Video games can't do horror.

[DrOswald]

I wrote a post for another thread, and after reflecting on it for a bit, I found that it's a very accurate statement.

[Horror] simply doesn't translate to video games. You can't accurately capture what makes Xenomorphs scary if the protagonist cannot fail. But if the protagonist was capable of dying permanently (whether through a scripted event or just persistence like ZombiU), then you would be right back here complaining that it's Call of Duty all over again.

Pure horror just isn't something that video games do well, because the aforementioned fact that you absolutely cannot fail. For example, Dead Space 2. They put a lot of effort into trying to make you feel unsafe in the vents...but the vents were where I felt safest, specifically because you were completely defenseless inside of them. If a Necromorph were to legitimately attack you there, then you would have no chance to stave off your death. A video game can't allow that, and so vents = safe.

I could even use Amnesia as an example. Amnesia wasn't scary because you were never backed into a corner. There was always a way to proceed, you just needed to find it. No matter how powerful the monsters were or how weak you are, as long as success is inevitable, it's not horror. There's just nothing to fear.

No matter how powerful an enemy or obstacle seems, it is not insurmountable. You can overcome it. You are inherently better than it, simply because you can defeat it without exception.

Now, I want to know if anyone agrees with this viewpoint. That if you absolutely cannot fail given the mechanics of a game, then true horror cannot exist. If not, why not?

The horror genre is not about making you afraid you are going to fail. If that were the case then VVVVVV and I Wanna be the Guy should qualify as the most horrifying games of all time.

The horror genre is about tension and apprehension. Now, it is entirely possible that you do not find any video game scary. That is fine. I personally don't find horror movies scary in the least. But that does not mean that movies or video games cannot make good horror, only that people are frightened by different things.

You made a very strong argument for why you do not find horror video games scary. Good job. You mistake was in expecting everyone else to be like you.

 

[Phuctifyno]

OP

Like you, I'm unable to find games very scary, but for very different reasons. For me, horror is physical and visceral. It has less to do with abstract concepts, profound mysteries, or inner-refelction as it does with demonic faces or threatening atmosphere. To scare me, it must be physically real, evil and warped.

Think Regan from The Exorcist; or the demons in the first two Evil Deads; the disgusting body-horror in Carpenter's The Thing, or Cronenberg's The Fly; actual corpses in Poltergeist, even the melting face in Raiders Of The Lost Ark gets me a little (while the heart pulling in Temple Of Doom does nothing). I had an imaginary Xenomorph under my bed from ages 7 to 12. The list can go on, but basically the 70's and 80's were pretty much a golden age because of where special effects were at.

Ultimately, I do think horror is too subjective to claim that it is not possible in video games. For good reasons, many have already stated that they find horror games scarier than horror movies. Being the one in control of the protagonist (not because of success or failure, but for being the one who has to has to put your hand in the toilet) is probably the best defense. I can see where that comes from, though I also feel it more as tension.

To myself and others like me (psshh, who am I kidding?), horror games (and horror books, unfortunately) are mostly ineffective for the same reason that most horror movies made after the advent of CGI are; they have an inability to trick my conscious self and reach into my subconscious. i.e. They don't look real.

 

[Kopikatsu]

Video games can't do horror my arse.

Sure, most of them fail, but it can be done.

I would attribute a lot of the failures to many developer's apparent inability to conceive of a game where they don't give the player a weapon.

As mentioned, Amensia is not scary for the following reasons:

1. You quickly learn that the capabilities of the enemies, that they are dumb and slow- and you cannot look directly at them for longer than a few seconds. It's incredibly easy to outwit or simply hide from them until they pass. You are stronger than they are. Perhaps not physically, but mentally.

2. Everything is explained to you. You come to know what the monsters are, who Alexander is, and even what Daniel once was. There is no mystery or sense of the unknown, because it's all laid out for you.

3. No matter how hopeless a situation seems, there is always a solution. Daniel is like some kind of Terminator that absolutely cannot be stopped, whether through gameplay or the narrative, only inconvenienced.

But if you had a game where these things did not exist (You never learn about the things you encounter or what their purpose is, you cannot accurately grasp what it is that you are fighting, and that you cannot always succeed)...then that would be a terrible game, right? I doubt many people would play it.

Edit: Now that I think about it, what I described sounds a lot like a game concept that I came up with a long while ago. Hmm...

 

[Darken12]

I'm going to be brief and to the point:

Horror is personal. That right there is the big secret about the horror genre in all forms of media. That's why there are so many different takes on it, because each person has a different set of buttons to push in order to make them feel scared.

Some people aren't afraid of something they can actually see (which is why they praise older movies, where special effects required shots not to linger too much on the gore or monsters, or literature, where it's all in your imagination). Some people aren't afraid of movies and books, because they are passive spectators and don't get that invested in the characters (they experience the horror as a diffused, distant emotion), but become terrified with the interactivity of a videogame. Some people, like me, aren't afraid of the Everyone Can (and Will) Die trope. On the contrary, it absolutely kills horror for me and sends me straight into apathy (if everyone is going to die, why should I care about anything?).

You can't have one formula for doing horror right, just like you can't have one formula for anything. Instead of trying to oversimplify something that is inherently complex, we should instead celebrate all the different takes on horror, in all its different media, as different experiences with the same goal. Some people like the atmosphere and jump scares and want an immortal protagonist so that they can continue to enjoy the atmosphere and jump scares. Others couldn't care less about that and want a fallible protagonist so that they can feel invested in the threat. Both are incompatible, yet both are perfectly valid takes on horror. Just because I find the latter depressing instead of horrifying doesn't mean I have the ultimate say on what horror is.

Because horror is personal.

EDIT:

This is a great example of how different horror can be from person to person.

2. Everything is explained to you. You come to know what the monsters are, who Alexander is, and even what Daniel once was. There is no mystery or sense of the unknown, because it's all laid out for you.

This drives me insane. When a game presents me with questions, I expect them to be answered. I absolutely cannot stomach the idea that unsolved mysteries are good. No. Just no. Mysteries are there to be solved. Unsolved mysteries aren't scary at all, they are extremely irritating (to me).

3. No matter how hopeless a situation seems, there is always a solution. Daniel is like some kind of Terminator that absolutely cannot be stopped, whether through gameplay or the narrative, only inconvenienced.

Isn't a book or a movie exactly like that, too? I mean, a videogame can kill off a main character and jump to another with the same ease as a movie or a book (meaning: it's not done lightly). This isn't a problem of videogames, every movie and book is also a tale of a fated protagonist (because the book/script has been written, and so their journey has been fated).

It's also irrelevant, because if a character fails, they fail because the author deemed it so: it was fated, regardless of the media. Isn't a character dying in a cutscene or to an impossible enemy just as arbitrary as them overcoming every obstacle before that? I'll answer that for you: yes, it is. If you are going to get metaphysical on the metatextuality of entertainment media, be prepared to go all the way. Success and failure are exactly the same and indistinguishable once a story has been written, and depend only on the eyes of the beholder. Without going too far, and avoiding spoilers: the ending to The Cabin in the Woods. Failure? Success? It's entirely subjective.

No character is ever truly fallible. All will do what they are meant to do; only that, and nothing more. I, personally, prefer stories where they are meant to succeed, rather than fail. If I wanted stories of fallible people who met their ends in a scary or tragic manner, I'd watch the news.

 

[Zhukov]

[snip]

As mentioned, Amensia is not scary for the following reasons:

I found Amnesia scary. It made me scared.

Lots of other people found Amnesia scary.

You can present arguments trying to prove that I somehow misinterpreted my own emotions until the proverbial cows come home. Bottom line is that if a game is designed with the intent to scare me and then manages to scare then I consider that game to be scary.

If there is game out there that I consider scary then as far as I'm concerned, games can indeed do horror.

 

[Cybele]

To put it very plainly.
For me, horror = being scared and I was scared shitless while playing Amnesia or Thief: Deadly Shadows.
So there's your answer...

 

[Loonyyy]

Nerp.

Horror exists in the moment. Your statement is incoherent.

Can no tension exist in an action movie, simply because Western narratives typically involve the triumph of the protagonist? Can there be no tension upon rewatching the film?

Of course tension can exist, and it exists in the way that the film is capable of immersing you. We all know John McLane's going to survive, there's 4 other movies he's in. We all know the rock won't crush Indy, there's still like 100 minutes of film left. We know Harry Potter's going to succeed, he's the title character, and there's an entire series, he's not going to die on the first obstacle.

Tension, whether it be in an action or horror title, exists through the conveyance of emotion to the audience. People are terrified in Amnesia because they don't know if they'll make it, and they can't fight back. People are disturbed by FEAR, because they've no idea what's going on, and the supernatural outweighs the power given to the protagonist. Dead Space creates an atmosphere of malaise, and then shocks the audience with gore and suprise. We don't know what's happening in STALKER, but we know we're perilously fragile, and that our enemies are unknown to us. Games, if anything, have an advantage. If you fuck up, the rock crushes Indy, McLane gets shot, and Harry falls off his broomstick and breaks his neck. There can be failure. We KNOW we can fail. Of course, as Shamus Young mentioned, failing doesn't actually help the immersion, but just knowing we can fail adds to the tension.

Horror is just as possible in a video game. And if you think the protagonist has to succeed, or survive, in a videogame, look at Call of Duty, which in the 4th installment killed off a protagonist to prove a point (Before subsequently doing it to death in the sequels). Read Darren Shan's novels, there's no reason why the protagonist can't die, especially if you have multiple protagonists, and there's no reason that you can't have things beyond death.

More to the point, the success of horror, action, or romance, is not the end point of the story. It is the journey. If you identify with the romance, if you recoil at the horror, if you are excited by the action, it is a success. And games can do this as well as anything else.

 

[deathbydeath]

No matter how powerful an enemy or obstacle seems, it is not insurmountable. You can overcome it. You are inherently better than it, simply because you can defeat it without exception.

Except that that's not the first thing that comes to mind when I get blindsided by a gang of mercenaries in STALKER. When I'm trying to get the achievement for only using the gravity gun in Ravenholm, there's a literal swarm of fast zombies screeching at my heels, and there are no physics objects in sight, I'm not thinking "Well, now seems like a good time to reload a save doesn't it?".

Sure, when I play VVVVVV or Hotline Miami, frequent deaths for the sake of trial and error is prominent in how I approach the game, but in all of the games where I "get scared", the mechanics push me away from "I want to die continually to get my bearings" over to "I don't want to die at all".

As a sidenote, I'd wager that that's why Limbo was such a bad game: It attempted to mix constant death, trial/error jumping puzzles with creepy atmosphere and pseudo-horror.

 

[Ashadowpie]

i dont know, people have different responses to fear. for example Fatal Frame didnt scare me when i played it because im not afraid of ghosts. Monsters on the other hand. they're more scary to me but the most terrifying thing in games is being chased by a monster that can kill you easily. Endermen for example in minecraft. yah they're not scary looking but the found they make and then disappear only to pop out of know where BEHIND YOU and kill you and disappear again i was screaming and freaking out like i was playing Dead Space.

theres somthing about Monsters that scare me alot. i think it has to do with the fact that they are manifested by the twisted human imagination thinking a truly scary thing. the dim staring red eyes and the needle like teeth, hiding in the shadows waiting....just for you. * shudders *

 

[Mr Cwtchy]

Having just done another stint in my second playthrough of Amnesia(I went from the beginning of the Refinery up to the Back Hall), I can safely call BS to the title. Even after watching numerous LPs, funny reaction videos, and completing it once before, the game still puts me right on edge.

Especially the part where

Spoiler

you have to run away from the water monster, slamming doors behind you as you go. The thing was probably like three closed doors behind me, but the audio didn't give that impression, and I SURE AS HELL wasn't going to turn around and check. Didn't help when my mum came home part way through and raised her voice at me(cuz of the headphones and stuff). Nearly busted an artery.

So yeah. Games can do horror, and they can do it very, very, very well.

Jesus fucking Christ..

 

[lacktheknack]

If a game intends to scare me and succeeds, I regard it as successful horror.

Silent Hill 3, Penumbra, and Amnesia scared me.

Therefore...

 

[ninjaRiv]

SOMEBODY hasn't played Penumbra or Silent Hill.

But seriously, your argument seems incredibly flawed. You're basing this on the protagonist? Well, sometimes protagonists can die in video games. All your work battling bosses, sneaking past evil and collecting things can all be for nothing. That's pretty unsettling.

Yeah, uncertainty is a big thing in horror and that's why I kind of agree with Cliffy B when he said horror games are more of a rental genre. But hardcore horror game fans like myself like replaying this shit. But games don't suffer from having to abide by the same codes and conventions of a film so much. Enemies can be randomly generated, puzzles can have different difficulties etc. If you've been scared while playing a video game, it has successfully created horror.

Also, personally I find horror games scarier than films. I've never turned a horror film off because I needed to watch something happy but I have had to quit Penumbra to chill out. That shit is scary. Those guys know how to do jump scares and a sense of impending doom, am I right?

 

[zumbledum]

I wrote a post for another thread, and after reflecting on it for a bit, I found that it's a very accurate statement.

[Horror] simply doesn't translate to video games. You can't accurately capture what makes Xenomorphs scary if the protagonist cannot fail. But if the protagonist was capable of dying permanently (whether through a scripted event or just persistence like ZombiU), then you would be right back here complaining that it's Call of Duty all over again.

Pure horror just isn't something that video games do well, because the aforementioned fact that you absolutely cannot fail. For example, Dead Space 2. They put a lot of effort into trying to make you feel unsafe in the vents...but the vents were where I felt safest, specifically because you were completely defenseless inside of them. If a Necromorph were to legitimately attack you there, then you would have no chance to stave off your death. A video game can't allow that, and so vents = safe.

I could even use Amnesia as an example. Amnesia wasn't scary because you were never backed into a corner. There was always a way to proceed, you just needed to find it. No matter how powerful the monsters were or how weak you are, as long as success is inevitable, it's not horror. There's just nothing to fear.

No matter how powerful an enemy or obstacle seems, it is not insurmountable. You can overcome it. You are inherently better than it, simply because you can defeat it without exception.

Now, I want to know if anyone agrees with this viewpoint. That if you absolutely cannot fail given the mechanics of a game, then true horror cannot exist. If not, why not?

No i dont agree. back 20+ years i was sat in my room at my parents playing a game of Aliens on my C64 and it was the most intense scary nerve wracking experience i could only play one game then had to have a break it got that intense

oo someone did a remake of it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQat4obE2T8

thing is horror is pretty niche , you cant do it in a big budget game because it doesn't make money, the best place for it in a big game is an A-symmetrical multiplayer like Left for dead or aliens colonial marines. there a bit too fast paced still but last survivor running for the exit can get pretty hairy.

 

[Risingblade]

Corspe Party seemed to do horror pretty well.

 

[Lawnmooer]

Video Games do have the capabilities of bringing Horror.

Survival Horror - Where you have very limited supplies and where death holds a negative consequence - Usually the loss of time spent since the last checkpoint. This relies less on the generation of Fear and more the increased Tension involved causing emotional reactions in the player (Adrenaline surges when close to death, panic etc)

Scary Horror - It's possible to do (Though very difficult) through creating characters whom are likeable and having things such as an Unknown monster stalking you/them (The Unknown is more scarier than the Known) or even having it so that player actions can cause permanent death in characters, it's even possible to have likeable characters have their personalities compromised so that they become unrecognisable or commit atrocities (Murder/Suicide)

Though Scary Horror is much harder to do since unlike other media forms (Books/Films)Gamers like to get complete reviews of the game before they're released, especially when potentially good new mechanics are involved (Such as ones that would allow Fear to become a factor) which usually spoils most of the effect that is caused (Hard to be scared by something you know is coming)

 

[ninjaRiv]

I wrote a post for another thread, and after reflecting on it for a bit, I found that it's a very accurate statement.

[Horror] simply doesn't translate to video games. You can't accurately capture what makes Xenomorphs scary if the protagonist cannot fail. But if the protagonist was capable of dying permanently (whether through a scripted event or just persistence like ZombiU), then you would be right back here complaining that it's Call of Duty all over again.

Pure horror just isn't something that video games do well, because the aforementioned fact that you absolutely cannot fail. For example, Dead Space 2. They put a lot of effort into trying to make you feel unsafe in the vents...but the vents were where I felt safest, specifically because you were completely defenseless inside of them. If a Necromorph were to legitimately attack you there, then you would have no chance to stave off your death. A video game can't allow that, and so vents = safe.

I could even use Amnesia as an example. Amnesia wasn't scary because you were never backed into a corner. There was always a way to proceed, you just needed to find it. No matter how powerful the monsters were or how weak you are, as long as success is inevitable, it's not horror. There's just nothing to fear.

No matter how powerful an enemy or obstacle seems, it is not insurmountable. You can overcome it. You are inherently better than it, simply because you can defeat it without exception.

Now, I want to know if anyone agrees with this viewpoint. That if you absolutely cannot fail given the mechanics of a game, then true horror cannot exist. If not, why not?

"[Horror] simply doesn't translate to video games. You can't accurately capture what makes Xenomorphs scary if the protagonist cannot fail. But if the protagonist was capable of dying permanently (whether through a scripted event or just persistence like ZombiU), then you would be right back here complaining that it's Call of Duty all over again."
Video game protagonists can die, so... You know. But I covered this in a previous post in this thread.

"Pure horror just isn't something that video games do well, because the aforementioned fact that you absolutely cannot fail. For example, Dead Space 2. They put a lot of effort into trying to make you feel unsafe in the vents...but the vents were where I felt safest, specifically because you were completely defenseless inside of them. If a Necromorph were to legitimately attack you there, then you would have no chance to stave off your death. A video game can't allow that, and so vents = safe.
Did they intentionally try to put their biggest horror elements into these vents? I'm asking because I don't know. But even still, this point doesn't really make sense. The protagonist can't die halfway through a film, right? So you know they're safe until at least the end. Obviously, they can die. Just like they can die in video games. But a new protagonist has to take over.

"I could even use Amnesia as an example. Amnesia wasn't scary because you were never backed into a corner. There was always a way to proceed, you just needed to find it. No matter how powerful the monsters were or how weak you are, as long as success is inevitable, it's not horror. There's just nothing to fear."
Amnesia was scary, man. A protagonist has the same escape option. Like I said, they might die but not until the end. But with a film the escape is already planned out and you don't have to think it through. In a game, you need to see all ways out within the short time it takes for a bad guy to attack.

It seems your entire argument is based on the protagonists survival, right? I'm sorry but I think your argument is incredibly flawed.

 

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

I disagree entirely. Video games are the only medium that does horror well because you are personally involved. Your life (virtual of course) is at stake. I absolutely hate horror movies because they always fail to get me involved. I don't give a crap about the plot, I don't give a crap about the characters. And these modern horror movies are idiotic. They are all about blood and gore. Pathetic.

agreed

i can't possibly think of the last movie that gave me anything beyond a slight jump scare, might have been paranormal activity in the theater because the volume jumped from zero to a trillion with the jump scare, otherwise most "horror" for me is simply "comedy".

If video games can't do horror, then I sure as hell don't know what will. It might be possible, but I truly laugh at the pathetic attempt a book might try to make as "horror" (trying to scare/depress you, not the fact that it is written scary.)

 

[Kopikatsu]

Did they intentionally try to put their biggest horror elements into these vents? I'm asking because I don't know. But even still, this point doesn't really make sense. The protagonist can't die halfway through a film, right? So you know they're safe until at least the end. Obviously, they can die. Just like they can die in video games. But a new protagonist has to take over.

Biggest elements? Not really. Like, there were Necromorphs in the vents with you sometimes, but always just out of sight. They never threatened you in any way that mattered, although they tried very hard to make it seem like they would.

It seems your entire argument is based on the protagonists survival, right? I'm sorry but I think your argument is incredibly flawed.

Even if the protagonist dies, it's irrelevant because the narrative continues. Even if you're given a new avatar to play with, nothing has fundamentally changed about the game. Resident Evil: Outbreak for example. One of the characters was a Security Guard with a handgun. He could be killed at any time during the game and when he died, you played as someone else. Even if the next person had no weapons to defend themselves, changing the dynamic of the game...the game has not changed. You still know about the different types of zombies, how they work, what they do. You do not fear an ambush by a Licker, because you know how to deal with it from your past experiences.

For a movie...the protagonist can simply be made to putz around for the duration, right up until their untimely demise (whether it's death or otherwise) and have not learned anything. They don't know what the nature of the monster is, or what it's capabilities are. Where it came from. Nothing. That can't fly in a video game. I mentioned it previously, but Amensia serves as a decent example of htis. You're learn what the monsters are capable of, where they came from, who Alexander is, and even what Daniel was. There is no mystery or sense of the unknown. You're superior to the monsters because you can outwit and escape them. In a book or movie, that's not a guaranteed possibility. It's entirely possible for the entire cast to meet their end after their first or second encounter with the antagonist(s) because it is simply better. In a video game, those roles are reversed. There aren't many people who would want a game where you're killed, go irreparably insane, or whatever else on your first encounter with whatever the antagonist is, yeah?

Let me put it this way. What is it that makes a game scary, what turns it into horror? It's extremely easy to disturb a human. For example, you can force emotions through certain sounds, because they essentially trick the brain. Infrasound, for example, can even cause the human mind to hallucinate as well as cause anxiety, fear, and revulsion. I would argue that games were people feel are 'horror' simply fool people into thinking they are with techniques like Infrasound.

 

[Proverbial Jon]

No matter how powerful an enemy or obstacle seems, it is not insurmountable. You can overcome it. You are inherently better than it, simply because you can defeat it without exception.

Perhaps you don't understand how fear works.

I'm terrified of spiders. I'll run a mile if one comes near me. But I'm pretty certain that physically I can overcome the threat. That spider doesn't terrify me because it can overpower me. It terrifies me for reasons I can't adequately quantify... that is what makes it so scary for me.

Silent Hill did this best. The environment was just repulsive and disturbing. It was nothing to do with scripted events or jump scares, just being in that world was horror enough for me.

Also: The threat that is least seen is quite possibly the most effective. What is it? Where has it gone? Is it hostile? Can it kill me? Why does it LOOK like that? Are questions that Silent Hill makes me ask myself on a regular basis. Dead Space however, well it's business as usual. Necromorphs are twisted humans re-purposed to kill and they all want to eat your face. Yawn.

Recent horror games have all failed, especially Dead Space, because they don't seem to understand this basic premise.

 

[m19]

Amnesia wasn't scary because you were never backed into a corner.

It was scarier than anything I've ever seen or read in any other media.