#violenceisviolence video potentially a fraud

[WindKnight]

There's a video going around purporting to show the differences in how people react to domestic violence depending on whether the incident is male attacking female, or female attacking male, with people rushing to help a female victim, while laughing at a male victim.

Its looking though that the video is possibly a fraud, with the use of manipulative editing to suggest occurrences and reactions happening at times they did not.

The first incident looks to have been combined from at least two separate incidents filmed at three different times. Also, many of the 'reaction shots' - including all the shots of people laughing - do not take place in the same frame as the fighting couple, and some are clearly filmed at different times of day than the actual incident, or even the other reaction shots.

http://wehuntedthemammoth.com/2014/05/30/is-the-mankind-initiatives-violenceisviolence-video-a-fraud/

http://blogs.elpais.com/autopsia/2014/05/los-tramposos-y-su-v%C3%ADdeo-trampa-hombres-al-borde-de-un-ataque-de-nervios.html (this page is in spanish, but provides the basis for the first)

 

[PsychicTaco115]

See, it's stuff like this that makes people wary of supporting causes like this...

Can't we all agree that domestic violence is bad towards ANYONE and work from there?

 

[Hagi]

I'd say there's about a 90% chance the video is manipulated to best support it's point and to cut out any possible inconsistencies.

That's really how pretty 'awareness' videos like that work, of all kinds.

What it describes is quite real though, a simple search on Google Scholar or your local university's network for articles on Domestic Violence should show a general trend that as far as victims go the focus is primarily on women and as far as perpetrators go the focus is primarily on men.

The only problem is that it's a general trend with plenty of exceptions, subtleties and complexities. And those don't make for pretty 'awareness' videos.

And I personally think that's fine, anyone who takes a 2-minute YouTube video as some kind of cold-hard fact really isn't going to have the patience to dive into the complex context surrounding these issues. So given that all these videos will never really provide an accurate impression you might as well make it a good impression as long as it still has some basis in truth.

 

[Erttheking]

*Looks up* Why is it I get the feeling that because of misrepresentation like this, people are just going to stop caring about these kinds of issues all together? Come on guys, are you really going to let a few bad apples spoil an entire harvest?

 

[Signa]

Staged or not, it doesn't make it any less true. I felt quite a bit more uncomfortable watching the male violence than the female. Knowing what I know, the female violence was nothing to laugh at like the crowd was shown as, but that still means that violence is still violence, whether males or females are the perpetrators.

 

[WindKnight]

Staged or not, it doesn't make it any less true. I felt quite a bit more uncomfortable watching the male violence than the female. Knowing what I know, the female violence was nothing to laugh at like the crowd was shown as, but that still means that violence is still violence, whether males or females are the perpetrators.

Their aim with the video is to say that everybody ran to help when the victim was female, and did nothing to help the male victim and actually mocked him. The implication behind the editing is they possibly needed 2-3 runs to get one where the female victim was helped, and those people shown laughing at the man may well have been laughing at something else entirely.

Whilst the issue of male domestic violence is important, and needs to be discussed, they way the video sets it out (and has been edited to do so) comes across a little too much like 'look, mens are the real victims!'.

 

[DailonCmann]

I'm not sure why anyone needs to respond to feminism by saying, "Oh yeah, well men get hurt too! Your movement is wrong because it excludes men." Feminism is about making women as equal as men, not removing rights from men. I just feel that this video is yet another knee-jerk reaction from people who feel the "boy's club" is under siege. Who cares whether it's real or not? Also, I assume the 40% statistic comes from the U.K., because in America it's 85% of spousal abuse victims are female and 15% are men.

http://www.statisticbrain.com/domestic-violence-abuse-stats/

 

[generals3]

"The point of this blog is to expose misogynists and other terrible people by quoting the hateful things they say. ".

Well, it will be hard for me to take anything from such a site seriously to begin with.

But, it wouldn't surprise me there was some cherry picking going on to further emphasize on the gap. But the double standard is pretty easy to observe. There are sufficient stories of heavily abused men who had a hard time getting help because they weren't taken seriously or who ended being suspects because "they're men". You can even find amateur videos on youtube showing women attacking men and people doing nothing and jumping on him if he has the nerve to actually not let himself getting abused (one i saw involved cops doing that). Anyway the ultimate message of the video remains one that has to be passed on: violence is violence and currently it is not seen as such.

I'm not sure why anyone needs to respond to feminism by saying, "Oh yeah, well men get hurt too! Your movement is wrong because it excludes men." Feminism is about making women as equal as men, not removing rights from men. I just feel that this video is yet another knee-jerk reaction from people who feel the "boy's club" is under siege. Who cares whether it's real or not? Also, I assume the 40% statistic comes from the U.K., because in America it's 85% of spousal abuse victims are female and 15% are men.

Saying "violence is violence" is a knee jerk reaction? I guess anything that deviates from the standard feminism approved message is a knee jerk reaction?

 

[Signa]

they way the video sets it out (and has been edited to do so) comes across a little too much like 'look, mens are the real victims!'.

I don't know how you took it that way. It was showing the double standard, and that violence is violence, as they have named themselves. They didn't start #mengetbatteredtoo.

 

[WindKnight]

But, it wouldn't surprise me there was some cherry picking going on to further emphasize on the gap. But the double standard is pretty easy to observe. There are sufficient stories of heavily abused men who had a hard time getting help because they weren't taken seriously or who ended being suspects because "they're men". You can even find amateur videos on youtube showing women attacking men and people doing nothing and jumping on him if he has the nerve to actually not let himself getting abused (one i saw involved cops doing that). Anyway the ultimate message of the video remains one that has to be passed on: violence is violence and currently it is not seen as such.

And theres also plenty of cases where women were murdered by their current/former partner because the police wouldn't take them seriously... in the UK on average 2 women a week die at the hands of their current or former partner.

 

[SKBPinkie]

Just...what the fuck happened to this website?

Seriously - when will we realize that the internet is not a suitable platform to discuss this topic. Nothing good ever comes out of it. Stop.

Just. Fucking. Stop.

 

[generals3]

And theres also plenty of cases where women were murdered by their current/former partner because the police wouldn't take them seriously... in the UK on average 2 women a week die at the hands of their current or former partner.

And there is a huge difference between the cops not taking death threats (which very often are empty) seriously and taking someone's claim regarding abuse seriously while he's standing there, in front of them, filled with traces of violence. Actually since the person, who wrote a book about it, i have in mind even ended up being considered the suspect (mind he was the only one with traces of abuse on his body) it goes far further than not being taken seriously. There is an assumption of guilt based on the possession of a penis.

 

[DailonCmann]

"The point of this blog is to expose misogynists and other terrible people by quoting the hateful things they say. ".

Well, it will be hard for me to take anything from such a site seriously to begin with.

But, it wouldn't surprise me there was some cherry picking going on to further emphasize on the gap. But the double standard is pretty easy to observe. There are sufficient stories of heavily abused men who had a hard time getting help because they weren't taken seriously or who ended being suspects because "they're men". You can even find amateur videos on youtube showing women attacking men and people doing nothing and jumping on him if he has the nerve to actually not let himself getting abused (one i saw involved cops doing that). Anyway the ultimate message of the video remains one that has to be passed on: violence is violence and currently it is not seen as such.

I'm not sure why anyone needs to respond to feminism by saying, "Oh yeah, well men get hurt too! Your movement is wrong because it excludes men." Feminism is about making women as equal as men, not removing rights from men. I just feel that this video is yet another knee-jerk reaction from people who feel the "boy's club" is under siege. Who cares whether it's real or not? Also, I assume the 40% statistic comes from the U.K., because in America it's 85% of spousal abuse victims are female and 15% are men.

Saying "violence is violence" is a knee jerk reaction? I guess anything that deviates from the standard feminism approved message is a knee jerk reaction?

There isn't a double standard because this isn't even the same problem. Dealing with abuse for men and dealing with abuse for women require two completely different solutions. All this video serves to do is divide people in to two camps, man vs women, feminist vs masculinist, for seeming no reason other than people want thing to be black and white because then things are easier.

 

[Signa]

Just...what the fuck happened to this website?

Seriously - when will we realize that the internet is not a suitable platform to discuss this topic. Nothing good ever comes out of it. Stop.

Just. Fucking. Stop.

I wish I knew man, I wish I knew. I saw another '08 banned the other day. I'm a rare breed around here because everyone else was forced away one way or another.

 

[DevilWithaHalo]

Wait... let me get this straight... you're complaining that a *video* was *edited* in a way that directly illustrates the overall point they were attempting to make, and your basis for this is that there are multiple camera's being used and showing different times of the day... which makes it fraudulent?

What?

Let's ignore for the moment the point of the video was to illustrate basic stereotypical concepts of perceptions of violence between men and women.

Let's ignore for the moment that another hidden cam show demonstrated the same effect earlier than this.

Let's ignore for the moment that you can find a growing number of video evidences for this particular phenomenon on youtube.

Let's ignore for the moment that they had to condense, who know how much footage, into a few minute PSA video.

Let's ignore for the moment that you can't successfully stage something like this by replicating the situation every 15 minutes in public, in the exact same place... with potentially the exact same people in said public space.

Let's ignore for the moment that we're discussing a fundamental idea, not the individual situations depicted with every individual attempt by the actors to do their part, which would in turn be pointlessly picked apart by critiques.

Let's ignore for the moment that it wasn't saying "men are the real victims", but simply that men "can be victims", and our perceptions of that need to change because we aren't collectively recognizing it as a problem.

No no, it's a *fraud*, or potentially a *fraud* because the raw video was... edited.

...I have to say... this is a new low.

 

[generals3]

There isn't a double standard because this isn't even the same problem. Dealing with abuse for men and dealing with abuse for women require two completely different solutions. All this video serves to do is divide people in to two camps, man vs women, feminist vs masculinist, for seeming no reason other than people want thing to be black and white because then things are easier.

No they don't. Both need to be handled exactly the same way. By providing support to the victims and by locking up the abusers to teach them what they do is wrong and to protect potential future victims from them.

And what the video shows is currently there is a clear lack of support for male victims.

 

[WindKnight]

Let's ignore for the moment that it wasn't saying "men are the real victims", but simply that men "can be victims", and our perceptions of that need to change because we aren't collectively recognizing it as a problem.

No no, it's a *fraud*, or potentially a *fraud* because the raw video was... edited.

...I have to say... this is a new low.

the editing on the first incident with the female victim combines footage shot at three differant times of day, with the specific footage of the women receiving aid coming from just one of these shoots. Potentially they put together footage from three staged attempts, and only used reaction footage from the one time the woman was helped in an attempt to say 'women are always helped'. Furthermore the cutaway reaction shots are also shot at different times, with at times obvious differences in weather and shadows - reactions supposed to occur within seconds of each other occurred some time apart. The same occurs with the cutaways of people 'laughing at the man'. Rather than laughing at the man, they could be laughing at a clown or pratfalls. No-one in shot with the couple when the man is victimized are laughing.

 

[DevilWithaHalo]

the editing on the first incident with the female victim combines footage shot at three differant times of day, with the specific footage of the women receiving aid coming from just one of these shoots. Potentially they put together footage from three staged attempts, and only used reaction footage from the one time the woman was helped in an attempt to say 'women are always helped'. Furthermore the cutaway reaction shots are also shot at different times, with at times obvious differences in weather and shadows - reactions supposed to occur within seconds of each other occurred some time apart. The same occurs with the cutaways of people 'laughing at the man'. Rather than laughing at the man, they could be laughing at a clown or pratfalls. No-one in shot with the couple when the man is victimized are laughing.

It doesn't matter, because you're not arguing against the point; you're arguing against the video. PSA's are designed to be short and to the point. Why on earth would I waste 9 minutes of your time showing non-reactionary shots if they don't detract from the point I'm making by editing my video to 1 minute to demonstrate the point?! Why would I show you straight video if it takes the public 5 minutes to act on the actors portrayal?

I'm willing to grant you that not all the footage was indicative of the point. Maybe some of the responses were something completely unexpected, like no one interfering either way (which would be my educated guess). But what are you actually arguing for here? That the video is incomplete? That people *may* have actually helped the male? That people didn't *always* help the woman?

You're putting a lot of personal perception into the intended message of the video, while... not actually(?) arguing against the point of the video (sort of)... so I'm not sure what you're doing? Complaining that a video was edited? That it wasn't edited in a way you liked? That it didn't show all the boring parts? That it wasn't 16hours long?

 

[DudeistBelieve]

No shit it's doctored. How many of us actually would become Batman in a violent situation?

You call the cops like a normal human being.

Just...what the fuck happened to this website?

Seriously - when will we realize that the internet is not a suitable platform to discuss this topic. Nothing good ever comes out of it. Stop.

Just. Fucking. Stop.

Well there you have it folks. SKBPinkie has declared the conversation pointless! EVERYBODY GO HOME! NOTHING TO SEE HERE!