Who the hell is stupid enough to think that this was caused by video games???

Nobody. Obviously you've made the same mistake that the OP has. Read my post at the top of this page.

I didn't make a "Mistake" simply because I do not agree with your point of view. It is an unreasonable and prejudiced comparison to make, and its one based upon the point of view that all gamers are desensitized psychopathic killers in the making.

That happens to be my point of view, that point of view differs from yours... that does not make me "Mistaken."

 

[JWAN]

Massacre...

Well considering they thought they were insurgents and they used the best weapon they had on board for dealing with soft targets with the most minimal chance of causing collateral damage this doesn't fall under "indiscriminate killing".

It was a fucking accident, get over it.