Indeed. Except penises are not keys and vaginas are not locks, so I don't really see what the point of your statement is. Perhaps you're in the wrong thread?SecretNegative said:
"Virgin shaming": I know we have a lot of "but what about men's problems?" people out there.
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Ah, so he's either misunderstanding OP's point or running a strawman.Matthew94 said:
Of course, somebody who unthinkingly subscribes to a sexist belief isn't (necessarily) a horrible misogynist person any more than someone who isn't 100% up to date on current events isn't (necessarily) completely ignorant about everything. However, we can all agree that it would be nice if our society was as equal and well-informed as possible, and that jumping down other people's throats for bringing up areas of sexism and ignorance isn't productive.
I think morons can wrap their heads around stuff like homosexuality, because you can explain it like "Okay, y'know how you like the opposite gender? Imagine that, but with the same gender!" which is a relatively easy concept to grasp. However, with asexuality they have to imagine the absence of attraction, which is probably more difficult.Kahunaburger said:
It was a terrible, old, recycled joke which not only has already been posted in this thread, but is not remotely amusing. Try to keep that in mind before regurgitating stupid analogies that add nothing to the discussion.SecretNegative said:
You would get points if you had thought of the bad joke yourself, but I can't even give you that much credit.
Know where you came from. It would be pretty stupid to not go over one of the first psychologists' theories in varying depths at various degree levels.Ricky 49 said:
Philosophy is outside the realm of modern psychology, specifically of the research variety, so I can't comment on that. And any influence Freud has on modern research is after psychoanalysts tinkered with his theories to actually make them scientific and testable. One of the biggest criticisms of Freud's theories, and of psychoanalysis for awhile, was that it was impossible to test using the scientific method, though one can't really hold that against him on a personal level considering the limitations of the times.
He published psychology books like Project for a Scientific Psychology and had regular discussions with his followers on the subject as well as contemporaries. Though I guess the latter isn't "writing", though his letter correspondences are well known.
Psychoanalysis is one facet of modern psychology. Modern psychology is made up of multiple disciplines ranging from neuro-cognition, research, environment, evolutionary, social, etc etc etc. There are elements of cooperation and competitiveness between the different schools of thought, but having as many disciplines as there are shouldn't be surprising considering how incredibly young psychology is.
I can't say anything about Freud's personality, but it wasn't uncommon for awhile in the beginning for psychology to go through "revolutionary changes" every decade and a half with a huge paradigm shift that lasted until the next one. Thus is the curse of being a new discipline.
I'm not saying Freud is completely useless in the modern age. There are certain lessons to be learned from him(though often people learn the wrong lessons). I AM saying that his theories can't be presented as fact or relevant today in explaining phenomenon. His theories were either untestable or later changed to make them testable and then discarded as false or developed and changed to such an extent that they became new theories in their own right. This is not unique to Freud by the way. You have to expect this of the first people in a brand new field who are essentially shooting in the dark.
Ok I tried to read through all the posts, couldn't focus to read by the 4th page, from what I can see, most people here have found "virgin shaming" to almost not exist, and the OP arguing with people defending a feminist agenda...
So is this thread a feminist agenda pusher or really about guys being shamed because they are virgins, I'll tell you I lost my virginity at the age of 24, and the first woman I had sex with was misdiagnosed, and gave me genital herpes, un-fun, good sex though...
Anyhow, I would like to point out that a lot of today's feminist agenda is rather... Mispercieved, there are many different kinds of feminists, with views and beliefs that range from rational to insane, as with anyone who prescribes to any viewpoint, there is a broad spectrum of variance there.
However, to put in personal experience, in almost every job I've had in almost every field, women have held the most power, and been payed more than men... so maybe I'm missing something here, also when you look at the REASON men "dominate" certain fields and try to keep women out is kind of a biological defense mechanism to keep them safe(see the military), women also have the power to choose their mates and are generally more attracted to successful men, and men are generally driven by a desire to win affection from their peers and women, now when you think, "blarg blarg blarg, male patriarchy is causing all our problems, blarg." try to think "But those men, they're building their empires, conquering their neighbours, and gathering wealth and power, FOR WOMEN."
Now of course there are always people with a "thing" for dominance in life, and those people will do anything for the sake of control for control's sake, but I'm not talking about them.
If you look back at our race's history, we've only lived in a modern enough society to have the kind of personal freedom we have four a couple hundred years, prior to that, men had to take control of everything to sacrifice themselves in the protection of women, for the sake of the survival of our species, wouldn't do much good for our ability to produce offspring if we sent all our women off to war to die now would it? Also take a look at how the required man/woman ratio is balanced for the purpose of repopulation, you need a TON of women... and like a handful of men. We men are disposable, we always have been, and the reason we may get a little pissy about threats to our positions of power within the system is that THAT IS ALL WE HAVE LEFT. We are judged by what we accomplish not by who we are, women get an easy ride in life by comparison, as all they have to do is exist and survive, to be desired by a man, and thus provided for by one. Sure they get payed less on a huge sweeping scale taking in the proffits of way over payed execs, but when you get down to the small scale stuff, most men will instinctually sacrifice themselves and their entire life for the sake of a woman, especially if she has a child, and the opposite is not true by any standard, nobody would choose to save my life, or that of any not politically or otherwise powerful mans life, over that of a woman, I'm just one of billions of men, I may be a great guy, I may have a lot going for me in the personality area, but I'm not vital, and an equally employed/trained/educated woman, is still worth twice as much as I am, because some day she might be used to produce another human life, the best I can hope for as a man(who is not in power) is a death that counts in some way as a meaningful sacrifice.
You wanna argue whether feminists are fighting a war for the benefit of women? I will point out that most of our lives as men is spent towards making life livable for women, and all we get for it is an attack at how we aren't giving up everything all the time for women.
Back when our society was more warlike, more survival oriented, the whole male dominated society worked perfectly, because who wants to die? And who better to fight and die than the men.
Now our "advancement" as a society has put us in a position where we either dominate bywhatever means we can muster, or be replaced by women in every role outside of sperm production.
Ever wonder why a lot of men dislike the feminist agenda?
There it is, I think I've summed it up pretty well for you.
Cheers, from a man who is a useless disposable living impregnation device, knows it, and doesn't give two shits about the reality he faces,
DoomyMcDoom
So is this thread a feminist agenda pusher or really about guys being shamed because they are virgins, I'll tell you I lost my virginity at the age of 24, and the first woman I had sex with was misdiagnosed, and gave me genital herpes, un-fun, good sex though...
Anyhow, I would like to point out that a lot of today's feminist agenda is rather... Mispercieved, there are many different kinds of feminists, with views and beliefs that range from rational to insane, as with anyone who prescribes to any viewpoint, there is a broad spectrum of variance there.
However, to put in personal experience, in almost every job I've had in almost every field, women have held the most power, and been payed more than men... so maybe I'm missing something here, also when you look at the REASON men "dominate" certain fields and try to keep women out is kind of a biological defense mechanism to keep them safe(see the military), women also have the power to choose their mates and are generally more attracted to successful men, and men are generally driven by a desire to win affection from their peers and women, now when you think, "blarg blarg blarg, male patriarchy is causing all our problems, blarg." try to think "But those men, they're building their empires, conquering their neighbours, and gathering wealth and power, FOR WOMEN."
Now of course there are always people with a "thing" for dominance in life, and those people will do anything for the sake of control for control's sake, but I'm not talking about them.
If you look back at our race's history, we've only lived in a modern enough society to have the kind of personal freedom we have four a couple hundred years, prior to that, men had to take control of everything to sacrifice themselves in the protection of women, for the sake of the survival of our species, wouldn't do much good for our ability to produce offspring if we sent all our women off to war to die now would it? Also take a look at how the required man/woman ratio is balanced for the purpose of repopulation, you need a TON of women... and like a handful of men. We men are disposable, we always have been, and the reason we may get a little pissy about threats to our positions of power within the system is that THAT IS ALL WE HAVE LEFT. We are judged by what we accomplish not by who we are, women get an easy ride in life by comparison, as all they have to do is exist and survive, to be desired by a man, and thus provided for by one. Sure they get payed less on a huge sweeping scale taking in the proffits of way over payed execs, but when you get down to the small scale stuff, most men will instinctually sacrifice themselves and their entire life for the sake of a woman, especially if she has a child, and the opposite is not true by any standard, nobody would choose to save my life, or that of any not politically or otherwise powerful mans life, over that of a woman, I'm just one of billions of men, I may be a great guy, I may have a lot going for me in the personality area, but I'm not vital, and an equally employed/trained/educated woman, is still worth twice as much as I am, because some day she might be used to produce another human life, the best I can hope for as a man(who is not in power) is a death that counts in some way as a meaningful sacrifice.
You wanna argue whether feminists are fighting a war for the benefit of women? I will point out that most of our lives as men is spent towards making life livable for women, and all we get for it is an attack at how we aren't giving up everything all the time for women.
Back when our society was more warlike, more survival oriented, the whole male dominated society worked perfectly, because who wants to die? And who better to fight and die than the men.
Now our "advancement" as a society has put us in a position where we either dominate bywhatever means we can muster, or be replaced by women in every role outside of sperm production.
Ever wonder why a lot of men dislike the feminist agenda?
There it is, I think I've summed it up pretty well for you.
Cheers, from a man who is a useless disposable living impregnation device, knows it, and doesn't give two shits about the reality he faces,
DoomyMcDoom
Wait, what? How, exactly, does that paragraph even make any sense? He was telling the truth as far as I can make out, in general, men want sex more than women.LilithSlave said:
I felt a little bit demonized there. I was being told I have to stop using any language within feminist theory because I'm being too judgmental. Oh, and I was told that I was a man with daddy issues. I am a man.Shadie777 said:
Edit- removing a mistake I made
Well said. Whatever people's 'history' is in this regard, really isn't anyone's business but their own, it's really sad that people will abandon relationships over this kind of petty shit.
I think the problem is less that there's a lot of men who aren't 100% positive about women, and more that certain feminists -- sadly, the loudest ones -- have started doing some very silly things, and they see men who don't support those things as being just as misogynist as a man who would have refused her the right to vote. This whole slut shaming thing is a good example. Both men /and/ women are slut shamed. It is entirely possible to be so indiscriminately promiscuous that you gross people out; it's not a women's rights issue. Real women's issues these days are things like birth control, abortion, and the glass ceiling, but for some reason people don't get excited about defending the first two or attacking the third in the way they do slut shaming. You'd be hard pressed to find a man who wasn't against the glass ceiling, and anyone who was you could comfortably call a misogynist. Same thing with birth control and abortion, with the exception that it would be easier to find such a man. But slut shaming? I'm sorry if I find the prospect of someone who has had 20+ partners, who goes out every Saturday looking for some new stranger to have sex with, and is just generally not careful or respectful about sex to be a bad one. Because that's what slut shaming is about: it's not about "women who like sex," it never has been. It's about promiscuous idiots who nobody wants to catch STDs from.Kahunaburger said:
What exactly is the standard for "slut shaming"? I mean, I'm perfectly cool with chicks having healthy sexual habits, even one-night stands, if you into that kind of thing, but I'm not going to involve myself with chicks who have slept with, say, ten different guys in two weeks, or is known for cheating on her boyfriends. Of course, I think a girl is right in avoiding guys who do the same.
Me? Im virgin and, pardon the language, I don't give a f*ck about what other people think of me. One day a freaking 14 year old mocked me for admitting to being a virgin. This was five years ago. Last I heard from that kid he was having troubles raising his two kids at the age of 19. So yeah, why would I get rilled up if karma's doing its job just fine?
Me? Im virgin and, pardon the language, I don't give a f*ck about what other people think of me. One day a freaking 14 year old mocked me for admitting to being a virgin. This was five years ago. Last I heard from that kid he was having troubles raising his two kids at the age of 19. So yeah, why would I get rilled up if karma's doing its job just fine?
Considering that feminism essentially boils down the belief that people should be treated fairly regardless of gender and is therefore pretty common in our society, you're bound to have some crazy people that espouse it. The fact that some elements in society think that the beliefs of a few crazy people reflect badly on feminism is mind-boggling to me.Owyn_Merrilin said:
Actually, that's not what it is at all. http://finallyfeminism101.wordpress.com/2010/04/04/what-is-slut-shaming/Owyn_Merrilin said:
Sorry, what? I'm pretty sure you'll find people who have strong opinions on all of those issues.Owyn_Merrilin said:
The term has a specific established meaning, and if you think the term in fact means something else, expect to be confused when encountering people using the term's established meaning.Owyn_Merrilin said:
How about this for an idea, we create a massive wall around the entire world,
we put men on one side, and women on the other,
that way we will have no probelms or arguments like this were once again we run the gender
circit of what is wrong with everything and eveyone, how nothing is fair and how sterotypes have reduced everything and everyone into a huge soup of in-equality.
meet up once every 7 years for the sole purpose of reproduction like the vulcans and then close the divide again. probelm solved
we put men on one side, and women on the other,
that way we will have no probelms or arguments like this were once again we run the gender
circit of what is wrong with everything and eveyone, how nothing is fair and how sterotypes have reduced everything and everyone into a huge soup of in-equality.
meet up once every 7 years for the sole purpose of reproduction like the vulcans and then close the divide again. probelm solved
I'm saying that if feminists think that "slut shaming" is "the idea of shaming and/or attacking a woman or a girl for being sexual, having one or more sexual partners, acknowledging sexual feelings, and/or acting on sexual feelings," then they have nothing to worry about, because that's not how the word "slut" is used in western society. In Western society, the definition I gave is what actually happens. As for the rest of it, yes, you'll find people who get excited about the issues I listed. But they aren't currently the main thrust of the feminist movement; for some bizarre reason, slut shaming is.Kahunaburger said:
Edit: To further clarify, nobody is being demonized for enjoying sex the way this comment deribes. People get shamed by society for being careless about sex, but that is not at all the same thing.
I agree with you, thought my stance is a bit different. I plan on having sex eventually, I just want my first time to be with a girl that actually matters to me. I'm constantly having to shove off brainless chicks my father tries to set me up with simply because they are hot (and that's his standard of "hot", not mine) and it pisses me off. I mean, the junk is mine, so where I'm shoving it should only matter to me.Bhaalspawn said: