I wouldn't want to be with anyone violent, I don't see it as a good trait in men or women. I go to lengths to avoid violent people. I prefer everyone to be passive, so I can mind my own business.
Violent women.
- Thread starter IrisEver
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It's funny. I am a very confident, aggressive person--except I'm male--and I've had at least 2 exes tell me the reason they split is because I wasn't patient, sensitive or 'caring' enough. So this doesn't strike me as a gender issue, but more about conflicting personalities.
I like my women with a bit of fire to them. That being said, I don't like them to be douchebags or obnoxious, no more than I like the same in men. I've met many women who take the whole "strong and in-your-face" thing too far and then think it justified because they are women, when that same behaviour in men would be considered extremely rude.IrisEver said:
As for the expectations, it's a complicated thing. For one thing, you use the word violent. Women are expected to be non-violent, that's true, but at the same time social norm prohibits violence toward women (to a greater degree than violence against men). And it's not just physical violence, it's agression in general - verbal agression, agressive attitude, etc.
So look at it from a male perspective - you aren't supposed to be agressive towards women, but there are women who are agressive towards you. If you respond to that agression in the same way you'd respont to a man doing the same, your behaviour will be considered inappropriate. So by and large, there is pressure on women to be less agressive to avoid such situations.
Example: You are a man. Another man walks up to you and punches you in the face. You punch him back. Sure, it's not a pretty situation, but you would likely be considered justified in your actions. Now, a woman walks up to you and punches you in the face. What do you do? Punch her? Congrats, you are now a prime target for every feminist in the world.
I agree that double standards should be done away with, but if you're fighting against double standards, make sure you're fighting against ALL double standars, even those that benefit you.
Then those feminists are idiots. If a woman punches you and starts something, you're free to start something back.Jandau said:
I'm far from a feminist.
Similarly, in the sort of relationship I'd want, if I jumped my man while walking past him, I wouldn't want him to just back down.
That's nice of you. It really is. But you asked why society behaves a certain way, I just supplied the answer. I agree with you, by the way, as far as the punching scenario goes. However, a lot of people, male and female, do not. The attitude expected of men/women and toward men/women is fairly deeply encoded into the general western culture. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, just saying that's how it is.IrisEver said:
I do think that if there's a social stigma against agressive behavior towards a certain group there should also be a stigma against agression by the members of that group to balance it out. And if one is to be phased out, the other should be as well.
Fortunately, things seem to be progressing in that general direction. Social change tends to be slow, but it happens. I'm pretty sure that in a decade or two I'll be able to punch women and nobody will bat an eyelash!
I have no problem with a woman being out there and herself. I dont like the stereotype girlfriend either, the one that just follows you and does what you do. However, I don't like it when a woman, or anyone for that matter, acts aggresive towards me, whether it be over a dispute or a disagreement. My outlook on life is that aggression and violence are not needed in a relationship, if you can't talk out your problems in a calm way with those you love, the obviously your with the wrong person.
I spent half my young life dealing with tougher-than-average women. Probably because I don't feel comfortable around people weaker physically than me - usually I was afraid I'd hurt them by accident.
Except when a girl thinks swearing + smoking = aggressive. Sorry, nope. It's called weak-minded.
Except when a girl thinks swearing + smoking = aggressive. Sorry, nope. It's called weak-minded.
That's interesting. I actually agree that simply 'swearing and smoking' doesn't mean aggressive. But I'll have to disagree that they're necessarily weak minded. Well, smoking is if you're addicted and complain about being addicted. But smoking also has zero to do with aggression.Abedeus said:
Swear words are just sounds that we've applied intense and passionate meaning to as a culture. They're not inherently wrong or the sign of a weak person. If it's all their vocabulary consists of, then I see where you're coming from. But the odd word of anger or passion? Nope. Not the sign of an aggressive or assertive person, but I don't think swear words necessarily take anything away from a personality as long as it's not "Jeremy Kyle guest" level.
Why didn't you just say "tough" or something similar instead of "violent"? "Violent women" sounds like the beginning of a troll, and the way you refuted didn't help that much.IrisEver said:
Welcome to western society-- some would say it's more universal, and there are difficulties in arguing with that.IrisEver said:
Genetics, upbringing, society, reinforcement by peers, reinforcement by women, who knows. You're probably not going to change it single-handedly so you should find someone who understands you.IrisEver said:
It's sensible to avoid "quite aggressive" people, male or female.
You say "But I like violence (as play in a relationship, or as a happy relationship dynamic)." I wonder, does this mean you strike your partner?
No-one would put up with a man being violent with his girlfriend; why do you suppose they should put up with a woman desiring to be violent with a spouse?
You're not going to find a whole lot of people who find violence to be acceptable in any case other than self-defense.
You say "But I like violence (as play in a relationship, or as a happy relationship dynamic)." I wonder, does this mean you strike your partner?
No-one would put up with a man being violent with his girlfriend; why do you suppose they should put up with a woman desiring to be violent with a spouse?
You're not going to find a whole lot of people who find violence to be acceptable in any case other than self-defense.
