Villains you felt sympathy for, but felt you weren't meant to?

[deleted_by_strongbad]

Sephiroth from FF7.
1) He is named after the force of creation according to Jewish Mysiticism.
2) His entire goal was to allow the planet to continue existing. He understood this life is transitory, he was not killing everyone, he was making them perform a change of state that would keep us from killing the planet which WOULD kill everyone permanently. Why am I supposed to side with Cloud, who sucks as a person, or any of the rest of the gang, who also kind of suck as people? *not as in they are bad people, they are just ineffective, short-sighted, and non-thinking as individuals, yes they can rough stuff up but that's the making of a thug not a hero*

Also Grendel from Beowulf, he just wanted some peace and quiet.

 

[Metalix Knightmare]

I've actually never fallen for a "Draco in leatherpants" as the trope is called.

But I will say one thing. Quaritch. Quaritch, Quaritch, Quaritch. Look if you've already decided to be a mass-murdering General Ripper type from the start at least do it properly. Sterilize the bloody moon (preferably with thermonuclear bombs from geostationary orbit) and then do a check if anything is posing even a minor threat. If there's still a threat continue the carpetbombing until you are 112% sure that nothing lives and then you can begin to stripmine the place.

And no I don't feel sympathy for him. I just think he did what I despise most of all. A halfarsed job.

Normally, I don't feel the need to rant this far off a topic but this needs to be said because seeing this argument pisses me off to no end:

They! Do! Not! Want! To! Wipe! Out! The! Na'vi!

They say this explicitly! Repeatedly! It would be very bad press and get the company placed under numerous sanctions and lawsuits! Again: They say this explicitly! Repeatedly! Even Quaritch doesn't want to wipe them out at first, telling Selfridge that his attack on Hometree will have minimum casualties. Even at the end, when he's gone war-whacky, he's planning to make one decisive strike to put them off attacking rather than just wiping them out.

The next person I see make this argument I will personally slap upside the head with a copy of the script.

 

[Kargathia]

Well, most of the bad guys in Quentin Tarantinos films, but that is propably cheating

Tarantino has extremely few "bad guys", or even "good guys". I'm also pretty sure that the more villainous the character, the more he likes them, so it'd rather violate the "you're not meant to sympathise with" thing. eg. Hans Landa - there's just no way he wasn't shooting for straight-up awesome overload.

Personal favourites would be The Colonel from Pan's Labyrinth, and Harry from In Bruges. Both are unquestionably ruthless dicks, but they at least have the honesty to take a stand, and stick with it - come what may.

Also possibly the Iranian spymaster from Body of Lies - the guy is a ruthless, backstabbing sonuvabitch, but he at least doesn't try and present himself as one of the good guys.

Normally, I don't feel the need to rant this far off a topic but this needs to be said because seeing this argument pisses me off to no end:

You're accusing Avatar of having actual common sense, and a script involving depth?

If the answer to any question about that movie is anything but "they figured it'd look awesome", or "it worked well the last 100 block-buster movies", then you're probably thinking too much already.

 

[Dfskelleton]

Actually, I sympathized a bit with AM from I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream.
I know he's a sadistic, insane computer, but I'd also be pretty mad if I was given knowledge of everything only to be locked underground and exposed to none of it for what is most likely to be all eternity.
Also, when

Spoiler

AM transforms Ted into that creature, it's really ironic, because both he and Ted are in the same sitiation; locked in the center of the planet, immobile, unable to express their hatred or pain.

Also, the Authority from RAGE has my sympathy. They want to bring order to a damaged world, and everyone hates them for it. For the most part, I only heard people complain about the Authority and how "evil" they are, I never actually saw them doing anything I would qualify as evil. In fact, I didn't even see then do ANYTHING until later on in the game. Everyone was acting as if they were some sort of overarching totalitarian presence, when really, I didn't see a trace of them in any of the cities until they came looking for me.

Another funny thing about that; the Authority didn't give a rat's ass about the Ark Survivor until some idiot in a bar ordered him to bust into one of their outposts and shoot everyone inside.

EDIT: Another one that someone else mentioned; Skeletor. He's too fun of a villain to dislike.

yeah, but the authority are trying to rule the world by snuffing out any form of a free city/country that pops up, or they rule them with large forces and surveillance systems, to the point you're being watched everywhere. lets not forget to mention they created the mutants and shut down 1000's of vault opening systems, locking the people inside. i think its safe to say we're supposed to hate them. actually, the whole senario has a capitalist vs. communist feel to it: the free world of rag-tag settlements and survivors [capitalist USA], against the communist, foreign world of the big bad authority [communist USSR].

While that may be true, the game never made that very apparent.
If only the game were to make it feel like it was MY PROBLEM. If I had, say, returned to a town full of likeable characters (another thing that RAGE had potential for and kind of missed out on), and everyone started talking really robotically and there were giant drones everywhere, and suddenly everything was covered in metal, then that would be a bit more reasonable. Yes, I guess they did do that with that one town towards the end, but that was only AFTER I had killed a ton of them, and it was only because THEY WERE LOOKING FOR ME.
Hey, they could have just shot me and left me for dead until that defibrilator kicked in.
So I know we're supposed to hate them; I just don't. RAGE doesn't do a good job of making ANYTHING feel like it's your problem, which is unnatural for an Id Software (who is my personal favorite developer) game. I respect that they tried something different, and the gameplay was really tight, but there wasn't a lot of context to anything. Maybe the hinted at RAGE 2 will feature a bit more incentive to do any of the missions, besides the fact that you can't really do anything else.

 

[Metalix Knightmare]

Galbatorix from Eragon.
Dude is hardly ever mentioned, we never actually SEE him doing anything evil. How do I know he did everything he's rumored to do? Maybe it's all just dragon rider propaganda.

Maybe he has a renegade general on the loose and that's why his minions are slaughtering villages.

(Apparently he does something evil in the final book, which I haven't read, but could probably chalk up to a nervous breakdown due to the heroes bugging him so much).

He stops Eragon trying to murder him :/
thats the big evil thing he does from what i remember.
he didnt want to die and that's evil.

OT: Jigsaw from saw.
by the 7th movie i found him the most likable character simply because he died 4 movies ago and was the only one out of all 7 m

Actually he forces Eragon and Murtagh to fight to the death. And if i remeber correctly, attempts to kill all the dragons.

He also eats the living souls of dragons to boos his own power.

 

[MrFalconfly]

Snip.

Normally, I don't feel the need to rant this far off a topic but this needs to be said because seeing this argument pisses me off to no end:

They! Do! Not! Want! To! Wipe! Out! The! Na'vi!

They say this explicitly! Repeatedly! It would be very bad press and get the company placed under numerous sanctions and lawsuits! Again: They say this explicitly! Repeatedly! Even Quaritch doesn't want to wipe them out at first, telling Selfridge that his attack on Hometree will have minimum casualties. Even at the end, when he's gone war-whacky, he's planning to make one decisive strike to put them off attacking rather than just wiping them out.

The next person I see make this argument I will personally slap upside the head with a copy of the script.

I never said he wanted to wipe them out.

I just said that he seemed like a general ripper and yet held back instead of going full psycho. Although yeah you may have a point.

 

[Metalix Knightmare]

Normally, I don't feel the need to rant this far off a topic but this needs to be said because seeing this argument pisses me off to no end:

You're accusing Avatar of having actual common sense, and a script involving depth?

If the answer to any question about that movie is anything but "they figured it'd look awesome", or "it worked well the last 100 block-buster movies", then you're probably thinking too much already.

Except that it WAS stated. It was stated numerous times. It's half the damn reason they even started the freaking Avatar project. It's the whole reason there's even a goddamn movie and not a 30 second preview for an Exterminatus!!

 

[Caligulove]

I always felt bad for Saren in Mass Effect.

First obviously, you just think he's a massive cock trying to Kill All Humans for the sake of being an asshole, but then

Spoiler: Mass Effect spoilers

On Virmire, when you talk to him- as well as every subsequent dialogue or fight with him, you see that his flagship is a living, ancient synthetic Reaper intent on destroying everything in galaxy for the sake of Synthetic Cthulhu/Eldrich Horror logic.

Not only has Saren allied himself with these Reapers, intent on doing their will for the betterment of all life in the Galaxy, but you see that he's slowly, slowly been turned into a slave- up to the point where he's absolutely assured that HE was the one in control, that every decision for the Reapers that he has made, using the Geth, finding the Conduit- all of it was the suggestion of the Reapers ticking away at his mind.

The guy was always a cock to humans, on account of being a racist- but he in his mind he thought every action was in the interest of more people than just himself. Going through life with such an alpha attitude- then admitting to one of your greatest enemies (Shepard) that he was the fool all along, working against everything he was willing to kill and be a scumbag for would have been undone by his own hand. And so (at least in my playthrough) he only had one option, to kill himself.

Prevent anything from getting worse by his own deeds.

Guy would have been a prick even if he wasn't indoctrinated- but what the last moments of that life must have felt like... must have been incredibly difficult.

 

[[REDACTED]]

Galbatorix from Eragon.
Dude is hardly ever mentioned, we never actually SEE him doing anything evil. How do I know he did everything he's rumored to do? Maybe it's all just dragon rider propaganda.

Maybe he has a renegade general on the loose and that's why his minions are slaughtering villages.

(Apparently he does something evil in the final book, which I haven't read, but could probably chalk up to a nervous breakdown due to the heroes bugging him so much).

He stops Eragon trying to murder him :/
thats the big evil thing he does from what i remember.
he didnt want to die and that's evil.

OT: Jigsaw from saw.
by the 7th movie i found him the most likable character simply because he died 4 movies ago and was the only one out of all 7 m

Actually he forces Eragon and Murtagh to fight to the death. And if i remeber correctly, attempts to kill all the dragons.

He also eats the living souls of dragons to boos his own power.

Wait... Galbatorix is the Dovahkiin? I should have known it was a bad idea to side with the Blades!

 

[averydeeadaccount]

the sith because the jedi preach balance, yet whiped out the sith for a thousand years, and are therefore inconsistant
the clones because ther`ye given no choice in becoming soldiers.
the orcs from LOTR because see clones.
the serial killer from changeling because he's the only one who smiles. seriously.

 

[Kargathia]

Except that it WAS stated. It was stated numerous times. It's half the damn reason they even started the freaking Avatar project. It's the whole reason there's even a goddamn movie and not a 30 second preview for an Exterminatus!!

Yes, it's stated, but what do you think came first? The script of a mining company trying to carefully navigate between profits and tribal rights, or "hey, let's do pocahontas. IN SPACE!"?

You're absolutely correct, but in the end it has the very definite aftertaste of Plot Convenience.

I always felt bad for Saren in Mass Effect.

First obviously, you just think he's a massive cock trying to Kill All Humans for the sake of being an asshole, but then

Spoiler: Mass Effect spoilers

On Virmire, when you talk to him- as well as every subsequent dialogue or fight with him, you see that his flagship is a living, ancient synthetic Reaper intent on destroying everything in galaxy for the sake of Synthetic Cthulhu/Eldrich Horror logic.

Not only has Saren allied himself with these Reapers, intent on doing their will for the betterment of all life in the Galaxy, but you see that he's slowly, slowly been turned into a slave- up to the point where he's absolutely assured that HE was the one in control, that every decision for the Reapers that he has made, using the Geth, finding the Conduit- all of it was the suggestion of the Reapers ticking away at his mind.

The guy was always a cock to humans, on account of being a racist- but he in his mind he thought every action was in the interest of more people than just himself. Going through life with such an alpha attitude- then admitting to one of your greatest enemies (Shepard) that he was the fool all along, working against everything he was willing to kill and be a scumbag for would have been undone by his own hand. And so (at least in my playthrough) he only had one option, to kill himself.

Prevent anything from getting worse by his own deeds.

Guy would have been a prick even if he wasn't indoctrinated- but what the last moments of that life must have felt like... must have been incredibly difficult.

I very much share the sentiment, but I do believe the question was to point out characters that weren't intended to be sympathised with - and Saren very obviously is less villain, more example of what happens when you'd turn the renegade path up to eleven.

Further excarbated by that Sovereign is the "true" villain - and he definitely isn't subtle about it.

 

[Metalix Knightmare]

Except that it WAS stated. It was stated numerous times. It's half the damn reason they even started the freaking Avatar project. It's the whole reason there's even a goddamn movie and not a 30 second preview for an Exterminatus!!

Yes, it's stated, but what do you think came first? The script of a mining company trying to carefully navigate between profits and tribal rights, or "hey, let's do pocahontas. IN SPACE!"?

You're absolutely correct, but in the end it has the very definite aftertaste of Plot Convenience.

Plot Convenience? Yes, it's just so convenient to think that people MIGHT be a little agitated at their species for committing genocide in the future. My lord, but some of the complaints for this movie makes us look WORSE than how we were actually portrayed in the damn film!

 

[spartandude]

The Sith are a big one for me. Since the Jedi's position is basically, "What is this thinking for yourself? Emotion? Pah!" and the Sith's seems to be, "I kind of like emotion to be honest." Plus there's the whole "bringing balance to the force" thing that suggests the Sith are just as valuable to the force as the Jedi. Not that Lucas would ever think that making a well thought out argument that makes his films much more mature part of the canon would be a good idea.

If you're still not understanding why I would like the Sith, this is the Jedi Code:
There is no emotion, there is peace.
There is no ignorance, there is knowledge.
There is no passion, there is serenity.
There is no chaos, there is harmony.
There is no death, there is the Force.

Whereas the Sith Code is this:
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.

The Sith one is just better.

i agree

problem is they're almost always portrayed as evil kitten-stranggling toss pots. which really sucks because if i could join the sith i would but at the same time i would still show kindness and all that good stuff

 

[Samus Aran but a man]

I always felt bad for Joffrey Baratheon.

Spoiler: Game of Thrones Spoilers

I mean, his supposed father almost beat him to death, he shows the symptoms of a personality disorder and was born simply for the mother to gain power to the throne. I can't sympathize with his actions, but I still feel bad for the guy :/

yeah in the books he has more of a character; in the show they made him irrevocably evil

 

[Nero18]

The Helghast form Killzone franchise, always felt like they were misunderstood.

 

[conmag9]

Mother Gothel from Rapunzel. Now, admittedly, she wasn't the nicest person on earth. I've only seen a few people quite so passive aggressive. But she isn't a crazed nutjob who wants to rule the world, or eat souls or something. She just wants to live. Given the relatively rapid rate of degrading her body undergoes without the rejuvenation magic Rapunzel provides, one can easily imagine the utter terror she undergoes constantly. And while yes, she did kidnap a baby, that was by no means her preferred solution. She would have been just fine with the flower and, when that was no longer an option, she she tried taking the infinitely more pragmatic option of just trying to take a clip of hair. She was forced into the situation by the rules by which the magic worked, and while it's a pretty horrifying thing to literally steal a baby from her parents, for her, the other option is worse. And honestly, with all the other emotional warfare she employed, I'm quite surprised she didn't simply ask her compassionate daughter "So you want me to die, then?" when she realized her actual parentage and tried to leave forever.

So I sympathize pretty strongly with her. I think she's a bit of an idiot on occasion (you control the kid's whole world! Why would you tell her about a day you have to go and get her a present? And why not lie about the danger of the world in a more insidious way, like there's a slow-acting plague that will horrifyingly kill you eventually if you leave the tower and my protective magic? You know, something that can't be disproved easily), but still, I get the motivation of not wanting to die.

 

[BOOM headshot65]

General Hummel from "The Rock". At the beginning of the film, they make him out like he was just a soldier who said "Screw this" over the government hiding the deaths of black ops soldiers, even from thier families. So he takes a tour group on Alcatraza hostage (but tells the elementery students to leave) and aims bio-chemical VX warheads at San Fransico. This might not count though because near the end

Spoiler: The big twist. You have been warned

It is revealed that the whole time he was bluffing and had no intention of going rouge, becoming a traitor, and even less of firing bio-chems at innoncent civilians. He did it just to get the government to listen to him. Too bad the mercs he hired to go with his marines didnt like the plan because they wouldnt get paid.

Ceaser from Fallout would also count. He actually cares about the wasteland, but he (or rather, his army) is rather brutal about it.

 

[Khazoth]

Kreia from KOTOR 2, I sortof found myself agreeing with her about how ineffectual Jedi and sith both were.

 

[darksuccubus]

That robot from Prometheus. Ironically he was more human and sympathetic than all the other people who were retards and/or dicks.