Villains you hate
- Thread starter IllumInaTIma
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Ladies and Gentlemen, cease your argument, I hold the trump card.
"What a horrifying Villain!" I hear you cry. "What fiendish capacities does this devilish foe hold?"
Well, you may be surprised to know that his primary ability is a pair of telescopic stilts which can extend to two hundred and fifty feet!
But that's not all! As if this foul extendable contraption was not enough, he is also known to carry... a gun!
In short, Stiltman is what can be found at the bottom of the barrel that you scraped off of the bottom of a bigger barrel. 0/10, would not defend world from again.
Well, you may be surprised to know that his primary ability is a pair of telescopic stilts which can extend to two hundred and fifty feet!
But that's not all! As if this foul extendable contraption was not enough, he is also known to carry... a gun!
In short, Stiltman is what can be found at the bottom of the barrel that you scraped off of the bottom of a bigger barrel. 0/10, would not defend world from again.
Whoa whoa whoa, I disagree.Ieyke said:
I suppose one could call him foolish, maybe even petulant. But not weak willed.
Remember how all of the Emperor's sons take after a particular aspect of their father? Well Lorgar takes after the Emperors great faith.
He is the embodyment of faith. He exists only to worship. And when his god (The Emperor) rejects his faith and forsakes him, he resolves to find a new god so he can continue his worship. To want to continue your faith (and to do so) in the presence of an absent or unwilling god is pretty strong willed.
He can't help but abide by his nature, if anything his turning to chaos was the Emperor's fault for creating an environment that was entirely incompatible with Lorgar's very being.
And that's why he's a good villain. His tragic existence and eventually his turning, marks one of the greatest incidences of the Emperor's fallibility. The Emperor prevented Lorgar from revering him as a god because Lorgar's legions were less ruthlessly efficient than the other legions (they stuck around on conquered planets in order to spread their faith). He disregarded the fact this left said worlds the most loyal to the Imperium and elected to humiliate and persecute Lorgar (and his legion) for their nature in favour of his flawed "Imperial Truth."
Plus it's revealed that Lorgar was subconsciously suppressing his full measure of power pre-chaos, so we'll never truly know just how powerful he was.
I didn't like him particularly when I first read "The First Heretic." But the more books I've read and the more I've learned about the W40K world the more I've come to appreciate him as a character.
Honestly?
And please, please, pleasepleaseplease don't come after me and kill me, because I legitimately DO love Tolkein- I have a well-thumbed copy of The Hobbit and Lord of the Rings, and I really like the Peter Jackson movies...
...except for Sauron.
He does NOTHING.
The Lord of the Rings movie adaptation did Saruman wonderfully, because Christopher Lee. But Sauron (disclaimer, only talking about the movie adaptation, not the original character)... he's a big evil eye. In fact, I think the only thing he ever says is "I see you." Which is a teeny bit unsettling, but honestly, I've been more startled at the Haunted Mansion in Disneyland. The only people who ever DO anything are his cronies, and while that could make him a great manipulator/corruptor Satan expy... he's not. We never SEE him do any corrupting. Apparently all he did was set up a booth outside of Mordor saying "Looking for an Exciting, Free-lance Job opportunity? Inquire Within. Free Races need not apply."
That and he's about as subtle as a Monster Truck Rally. Great villains understand subtlety and use it. He's about as subtle as Episode III Palpatine (POWWAAAAAAAH! UUUUUUNLIMITED POWWWWAAAAAAH!!!)
And please, please, pleasepleaseplease don't come after me and kill me, because I legitimately DO love Tolkein- I have a well-thumbed copy of The Hobbit and Lord of the Rings, and I really like the Peter Jackson movies...
...except for Sauron.
He does NOTHING.
The Lord of the Rings movie adaptation did Saruman wonderfully, because Christopher Lee. But Sauron (disclaimer, only talking about the movie adaptation, not the original character)... he's a big evil eye. In fact, I think the only thing he ever says is "I see you." Which is a teeny bit unsettling, but honestly, I've been more startled at the Haunted Mansion in Disneyland. The only people who ever DO anything are his cronies, and while that could make him a great manipulator/corruptor Satan expy... he's not. We never SEE him do any corrupting. Apparently all he did was set up a booth outside of Mordor saying "Looking for an Exciting, Free-lance Job opportunity? Inquire Within. Free Races need not apply."
That and he's about as subtle as a Monster Truck Rally. Great villains understand subtlety and use it. He's about as subtle as Episode III Palpatine (POWWAAAAAAAH! UUUUUUNLIMITED POWWWWAAAAAAH!!!)
General Shepard from modern warfare 2. Basically, his who,e motivation is "I'm going to start a war with the Russians because racism" no Shepard, you're not a decent or even threatening villain. You're a colossal wanker with an army of goons to hide behind. And if this imbecile had kept his hateboner for everything east of Europe in his pants, MW3 wouldn't have happened. So they threw a jingoistic nutcase in there to mess with things just so they could tack another story onto the franchise that should be dead.
Kai Leng from ME3: Already brought up, but I'll throw my voice into the choir of hate. The guy was a character so thin he could have turned invisible by turning 90 degrees to you, no cloaking device needed! "Oh, he's a biotic cyber ninja who totally kicks ass and wins all the time!". Shepard has more badass in her right foot than that guy has in his whole body. He's overpowered in cutscenes and only manages to do anything because the plot needs him to. His actual fight is meh (except for a few burns you fling his way, which made me smile. "I'm not the one who's always running" indeed!). It's a shame really, because I like the Illusive Man for the most part as an interesting (if sometimes odd) take on antagonists.
The Bloody Kid from ME3: Now, I know what some of you may be thinking. "The kid was a victim, how was he a villain?". I knew, the moment I laid eyes on him, that he was going to die horribly and it was going to be an overblown attempt at poignancy. And lo and behold, it was. The little dream sequences were to me more annoying than any of the fights, so I'll put him down as a psychological antagonist, even if he managed it posthumously. Then of course there's the Catalyst picking his form. And Shepard's supposed to feel bad about him? Shepard, who at this point may have sacrificed hundreds of thousands to save the galaxy, is supposed to feel bad about this? Sure, watching someone die up close is more harrowing, but she's a solider! With a LOT of experience! I don't see her having dreams of Jenkins or the Vermire Non-survivor. I dislike the clumsy way it was supposed to tug at my heartstrings. And it's really easy to get my empathy too.
Autum from Fallout 3: While I have plenty of loathing for him as a character (the death scene of James actually hit me pretty hard), I'm also annoyed by his bullshit survival and lack of closure. This is the guy who's made out as the final boss, but I'm fairly certain mooks are stronger than him by the time you fight him. Just some asshole in a coat and an unsatisfying fight. I don't mind non-combat villains, but they should have more satisfying endings than that. His death in the radiation he stupidly unleashed the first time would have been just fine, thanks.
Orsino from Dragon Age 2: Not necessarily a villain throughout most of the game, and actually an acceptable one if you take the Templar path at the end. But since I take the Mage path every time, his going over the edge in a fight we were winning easily just bugs me. You needed another boss fight? Send someone who actually makes sense. Cullen, perhaps, or even an early stage fight with Meredeth herself before she goes all One Winged Angel.
The Wise One from Golden Sun: Another "not actually a villain, really", but he gets a moment at the end of the Lost Age. Want to test people to ensure they're strong enough to have Alchemy released back into the world? Sensible. The method? What? All he's proved is that they're dangerous in combat and possibly sociopaths given who the final boss was. And more to the point, why would you pin the entire judgement of humanity's worthiness on that tiny group of very extraordinary (and thus non-indicitive) group of people? I love Golden Sun to pieces, and I'll admit a portion of my dislike of the Wise One stems from my enjoyment of Alex, but still, dumb move Wise One.
Seymour from Final Fantasy X: Not for the usual reasons though. What bugs me the most is that his plan makes zero sense even from his brain-dead position of "death=peace, so let's kill everyone". When people die in Final Fantasy X, one of three things happens. One, they are sent to the Farplane. This is the only way Seymour's idea could have made the tiniest bit of sense. But nobody lives to do the sending, so that's out for the most part. Two, people's souls become fiends. Who will likely fight, die, and then be remade into different fiends, perpetuating the cycle of violence and making his "peace" even more violent than Spira's current existence. Three, people become Unsent, but Sin or all the fiends will eventually kill them so it's back to the other two (by which I mean, actually only one) option.
The Bloody Kid from ME3: Now, I know what some of you may be thinking. "The kid was a victim, how was he a villain?". I knew, the moment I laid eyes on him, that he was going to die horribly and it was going to be an overblown attempt at poignancy. And lo and behold, it was. The little dream sequences were to me more annoying than any of the fights, so I'll put him down as a psychological antagonist, even if he managed it posthumously. Then of course there's the Catalyst picking his form. And Shepard's supposed to feel bad about him? Shepard, who at this point may have sacrificed hundreds of thousands to save the galaxy, is supposed to feel bad about this? Sure, watching someone die up close is more harrowing, but she's a solider! With a LOT of experience! I don't see her having dreams of Jenkins or the Vermire Non-survivor. I dislike the clumsy way it was supposed to tug at my heartstrings. And it's really easy to get my empathy too.
Autum from Fallout 3: While I have plenty of loathing for him as a character (the death scene of James actually hit me pretty hard), I'm also annoyed by his bullshit survival and lack of closure. This is the guy who's made out as the final boss, but I'm fairly certain mooks are stronger than him by the time you fight him. Just some asshole in a coat and an unsatisfying fight. I don't mind non-combat villains, but they should have more satisfying endings than that. His death in the radiation he stupidly unleashed the first time would have been just fine, thanks.
Orsino from Dragon Age 2: Not necessarily a villain throughout most of the game, and actually an acceptable one if you take the Templar path at the end. But since I take the Mage path every time, his going over the edge in a fight we were winning easily just bugs me. You needed another boss fight? Send someone who actually makes sense. Cullen, perhaps, or even an early stage fight with Meredeth herself before she goes all One Winged Angel.
The Wise One from Golden Sun: Another "not actually a villain, really", but he gets a moment at the end of the Lost Age. Want to test people to ensure they're strong enough to have Alchemy released back into the world? Sensible. The method? What? All he's proved is that they're dangerous in combat and possibly sociopaths given who the final boss was. And more to the point, why would you pin the entire judgement of humanity's worthiness on that tiny group of very extraordinary (and thus non-indicitive) group of people? I love Golden Sun to pieces, and I'll admit a portion of my dislike of the Wise One stems from my enjoyment of Alex, but still, dumb move Wise One.
Seymour from Final Fantasy X: Not for the usual reasons though. What bugs me the most is that his plan makes zero sense even from his brain-dead position of "death=peace, so let's kill everyone". When people die in Final Fantasy X, one of three things happens. One, they are sent to the Farplane. This is the only way Seymour's idea could have made the tiniest bit of sense. But nobody lives to do the sending, so that's out for the most part. Two, people's souls become fiends. Who will likely fight, die, and then be remade into different fiends, perpetuating the cycle of violence and making his "peace" even more violent than Spira's current existence. Three, people become Unsent, but Sin or all the fiends will eventually kill them so it's back to the other two (by which I mean, actually only one) option.
Loki. He's one of the weakest villains I've ever seen, and they shoehorn him into EVERYTHING. He's not threatening physically, and he's not even that smart. His brother can beat him down, and Stark can out think him. At what point was I supposed to feel intimidated during The Avengers? It was an ensemble film, and virtually any of the characters could kill him one-on-one. Even Captain America.
Also, Kefka. He's gotten a lot of love from Sephiroth haters, but if we're fair Kefka is a pretty shitty villain. He's not that intimidating, and his character arc and motivation is terrible (something something crazy). He's basically a Saturday morning cartoon villain.
Also, Kefka. He's gotten a lot of love from Sephiroth haters, but if we're fair Kefka is a pretty shitty villain. He's not that intimidating, and his character arc and motivation is terrible (something something crazy). He's basically a Saturday morning cartoon villain.
To be fair I was never sure whether we were supposed to take him seriously. The game itself always seemed to take the wind out of his sails, and he kept fucking up. He ran away from CAPTAIN BAILEY for heavens sake. Sure, Garrus and Shephard he can handle, but heaven forbid a wounded Bailey and two C-sec officers arrive...Laggyteabag said:
I hate to see racists as villains. Not because I agree with their ideologies, but because it's such a lazy cop-out on the writers' part. They aren't given realistic motivations, we're just supposed to accept them as villains because any racist is basically Hitler, and why would you want any rational reason to kill Hitler? He's Hitler!
It gets even more annoying if your space racists have some legitimate grievances about past deeds of other races, but hey! They're racists! Of course they're deserving of hate! (unless space racists also fill the role of "mistreated space savages", then they will have a collective change of heart at the end and lose their racism forever).
This sometimes expands to "any group the writer considers irrational", which might include people of different political or religious views. Why should they have any motivation? They're irrational! The villains in Greg Egan's Schild's Ladder were extremely annoying in that regard:
Yeah, I'm exaggerating a bit, but I really don't like the entire "this character holds different political views than I do, therefore they're irrational, therefore I don't need to come up with rational motivations fo their actions" school of thought.
It gets even more annoying if your space racists have some legitimate grievances about past deeds of other races, but hey! They're racists! Of course they're deserving of hate! (unless space racists also fill the role of "mistreated space savages", then they will have a collective change of heart at the end and lose their racism forever).
This sometimes expands to "any group the writer considers irrational", which might include people of different political or religious views. Why should they have any motivation? They're irrational! The villains in Greg Egan's Schild's Ladder were extremely annoying in that regard:
- And then people who only got a minor mention in the book so far show up and BLOW UP THE RESEARCH BASE!!
- Why?
- Because... Because THEY HATE PROGRESS!!
- But why?
- Because... They power their rockets with fossil fuels and pollute the environment!!
- But... why?
- Because... THEY HATE PROGRESS!!
- Why?
- Because... Because THEY HATE PROGRESS!!
- But why?
- Because... They power their rockets with fossil fuels and pollute the environment!!
- But... why?
- Because... THEY HATE PROGRESS!!
Yeah, I'm exaggerating a bit, but I really don't like the entire "this character holds different political views than I do, therefore they're irrational, therefore I don't need to come up with rational motivations fo their actions" school of thought.
The bloke that Christopher Eccleston played in Thor 2. I can't even remember his name, he was that unremarkable. A lot of people have brought up Loki on this thread, but for all of his flaws, I would argue that at least Loki has coherent motivations and is well acted and characterised. The baddie from Thor 2 was just a generic evil doomsday guy, which is doubly bad when most modern super hero movies have been making an effort with their villains.
I'm mainly just bitter because Eccleston chose to do this instead of the Doctor Who anniversary special, but it still doesn't change how bad the portrayal was.
I'm mainly just bitter because Eccleston chose to do this instead of the Doctor Who anniversary special, but it still doesn't change how bad the portrayal was.
Hugo strange was pretty crap I must say, just a less interesting scarecrow with an annoying voice.
And while I dont HATE him, I never ever ever got what was so great about ganondorf.
Devin Weston from GTAV, while he was a convincing dick, I didnt see why I was supposed to hate him SO much, and I kept getting him confused with steve haines, they literally have the same voice.
And while I dont HATE him, I never ever ever got what was so great about ganondorf.
Devin Weston from GTAV, while he was a convincing dick, I didnt see why I was supposed to hate him SO much, and I kept getting him confused with steve haines, they literally have the same voice.
The guy who looked like Jermaine Clement in Dead Space 3. The game had a lot of flaws but this guy especially sucks as after two games setting up the unitologists as this mysterious Scientology style cult that wields massive influence on all levels of society and is made up of a majority of presumably decent but naive people who genuinely believe the story of their faiths foundation as its told and want so badly for the markers to save them,we get Danik, that's his name. A bland megalomaniac with no motivation beyond being a crazy fundamentalist who just wants to kill everyone and then himself because of god or whatever, he liked to strut and blather on about himself yet I still have no idea what his plan was or why he was doing any of this or why his followers were even following him.
I didn't hate him because of his unreasonable hate or cruelty, I hated him because there was never a point where I felt like he was a person he was a plot device because its convenient conflict to have you struggle to restore power to the whatever only to have the game take control away from me so that some dick could laugh at me at and explain that he cut the power because his religion is opposed to everything at all times. As an antagonist he was less a dark mirror to the protagonist and more like a kid flipping you off from the backseat of the car.
I didn't hate him because of his unreasonable hate or cruelty, I hated him because there was never a point where I felt like he was a person he was a plot device because its convenient conflict to have you struggle to restore power to the whatever only to have the game take control away from me so that some dick could laugh at me at and explain that he cut the power because his religion is opposed to everything at all times. As an antagonist he was less a dark mirror to the protagonist and more like a kid flipping you off from the backseat of the car.